The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer
Okay, if you want to do your blurb

Chris McDonald
Hi, I'm Chris from the holistic counseling podcast. Okay, was that good? Yeah. Say my last name.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah. Yeah. Just, if you don't mind, just say Chris from the holistic counseling podcast and happy to be on the practice. Oh, okay. Sorry, guys. And today we're gonna be talking about blah, blah, blah.

Chris McDonald
Okay, so we're gonna be talking about specifically.

Gordon Brewer
Well, I think they're just, I think maybe how to have a holistic counseling practice.

Chris McDonald
Oh, okay. Sure. Okay. Absolutely. Okay. Okay. Hey, ready? Hi, I'm Chris McDonald from the whole Oh, shoot. That's Hi, I'm Chris McDonald from the holistic Do you want me starting? That's fine. Okay. I am Chris McDonald from the holistic counseling podcast. And I'm happy to be here on the practice of therapy. And we'll be talking today about how to start a holistic practice. Was that right?

Gordon Brewer
Yeah. Okay. Sounds good. Okay. All right. Well, hello, everyone, and welcome again to the podcasts. And I'm happy for you to get to know today Chris McDonald. Welcome, Chris.

Chris McDonald
Thanks. So glad to be here.

Gordon Brewer
Yes. And I was glad that Chris reached out to me. She's, you know, she's kind of from my hometown. So that just meant something to be in Raleigh,

Chris McDonald
North Carolina. Yeah. So

Gordon Brewer
it's always good to reconnect in those ways. But But Chris, is I start with everyone, why don't you tell folks a little bit more about yourself and how you've landed where you've learned? Sure.

Chris McDonald
So I'm a Holistic Therapist, and kind of that's been a process for me to build my identity with that and started kind of small with that as when I was a school counselor and started just with breathing practices. But you know, as things have rolled in, I wasn't even sure that I would land where I landed, was one of those things that I've gotten lots of different trainings, and met lots of different people that kind of took me in this direction of holistic therapy and got my yoga certification and 2019, which I never in my life imagined I would. So it's one of those things that I found myself on this path, which I love. And I started the holistic counseling podcast in 2021 of April. So still building that and building my holistic community with other therapist, which is my passion. I love all things holistic, and use a lot of yoga and mindfulness meditation with clients. I have a small group practice, I have two clinicians that work for me, and they also work with mostly young adults. And that's what I found is more my niche. And I love to work with those just starting out in life from 18 to about 30. So a lot of men transitions from college, going to college or going to college to work, and learning those adulting tasks. A lot have anxiety, depression, trauma. The focus, though,

Gordon Brewer
yeah. And it seems like, you know, a dare, dare I say, post COVID. I think a lot of that has really come out for people with just that, you know, the depression, anxiety and all of those things, particularly for that. Oh, for sure to see how, yeah,

Chris McDonald
so a lot of struggle and a lot of identity issues and figuring out trying to find meaning and where am I going with my life, which I love that. And I think it goes back to my school counselor roots, because I love helping people figure out their futures, I think goals identifying meaning, purpose, spirituality, beliefs. And yeah, for me, that's a passion.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes. And it's much needed. I think, as you know, and I think most of the audience knows that. We're, we're not our are the people in our professions are kind of in short supply right now. And so most artists are, are finding that we, if we're marketing in the right way we do our practices are getting full pretty quickly.

Chris McDonald
Yes, absolutely. Things have changed. I feel like the counseling world has changed so much since COVID. And, you know, it's just a lot of transition to telehealth and which I think is a good thing. I think we're able to reach more clients and I'm happy with some of those changes. My practice is all virtual.

Gordon Brewer
Okay, okay. Yeah, that's, that's good. So we'll talk some more about that and how you've how you've done that. But one question that I have is when when you think of being a holistic counselor, and I'm sure people listening to this or are wondering about that and what that means. So tell us, tell us kind of what that means to you.

Chris McDonald
Yeah, so For me, it's treating the whole person, not just the mind or using the CBT approaches its mind, body and spirit, I call it more of that approach. And really looking at somatic practices, I use a lot of that, combining some of the yoga in sessions, which is, which is more about calming the nervous system, the yoga that I use, and turning on that parasympathetic, to help with emotional regulation, use bits and pieces of other somatic experiencing and, you know, whatever I can pick, that I think is helpful with clients. You know, as far as somatically based, also, I mentioned the spiritual piece. So part of my intake is I have a holistic form. So I use and I ask clients, if they're comfortable discussing spirituality, or religious practices, what they might be, I include holistic practices, just so we can have a place to start. So if they are already doing meditation, we'll have a discussion on that. And, you know, just kind of see where that goes from there. And whatever the client wants to talk about, as far as spirituality, if they're comfortable with that, and I'm, I'm the kind of therapist, if you want to talk about contacting your angels, spirit guides, I'm there, right? I'm open to that. And if that's what, you know, the pores, what the client wants to discuss any, and how to create some kind of spiritual practices, because that's different for everybody. It's not the same thing. So. So really just looking overall, including interventions. Like I mentioned, yoga, somatic experiencing, I think, is more of a holistic perspective, meditation, essential oils, tarot cards, these are just some that are mentioned on my podcast as well. And of course, brain spotting. EMDR. We can't forget those.

Gordon Brewer
No, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes. So So I guess one thing that I'm really curious about, when I think about those different modalities as you if you will, you know, thinking about yoga and doing somatic work and that kind of thing? How have you been able to do that via telehealth? Ah,

Chris McDonald
interesting. Yes. Well, for me, it was an easy transition, because I've done video since I started my practice in 2015. So that wasn't, I was not scrambling because I already had people online, but you have to be more conscious of your visual cues. And you're like, I bought this amazing video camera, one thing I learned was the importance of having good sound quality for your sessions, as well as good video. So the camera I have, if I stand up to do standing yoga, people can see my whole body instead of the crappy ones that come with a laptop, right? The camera. So really investing in yourself and your practice, first out, and of course, lighting. And that's important to really making that a priority. So being able to do that and having for yoga, we have a lot of what are called cues. So really being clear on my cues of what I say and, and of course, clients don't necessarily have the best care sometimes, but I'll see if I can't, if they're bending down, I can't see what they're doing. Like, tell me what's happening, right. And I'll just try to make sure they're, you know, not hurting themselves. And yeah, we figure out where they are. Because that sometimes is a challenge. Because if we're not in person I can't always tell. And just and I tell them that they really have to focus on what my voice is.

Gordon Brewer
Right? Right. Yeah. Well, I think it's, as we all learned, again, during COVID, we can quickly adapt to damage Yes, yeah. To doing, you know, sessions in the video format. Personally, I still prefer in person I just, you know, Okay, folks, you can say it. Okay. Okay. Okay, Boomer. But, yeah, yeah, but, yeah, so, but one of one of the things to maybe that folks are curious about is, as you have built in and this is part of what you do with some of your consulting work is as you built your, your practice, what have you found as far as what, what is helpful in building an telehealth only kind of practice?

Chris McDonald
Well, that's interesting, because Can I just tell you a quick story about that I was all in person. Like I said, I had some telehealth, few clients handful and then of course COVID happened. And I went back to the office in May of 21. Part time for in person ended in a hybrid. And you know what happened? My young adults were not wanting to come Interesting. Yeah, interesting as well. A lot of them were long term. I see people longer term, especially with trauma. And a lot of them are they would be like, Oh, I'll come in video this week, or come in person this week and video next week, and I'm just like, I don't have enough people to stay keeping my in person office. So March this year, I closed it and just went all video because it just I didn't have enough people coming in Honestly, cuz I really thought there was a point oh, man, people are gonna want to be coming in there. No, I think people got used to it the convenience of it. But yeah, like I said, just having those systems for being careful with payment, I think is important in private practice, we're rich, because I don't have the option for you to give me a cash. So I make sure my electronic health record everything, all forms are filled out. Because that was the thing when I have in person, you can just throw format them if they didn't fill out something and it's fine. I can do that with video. So making sure I had those systems with making sure the credit cards and system and for my clinicians who work for me, that's something that I always talk to them about making sure everything is set, so we don't have to be chasing down money. Right. That's the other piece. I think that is really important and figuring out which platform to use. I use that HIPAA zoom. That's where I ended up. But I also have therapy notes as a backup for another telehealth. So having a backup.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, isn't Yeah, absolutely. You know, that's that's been? That's been my experience, too. With with folks. You know, what's interesting is, is that I think there are a lot of folks, especially depending on when you have your, you know, what you what you set your schedule to do, there are there are a lot of folks that are saving that commute time to come to an appointment and then go back to their office or wherever, wherever they might be. Doing it telehealth is much more convenient for them. And so I found a lot of a lot of my clients in that had been doing kind of, like you said, kind of hybrid things or are gravitating more towards the telehealth. Yeah,

Chris McDonald
I see lots of it. And I'm being flexible. I see people in their cars, which is totally fine on their phone. We can't do a standing stuff for movement, but that's okay. You know, just for us to be that have that flexible mindset with this.

Gordon Brewer
Right? Yeah. So what, as you have with your podcast, tell folks a little bit about some of the things that you've been focusing on and kind of the topics that you hit there.

Chris McDonald
Yeah, so number of things. So I'm, I can't remember that. But I think it's at something I'm at recording. Now I lost track. So it's been a lot, right when I'm on a consistent isin have weekly episodes that come out. And really, my whole goal is is to build more of a holistic community of therapists, because a lot of us feel isolated me included, because where I live, and you probably know this, from North Carolina that way, it's not the most progressive as far as holistic things, depending on where you live, but where I live, it's not. So it's harder to it was harder for me at the time to when I started this to connect and find people that, you know, did the same kind of practices that I do that treated holistically, which is a little bit different than traditional therapy. So finding that network building that network, which has been amazing, because I have a Facebook group, the holistic counseling and self care group that connects people from all over the world. Wow, that are holistic therapists. And we can ask questions and offer support, which has just been totally invaluable. And the podcast is talks about lots of different holistic strategies. And honestly, there are so many I've never heard of that. I'm like, wow, this is amazing, really opening up people's eyes to different resources. And that's what I get from listeners a lot. They're very excited to see what's next and and what else they can learn. Because my listeners are very, they very much want to learn as much as possible. and I are very fascinated by all things related to holistic counseling and things outside the box. And as well as we focus on self care practices as well. And some practice building tips too.

Gordon Brewer
Right. Right. Yeah, I think that's one of the things that I know, over this past year. That has been, again, on my on my radar a lot is just this whole notion of self care. As a therapist, I think we absolutely. One of the things. And for folks that it'd be interesting to do a study on this. But for those of those folks that are familiar with the Enneagram I think a lot of us kind of fall into that Enneagram two category, the helper and one of the things about those of us that are too on the INIA grams, we're really, we really have a difficult time sometimes just getting in touch with our own deeds, because we're so focused on other people's needs. And so, you know, that's one of the things that I've, I've had to work on with my therapist. Yes, yeah. And so just to how I can better care for myself. And so

Chris McDonald
yeah, I think that's a natural response for a lot of us in our field want to help take care of others and of course that can happen personally, not just professionally and and then We get lost in the mix. And you know, and sometimes we self sabotage our own self care. Let me take another client. Oh, let me add this one more thing to my schedule. We all know this, right? Yeah, and do this. So that's why I created a holistic webinar series for therapists to that I'm actually doing this week, I have one on holistic self care boundaries for therapists, because we got to set some boundaries for ourselves. Yeah, in order to keep consistent practice, you know,

Gordon Brewer
right, you want to say more about that, because I think that's a really important thing to for people to pay attention to.

Chris McDonald
Yeah, from a holistic framework to I'm going to be diving into physical boundaries, like taking care of yourself, your own physical needs, right? Because of course, that especially we get busy, what happens, we stop exercising, we stop eating, right? So how do you make some steps so that you can have a consistent practice? Also, looking at mental how do we take care of our own mental health and negative thoughts? I know that we all can come up with an as a therapist, right? We can get down on ourselves, we can have that self doubt. And how do we manage that? Energetic boundaries is not talked about enough? With therapists? How do we disconnect energetically from clients? Because it you've probably had this experience where you have a client who's severely dysregulated, then guess what? You might feel that after? I know, for me, vibrationally I know, I sometimes if somebody's severely depressed, it catches on me attaches. And I feel depressed. And I'm not usually a depressed person. And that's my sign. I need to release this energy, let it go. How do I do that? Need to find some strategies. So that's one thing that I talk a lot about with therapists is energetically disconnecting and protecting yourself shielding yourself. And you don't hear much about this anywhere. So I feel like it's on board. And

Gordon Brewer
yeah, it's interesting, because I've had a few guests here on the past episodes that we talked about vicarious trauma, and I know a lot of us do trauma work. And, and I think one of the things that we that we don't get taught in school is how to take care of ourselves when we're affected by other people's energy and in the heaviness of what they what they hand to us.

Chris McDonald
And what are those signs that you might be experiencing vicarious trauma? I know it's happened to most everybody that especially if you treat trauma, it's going to happen to you, and what are those signs? And how can you overcome that? I mean, that's, that's key.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, yeah. So, so walk us through, maybe if you don't mind sharing this walk us through kind of some of the routines and rituals you do for your own self care.

Chris McDonald
I start my day, usually with some yoga, so meditation. And usually I like to do some reading, because reading for me just kind of centers me calms me down. Now, I don't get to those every day, I'm not gonna say that. I always have time, but I make that's my intention. So the majority of days, I do do that. I usually like some kind of movement in the morning, it just kind of gets me going and helps me get centered, having some kind of intention for my day. So especially if I've been feeling stressed, what is my intention, that's kind of a yoga practice to to say, you know, to work through my day with ease as an example, or have some other kind of mantra, being able to not rush, I'm a type A, I have to really monitor that, especially what as I manage multiple things with my private practice, group practice, and manage the pack so easily. I can be caught up like this more. I was like, Oh, my God, I didn't realize I had all these things going on. And I thought the day was going to start quieter. But it didn't sound like anything brief. Let's take it one step at a time. It's easy for me to go off in that. Go, go go go and not take break. So sometimes my intention, let me just see when I'm going to take breaks. Because otherwise, yeah, I don't and also disconnection at the end of the day. I talked to therapists a lot about that, too, because if we don't, it's easy to be like, especially work from home. I had this problem. And once I started all telehealth, I'm like, Okay, let me just send one more email. Right. All right, let me just, you know, do one more thing to finish this note. So finding a time what is your disconnection time? And once I'm done, I say, I actually have this attachable camera, I'll take the camera down and say, my work is done today. So saying it out loud. It sounds weird as hell, right? Right. I have this office at home and shut my door. You know, those small little rituals, I think be helpful.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, you know, I couldn't agree more. And I think that's one of the things that has been just some as I like to say there are certain spaces that I kind of hold kind of sacred and protect for myself. And one of those is is like you mentioned the morning routine. I mean, Pretty much every morning I'm out for a run or list, or a walk and, and listening, listening to podcasts and music and that kind of thing, as a way to as a way to kind of prepare me for the day. And it's it's so funny that you mentioned just thinking about your day with it as we're recording this. It's a Monday. And so at the beginning of the day today, I was just started thinking, Okay, what have I got for this week? And you know, that just kind of get overwhelmed with that? Yeah, think about all that. But I think having a having a ritual that that kind of helps you ground yourself, I think is really important. And people the other thing too, because I get excited about this stuff. Sorry, Chris. But yeah, this is one of the things too, that it's I've got my planner that I use, and it's one of the things that's in my planner, it's this the full focus planner, by Michael Hyatt and company, but one of the things that it has for each week is a weekly preview. And so look, you look back at your previous week and talk about your your wins, as they say and then look forward to okay, what are the key things I want to accomplish this week? And, and it's in with the with that there's only three things that your there's only space for three things that you can write down for your week. And so her that kind of kind of helps limit and keep the boundaries, I think,

Chris McDonald
yeah, and I think it's easy to overwhelm ourselves with let me focus on what this and this and this Oh, yeah, this is like my, you have 10 that you can't focus on 10 picks, and then it's gonna create some dysregulation in yourself, too, if you're trying to do too much. And so narrowing it down. That sounds like a good planner.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, it is. I did. I'll put it a shameless plug here. If somebody wants to go to practice of therapy.com/full focus plan, or you can get early. Yeah. So the affiliate links. Yeah, but it's a it's a great tool. And I think just really any of those tools like that surely, spit are intentional about spending time about just reflecting not only on the previous week, but just kind of reflecting forward is a good, good thing.

Chris McDonald
Yeah. And taking that time to do that. It's easy to blow that off. Right.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah. And again, that. The other thing you mentioned, too, is I think, and I'm not as good about this as, as having, like you said, a daily shutdown ritual, where you have, okay, were you, you say to yourself, mentally and emotionally and spiritually. Okay, full stop. This is letting it go.

Chris McDonald
Yeah, that's tough in our field right now, are you gonna text Oh, this client reached out? Yeah. And we can be available 24/7. And if we don't set bounds, I set boundaries my clients do, I'm not available for phone calls or texts after 7pm or 6pm. Whatever the day is, my schedule varies, you know, I'm not available, I'm not going to respond to your email or text before 9am. So I just think being very clear. Again, this goes back to self care boundaries. And, and I also think in the evening, what I like to do is if I'm making dinner, just put on a podcast or music, something to kind of shift my neurologically neurobiologically my brain to something else. So I'm out of work mode, changing my clothes, whatever it takes to transition. So figuring out what you like to do, and what is something that can kind of train your brain out of that.

Gordon Brewer
Right. Right workload. Yeah, right. Yeah. And I think it's, we've got to all be conscious of that as well. Well, Chris, I want to be respectful of your time. And I know we could spend probably all day talking. Yeah, let's keep going. So yeah. What what sort of parting talks to you have just around this topic of self care and holistic counseling, and that sort of thing.

Chris McDonald
And just just be open to new ideas and experimenting, you know, because there's so much more out there than I ever imagined. Like when I started this, this was I graduate, graduate school 90, aging myself, but there wasn't talk of holistic counsel, I didn't know anything about this. And I think just just being aware that you know, maybe there's something you can uplevel your practice because in my experience, and talking to other holistic therapists, so it really can help people, especially people who are stuck, who tried traditional therapy, and they're just not getting what they want out of it, or they're feeling just stuck in some way. It really can be more effective for them. There's certain people I think that really resonates with and I think, I think overall, people are really moving in that direction. And there is more somatically based practices. Now. I think that makes such a difference. and just just be open to learning and experimenting and right.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, I know, I've made a shift in that. And my thinking about all of that, over this last few years are just the importance of, of being able to teach clients just about the whole somatic experience of particularly trauma or any anything. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And just, and I think it makes a huge difference to people with that. The other thing that you bring up, there's that I think, for a lot of us that have gone, you know, been taught kind of traditionally in the field. You know, I wouldn't necessarily drink the Kool Aid of thinking you got to do it in this traditional way. Right, I think I think they're giving yourself permission to, to take what you know, and take what you experience in life, and then applying that in, in the therapy room or in what you do. Is is okay, and I think we should be doing that.

Chris McDonald
To me, it's self care, too. I don't know about you. I've been doing this a long time. But sometimes, it's almost a boredom. If I don't keep learning and keep trying new things with clients that I can best help them. So just to me, that's, that can be self care. Yes. What is what is a new direction I could take to maybe best help the clients I serve. But then guess what, we can use those practices on ourselves. Right, the best thing, before I started with you, I just do in some of my subtle yoga practices, and it's just amazing to get myself centered, and it leads to your own healing.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah. Yeah. I know, with people that I supervise, and for the licensure and that sort of thing. I tell them, you know, give yourself permission to experiment with some things and try some new things that maybe are outside your comfort zone, just to and then being able to be, you know, transparent with clients around that as well.

Chris McDonald
And that's how we grow isn't it? our comfort zone and

Gordon Brewer
yeah, absolutely. Well, Chris, tell folks how they can get in touch with you and your website or podcast and all

Chris McDonald
that. You can my podcast is available on Apple podcasts, but I have a website too. It's holistic counseling podcast.com. My private practice website is path to hope counseling.com as well.

Gordon Brewer
All right, and we'll have ensured have links here in the show notes in the show summary and so you can find it easily. Well, well, Chris, I've really enjoyed our conversation and happy to do it again soon.

Chris McDonald
Yes, was fine. Definitely.