The Practice of Therapy

Amanda Landry_
Okay, go ahead. Well hello everybody. I'm Amanda Landry. And I am very excited to be here today on duck practice of therapy.

Gordon Brewer
Well, hello everyone and welcome again. And I'm so happy to have my old friend Amanda Landry back with me on the podcast. Amanda, how are you doing?

Amanda Landry_
I'm doing great. When you said Amanda Landry. I was like, I think when we became friends, I was still Patterson. And so many people still know me as Patterson. It's. I toggle back and forth, even now between the two last names.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes. And if I were to, I'm guessing, Amanda, we have known each other since at least 2017 or so because you're one of my first guests on the podcast, back in the early days of the podcasts, and I think you've been on it a few other times, but haven't gone back and checked. So glad. Glad you're here.

Amanda Landry_
I'm glad to be back and to be with your listeners.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes. So for folks that might not know you, as well as I do. Tell folks more about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed.

Amanda Landry_
So I am a group practice owner of a group practice with four locations were called caring therapists. I am in South Florida. And so we have locations in Davie, Fort Lauderdale, and then two locations in Wellington. So if you're wondering, I think most people know where Fort Lauderdale is. But if you don't, it's right above Miami. And then if you go about an hour north, we're in Wilmington, which is right next door to West Palm Beach. And so I think that's also a place a lot of people are familiar with. So I am in the sunshine state all the time, down here. And then I'm also a private practice consultant through my private practice collective the last time I checked, we had 18,000 members in our Facebook group, which just that is probably the one thing like I never set out to do. And the one thing that every time I see, see, it just amazes me just absolutely amazes me.

Gordon Brewer
Oh, wow. Yeah, it's, and it's, it's, it's just amazing the number of people that are really kind of gravitating to private practice. So I know you and I were chatting before we kind of got started recording just about how really now more than ever is a great time for people to go into into private practice, just because there's such a shortage of mental health providers. And, you know, working for an agency isn't for everyone. And so being able to go into private practice, and the thing that I think would be good for us to talk about Amanda is, is that there are really kind of two routes of going into private practice that I think about one is going in as a solo practitioner and starting your own practice or a group practice that kind of thing. And the other one would be to work for somebody in private practice. And I know that's been a big focus of yours here lately is really helping people that are group practice owners, kind of find the right people build the right teams and do all the logistics around that and that sort of thing. So tell folks a little bit about that.

Amanda Landry_
You know, as I get to know myself more, there's something so if anybody's in their 20s, listening to this, like there's something that happens when you are in your 30s, where there's all of this clarity about your life in a way that you've never had before. And now I am officially in my 40s I'm very excited to see what that brings. And one thing that if I look back on my life that has been woven in a value of mine has been community. I was in Girl Scouts when I was a little girl, once I stopped Girl Scouts, I did cheerleading, when I was in college, I was in a sorority, I am you know, I have a Facebook group with a bunch of people that we connect virtually. And now I have a group practice. And a lot of people asked me, Did you want to have like, was it your intention to have a group practice? And I'm like, no. But if I think about my values, and I think about what fills fills me up is it's being around other people and it's being a part of the community. And when I went into private practice, I joined a group practice as a renter and so I had some community built in there. And when I was thinking about going out on my own and it was I never wanted to necessarily go out on my own just to be Amanda Anderson back then lmhc. On my own, I had always wanted to be around people. And that's really how my group practice got started. And then the group practice has grown. Because other people that are in my circle saw what I was doing, and I think wanted that as well. They wanted to be in private practice. And they wanted to be a part of a community. And I think that has been what has really helped us grow. Over the past couple of years we've been now carrying therapists is seven years old, officially. But the people that join our group practice, really want to be a part of a community, even if it's just knowing somebody is next door sometimes like, they don't necessarily see each other, they might not even necessarily socialize in the hallways, because they're running between sessions, or just kind of knowing that there's somebody next door is really helpful. And obviously, we foster more community than that. So a group practice is a great way for people to really feel connected if community is important to that. Now, a solo practice is great for people who have a different set of values, or really have we were talking about have a very strong business acumen or have their own ideas of how they want to run things.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes. And you the one thing that you said there, Amanda, that's just kind of resonating with me most is just this whole idea of community, because I think that regardless of whether you decide to go the route of being a solo practitioner, or being part of a group or owning a group, that kind of thing. Private Practice, particularly with the work that we do, we need others, we need that support along the way. And I think that having a community, having a more bar from your old name of your group, tribe, is really important for people. And I think that's one of the reasons that your, your Facebook group has done so well is that people recognize that they need that.

Amanda Landry_
Yeah, and that's, you know, the Facebook group built organically. It wasn't I didn't, people sometimes have asked me like, What did you do to build this group? And I'm like, I don't really know, like, I just we we went in there, we answered questions we built community, we let people ask for referrals, we let people share the exciting things that they were doing so that they really felt a part of something. And that, I think, has been really helpful. And, you know, being in South Florida, there's, there's a lot of therapists, this is an area that there are several schools for masters and doctoral programs. So there's a lot of therapists, but there's a lot of people and being connected to other therapists in this area is so helpful. And even being connected to other group practices, it has really helped us build up what we've got going on. And I would say, for anybody thinking about if they're wondering if a group practice is a good choice for them, if you want to be a part of something that you can, you know, come in, get clients, see your clients write notes, and leave and not have to do any of those business things not have to understand some of the backend things, clinicians are like, I just don't ever want to have to understand how to bill insurance. It's just not, you know, that's not their forte or money. A lot of, you know, a lot of math, you know, I mean money, but just like the math behind things, when I start pulling up spreadsheets and consulting sessions, sometimes for people they're like, following, but not really, but I am, but I'm not, you know, so, you know, doing math can, you know, scare people into not wanting to know all of those small details. And so, group practices are a great way to be in private practice, have autonomy and be a part of something that, let's just say bigger than yourself.

Gordon Brewer
Right. Right. Yeah. And that's I think that's, you know, as we we've alluded to already, I think private practice is necessary, or running a private practice or being a private practice owner, is not necessarily for everyone and you've got to kind of figure that out for yourself as you as you move into this. I know another another thing that you are also passionate about Amanda that I am too and that is finding, finding the support that you need through mastermind groups and communities like that. So and I know that you're getting ready to start a new group and so tough Luke's about that.

Amanda Landry_
So we're getting ready to launch a group practice mastermind, because what we found, were people that wanting that wanted to start group practices or maybe had a small group practice and they weren't sure where to go, like, they were ready. They want to invest their time, they want to invest their money into starting a group practice or really building something, but they didn't really know. You know, the who, what, where, when, why, right. Like they need the small details, they need to know, the back end, they want to know the referrals to get AdWords to get SEO, but they don't have that information. They want to know, how do you pay people? How do you do vacation? How do you you know, cross reference billing, how do you mark it, not just me, but my whole group practice. And we were seeing the same themes when we're doing consulting calls. And I found so much value out of being in a mastermind, when I was in a mastermind, completely shifted over the way that I was doing my group practice and that the group practice really became. So it really became something. And I just always reflect on my time. And then after I spent actually, one year in Joe's mastermind. Now, that was a 28. thing what, so about four years ago, and since then, everything for my business had shifted. And so I know, personally, the value of being in a mastermind. And so then offering that and then offering the knowledge because, again, what I found when people want to start group practices, they don't need motivation. They're already motivated, they're ready, they, they have some income, they have some, you know, dollars to put towards advertising, they just want to know the best place to put their advertising dollars, they want to know, the best system for payroll, they want to know, the best electronic health record for, you know, a group practice, they want to know how to run reports, how, when to hire staff, you know, and these are things that are wonderful, like, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful for masterminds, because you can really get a lot accomplished during ours, it's going to be over the period of three months. And that's a great runway to start a group practice.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, yes. Yeah, it's a ditto to everything you said, with, with masterminds, you know, even now, I'm in a mastermind group with other with other practice owners, and also doing people that are doing consulting and that sort of thing. And it's, it is so important to have those, you know, the peers that you the colleagues that you encounter in a mastermind group, that are going through some of the same issues, same problems, and to be able to hear from them, oh, well, when I when I ran into this problem, this is how I handled it, or just, you know, all of that, and it's just, it is absolutely mastermind groups, in my opinion, are well worth you get you, you definitely get the ROI out of it. Return on investment of what you put into it with your time and your money, of being able to do those kinds of things.

Amanda Landry_
Yeah, I actually found that Max, that masterminds are really great to get the foundation and then I actually find individual coaching, now to be more valuable, because I'm so laser focused and so clear about what I need, that when I get on a coaching call with my private practice, coach that I can show clearly asked what I need. It's not this big sort of nebulous question, because I've done so much of that work in masterminds. And so, for anybody thinking about if you're, you know, on the fence about joining our mastermind, or any masterminds like I would say it definitely, like you said, definitely a good ROI, because you will get what you need from there. And the cool thing about masterminds, like you said, you're not just getting the feedback from the consultants, you're getting that from your peers, and I got so much valuable feedback from my peers. And what's interesting about being in a mastermind with other group practice owners is that they, for the most part, have probably already built successful solo practices. And so they're gonna have really creative and innovative ideas, especially on marketing, and how they built. So I'm just excited to start back because that's again, I love community. So being with eight people twice a month, is gonna be really excited to really see their growth.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Yeah. So yeah. So what are some other thoughts that you have just around this whole idea about growing your practice going, you know, figuring out what route you want to go, figuring out on All the stuff that people have to figure out, I mean, you've got a very successful large practice something in my mind, it's a large practice multiple locations, what would you say are kind of the big tips that you've learned along the way and in getting to that scale.

Amanda Landry_
So I think it's really important for anybody to be at a practice, whether it's your solo practice, or a group practice that really is meaningful for you, and a part of something that is aligned with your values. And that I think is really important. We accept insurance, I've always accepted insurance, because that's in line with my values, I want to be able to afford to provide accessible therapy to people. And luckily, in Florida, they have raised the insurance rates to where now therapists at some level can make a good living, seeing insurance based clients. And so that has been really great. So and at the same time, if you want to be in a private pay practice, then be in a private pay practice, find a practice that really aligns with the type of practice that you you want to be in. And know that each one comes with a unique set of pathways, I was gonna say problems, but pathways. I like insurance, because we do a fair amount of marketing. And that's because we have 35 practitioners, we're filling up. But I don't necessarily want to have to constantly churn out material, I don't always want to go to networking events, I wanted to see clients, that was always my priority. And I found that if you had, let's say, 30 hours in a week, and you were private pay 15, let's say we're seeing clients and 15, you were marketing for a good amount of that or creating material? Well, I find I would just rather see 25 clients a week, and not it'd be Marquette, one hour a week. And then, and that would be that. And so knowing that there's a lot of different ways to be in private practice, you can be in a small group practice or a large group practice, a lot of people who join group practices actually have bad experiences, which is tough. I think that a lot of people go then into solo practices, because they feel like maybe they weren't getting a good return for what they were doing and their group practice. So for group practice owners, I would really encourage you to really take a look at your policies, take a look at compensation, take a look at benefits and take a look at the culture that you have. Because if people are leaving at a large scale, then there is something going on with the practice. Now. Again, that's also location specific, like in South Florida. While there are a lot of solo practices, they get overtaken by the group practices because the there are some solid group practices in South Florida, there always have been. And so if you're moving into our market, you'll never be able to compete with us. On Google, we're always going to be on the first page of Google. And so that is helpful to us, obviously, as a group practice, but look at your area, understand the market understand, are there more group practices? Are there more solo practices, if there aren't a lot of group practices, maybe that's a way for you to build something, if there's not a lot of group practices, there might be because the solo practices are so successful and providing enough services in the area. What we found and why we continue to grow is because once we filled up, somebody, the next person got filled up, and then the next person got filled up. And then we saw everybody's children, but then all the parents wanted to see us and then all the parents friends wanted to come and see us. And then we really had to diversify the one that services and and the types of clients that we saw to meet the need of our community.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes. Love all of that, you know, as I've shared on the podcast before, I think, like you said, is to kind of put it in a nutshell, as you for you, Amanda, you're really clear on your why, as far as what your practice is about and why you're there and how you want to serve and that sort of thing. You know, that the whole thing around the insurance stuff. And insurance based practice as well and, again, is it comes from knowing your community and knowing what is needed, and then being able to put the right systems and processes in place to be able to support that not only from a staff Having standpoint but compensation and, and being able to make sure that you're building a culture that is that is going to sustain itself, and is connected to your mission and your why and all of that kind of thing.

Amanda Landry_
Yeah, and I think that there was a while where insurance based practices were kind of not as seen as maybe prestigious or not seen as Oh, okay to accept insurance, you don't have to market Oh, you accept insurance. And then, over the past couple of years, I've seen the insurance based group practices really built very nicely. And that now we're able to compete with the private pay practices, and we're able to, we provide, you know, we have excellent staff who have our high quality training, you know, and it's, we're offering a lot of different services. And that's been really great. And that has been a part of analyzing the community. Both areas I'm in and primarily in Wellington, it's a more affluent area, we could absolutely have a private pay practice here, no problem. But I also, I used to like to use the word accessible, like I want to be accessible, I want to be able, we and we do a fair amount of private pay because of the market here. But again, I really looked at what works for my clinicians and what works for our community, and really building something. So we're really purposeful about where we, what communities we go into, we actually look for communities with high number of people that live there, I won't go into small boutiques kinds of communities like with, really, I'm looking for at least 50,000 people and in South Florida. That's pretty that's fairly common. Yeah. And looking in areas where the socioeconomic status can sustain that and where maybe like, we're very conscious cost conscious about what, what the hospital what kind of insurance do they provide their employees, the school board, right? We have so many school board, board employees come and see us. We have tons of nurses, you know, respiratory therapists, occupational therapists, all all of the allied professionals at the hospital will come out or their children will come and see us. And so we want to make sure that we accept that insurance because those are our ideal clients. What might one subset population I love our hospital employees, they are just like the most like, they will come every single week, they will do their homework, they will pay their co pays, they know how the insurance system works, and they like to be there. Yes, I love hospital employees.

Gordon Brewer
Yes. Yes. That's, you know, that's a really good point there. And I had kind of a new that in the back of my mind. But what if somebody is considering going into, you know, accepting or being on some insurance panels and I would think you would concur with this, Amanda, don't try to go on all of them. Just find the key ones in your area. And again, looking at your largest employers, the people that you know, where are your ideal clients, and all of that sort of thing is is a really important point there. I know. Here where I'm located in in Kingsport, we've got a very large chemical manufacturing company and so I need to in my in at one time, they were one of the largest private employers in the state of Tennessee, but that, you know, making sure that we are paneled with that particular insurance company, whoever they're using at the time. And so, that's, that's a real important point.

Amanda Landry_
And then, if you on the flipside, if you want to be private pay, get to know the other private pay, you know, service providers, acupuncturists, treatment centers, chiropractors, even you know, med spas and go and connect with those, you know, types of services because that's where you're gonna get referrals from his other people who, you know, people who are accustomed to paying private pay or paying cash for services. And that has been helpful for us because we do have connections with people who do send us private pay referrals because people choose not to use their insurance or are in between insurance or or really want a specific provider. And we don't we we have moved away from credentialing everybody on every insurance we never really did that. But we definitely look at how much the the insurance companies paid for the most part, they have all increased like I had mentioned in South Florida one payer is still fairly low. We're advocating but we've kind of found other ways around that, but I think, again, knowing our community is so important. And if you're going into a community, you don't have to be from that community. And we're not from Wellington, we moved. Now we're from Wellington, because we moved here, but we weren't from this community. But we were able to see what really works in we had to plan for things like they have season here, like I had never lived anywhere, there was a season. So over the summer, everybody goes up north, and then in, in the winter, everybody starts coming back, so we can very full during the season. And then over the summer, we weren't entirely slow, because children are out of school. So then they come a lot for therapy. But we have to know that so we can prepare and plan

Gordon Brewer
for whole ebb and flow of practice. And I think that's, that's, yeah, again, another great, great thing to think about. But yeah, I mean, again, goes back to what you said earlier, is really knowing your community well and know, knowing what the needs are, you know, one, one point I wanted to make real quickly here is that I think one myth that people have is that they have to either go insurance or not. But the truth of the matter is, is very air very easy to do kind of a hot hybrid kind of practice. I know that's how it is in my practice is well, we do both cash pay and, and insurance. And so yeah, it sounds like we're similar in that way.

Amanda Landry_
And I don't want to be doom and gloom. And I never want to discourage people from doing private pay, but the economy is shifting, life is shifting. And I think I am, I take a more calculated approach, I want to know that we're going to have income coming in no matter what happens with the economy, and no matter kind of what happens with the area, we were lucky with the pandemic, I think, as mental health professionals, probably the wrong word, but that our industry, what actually grew, right, I remember when the pandemic had, and I was like, I What are we going to do, like, every, everything's going to come crashing down, people are going to stop coming to therapy, and now they have these leases. And I have three year leases. And, you know, I've got people that need clients and their people are scared about getting sick. And then all of a sudden, it was like the opposite happened, right? Like, we couldn't keep up with the demand. The phone's ringing off the hook, like, everybody got fooled, we've seen the effect of that I was actually randomly looking for a therapist in another state for a friend of mine, and everybody on psychology, not accepting new clients weightless, not accepting new clients wait was not accepting new clients. And so it's gonna be really interesting to see what happens as a result of a shortage of mental health professionals, we don't have to, you know, go into a long conversation about that. But it's gonna be interesting to see, and then how practices really shape up because your practices are being bought out. By larger practice and investment companies were dealing with, you know, talkspace, and BetterHelp. And all of those companies that are really employing a lot of people, let's put it that they're employing a lot of therapists. I mean, they had quite a network of therapists, you know, we, a lot of people that we get from our to our group practice worked for those companies, and that was just wasn't a good fit for them. And the way that we set up is a better fit. But I think that group practices are going to continue to thrive, as long as they can keep up with the trends of the larger community, which is, you know, our country and our world and, and the trends. So for me, being clued into that is really important, because I want to know what's going on. So then that way we can make strategic moves in our practice.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes. That's great. That's great. Well, Amanda, I know we can talk about this for hours. But I want to be respectful of your time. And so tell folks how they can get in touch with you and also about your upcoming mastermind group that you're going to be starting and that sort of thing.

Amanda Landry_
So, the best way to find me is our website, it's my private practice collective.com. And that's also the name of the Facebook group. So if you're not already a member of the Facebook group, that is an invitation for you to join 18,000 of your colleagues where we talk every single day about private practice. You can find me at my group practice at caring therapists of broward.com we will eventually rebrand minus the brow of Broward, but I have been not proactive about rebranding my group practice, which I'm sure Gordon you know, can be quite, that's like, what if I come back in two years to your podcast, and it's still our URL, then I need you to hold me accountable. It looks, Tip Don't don't necessarily name your group practice and location, but it may or may not work for you in the future. But that's where you can find me and thank you so much. I know we could talk forever. Yeah, I love talking to you. Yes.

Gordon Brewer
And it's, uh, it was good to be with you. Back in April. We're had both been at a conference together the faith and practice conference, and it was really good to reconnect and that sort of thing. But yeah, we'll have all the links here for people to find Amanda in the show notes and the show summary and, Amanda, I'm sure you will be back again.

Amanda Landry_
I would love to and I look forward to seeing you at a conference. Hopefully, maybe in the next year.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, I will happen