The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer
Okay, if you want to do the door.

Maira Holzmann
Oh. Hi, Gordon. I'm so excited to be here on the practice of therapy Podcast. I'm super looking forward to our conversation.

Gordon Brewer
Well, hello, everyone and welcome again to the podcast and I'm looking forward to you to get to know today. Myra Holtzman. Welcome, Myra.

Maira Holzmann
Thank you so much. I'm really happy to be here.

Gordon Brewer
Yes. And myRA is one of those good folks that reached out to me and we started kind of an online conversation and I'm really looking forward to your hearing Morris story and Myra, like, start with most everyone. Why don't you tell folks a little bit about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed?

Maira Holzmann
Sure. My name is Myra Holtzman and I run a group psychotherapy practice here in Denver, Colorado. I've been doing that for the last three years. And I've been a clinician in private practice on and off since 2007 2009. Boy, it's been a long time. And I focus on what my practice does is focus on somatic therapies. I'm running my group practice, I'm seeing clinicians and I'm also about to launch a coaching coaching course, for therapists who, who want to uplevel their private practice, and that launches on Monday. So yeah, so the last thing I'll say is that my practice focuses on helping clients heal from early trauma, as well as anxiety. That's our main foci. Then we have other specialties.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes. And how many therapists do you have in your practice?

Maira Holzmann
For total, including me, we just hired two new positions. Yeah. So

Gordon Brewer
we're super excited about that. Yeah. That's great. That's right. So yeah. And so I know, in our conversation, before we started recording, you had mentioned that you had, you've had a few ups and downs with private private practice. And, as I like to say, you sound it sounds like your journeys are a little bit parallel demand, which sounds like we get started about the same time in private practice. And, as I like to say, I've learned a lot the hard way. Sounds like you have to, it's

Maira Holzmann
funny, because I just listened to your podcast episode when you're talking about that. And I was like, Oh, we did start our journey at about the same time. Yeah, so you know, the journey into private practice is an epic one. For all of the people listening, going into private practice has been one of the best things I've ever done in my professional career, apart from training, just because it has really forced me to grow and to evolve. And my hard start was that I started three different private practices, all all of which that failed, meaning that I couldn't get enough clients, I wasn't making the kind of money that I wanted to be making. And I was basically on my own trying to DIY and bootstrap it. And I think that there is a time and a place for that. Absolutely. And then everything started to change after I bought my first coaching course, similar, but different to the one that I'm offering. And that's when I understood, that's part of how my money mindset started to change. And one of those first keys in terms of that money mindset. And I think we know this in general, from business, you know, with that old phrase that says it takes money to make money. And I wasn't at the time that I was failing in my three previous private practices, I did not have that mindset, because I was so afraid of losing the money. And so part of my money, money mindset that began to evolve is not only if not only do I need to focus on investment versus cost, because I'm gonna get a return on investment. But also that it really helps to pay people who know way more than I do, so that I can get my so that I could get my private practice really launched and up and running. And I haven't looked back since then. And it's been one of the biggest things I do regularly, right is invest in myself as a clinician, but also myself as a business person and an entrepreneur, because I that is not what I went to school for.

Gordon Brewer
Right. Right. And I totally agree with that. I mean, that's something I learned along the way, too, is that I think our our money mindset is that we're so afraid of losing money, kind of that scarcity mentality that holds us back and we don't, we really don't get ahead.

Maira Holzmann
And yeah, we really don't get ahead. Yeah, yeah,

Gordon Brewer
that's, that's so true that I totally agree to every time I've invested in some coaching or masterminds, those kinds of things. It's always I've always gotten the return on the investment by doing that. I

Maira Holzmann
agree completely. And I think that that sometimes, is a really hard sell for a new clinician who doesn't know the way because, you know, fear blocks us it doesn't allow us to see into our generous future. And I think that once I figured out that even investing and then at the time, the investment that I made into my coaching program, I think was like 600 $1,600 This was back in 2016 and And it totally launched me and helped me understand so much about myself. And I just can't recommend it enough for anyone who's listening that's like, oh, I don't want to do that it's a lot of money. It's really an important one to make. It'll, it'll fast track you towards greater success and moving in the direction in your career and mental health one.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Yeah. So what were some of the some of the changes in your mindset you had to kind of overcome?

Maira Holzmann
Well, one of the biggest ones was a cost versus investment. I mentioned that just a little bit earlier. And I think when I started out, I was looking at everything as a cost, meaning I was simply going to lose that money. If I spent $500. In ad revenue, it was lost. And one of the things that my coaching, my very first coaching program taught me was that we basically did a breakdown of okay for you is $500. And you get one client out of that, let's say, worst case scenario, you just get one client, not even zero, but just one. And then we did the math about if that client stayed with me for a minimum of eight sessions, and the way that I work, the way that our practice works, is we're doing a lot of depth work. So our clients stay with us for at least one year, if not longer. And once I figured out that, that money was just sort of like a lead, it was like, Hey, I'm gonna give you a little and then I'm gonna get a lot in return. And that was one of my biggest mindset shifts. And then the other thing that I really focused on, and I'm sure that you can relate, and I think it's true in our field, that scarcity is an all caps all the time. And I don't know what it is about our training, or maybe it's just the culture that we live in. But that scarcity mentality, which breeds fear stops all innovation and creativity. And once I started to figure out that the scarcity was this entity, like a bad roommate in my house, right, just like sucking all the air out of the room and telling me all my ideas were bad. And who did I think I was, I figured out that it was time to really focus on that. And it's something that I work up work on regularly, right? I'm always trying to travel the distance between fear and creativity, it's scarcity and abundance. And I think it's a worthy endeavor for most of us to focus on how we can get out of scarcity mentality, because the truth is, is there so there's abundance in a lot of things, not just in material wealth, but in resources in emotional support, and people that care about you and ideas. And I think that clinicians who are starting on this path, they need support doing that. So that was a really big mindset shift for me is, how do I go because I know I'm in scarcity. And I know because I'm scared, and my body is tight and constricted, to go from that to something that's a little bit more relational and free flowing, where there's this easy back and forth. And then the last thing I'll say about this is I have a dear friend who's a lawyer, and she does a bunch of coaching, coaching things. And she on a live Facebook call or something like that, she said something really simple. And this is what she said, she said, money comes in money flows. And for whatever reason that just completely stuck with me. And I kind of live by that, you know, I don't, yeah, money goes out. But money also comes in. And so when I have that relational dynamic where, you know, money, the third piece is money is energy. So if I'm putting energy into things I want to be doing that is joyful, and that is aligned, and you know, about doing good in the world. And it's easy for that abundance to come back to me.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Yeah. And I think, you know, money is such an emotional issue for most folks. And, and I think, the more we can look at money in terms, that just being a resource, and being more always get objective and subjective mixed up. But I think being more subjective, I think that's the object or, yeah, you know, what I mean, I do have a way of looking at the data, rather than making emotional decisions about money. I'm really looking at the numbers. And that's been that's been something that, I think is a lot of times we, we, we can get stuck in, we make mistakes like that occur. I've got a whole story I can tell just about how I made some decisions early on in my group practice, that were emotional decisions rather than data based decisions, and it came back to bite me. So I mean, yeah, I'm nodding

Maira Holzmann
my head vigorously, because I've made so many of those mistakes. And one thing I appreciate about where we're at in the conversation right now that I think all your listeners will need to hear is that mistakes are part of it. And, you know, I tend to think of them as experiments like, Okay, if I if I put money into this, or if I do this, how's that going to work? And I remember when I started out thinking like it was I don't know what I you know, this was my naivete. I just sort of thought like, well, if I put up a website, and I, you know, really spend a lot of time focusing on the words and making you know, everything on the website is just so then people will come and we slapped up a website and nobody came. So you know, mistakes and experimentation, decide which language you want to use. But I really liked the idea of experimentation, because you just don't know. And every mistake that I made was a huge, huge learning opportunity. And I agree with you, that's one of the things I had to learn is not not make these emotional decisions, but be more and more and more data driven, which is an ever evolving process for me.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Yeah. So I'm curious, when you, you were talking about your website and putting it up there and the struggle you had in getting clients? What was the what was kind of the break in that for you? How did you overcome that to start getting clients?

Maira Holzmann
Well, I had, as I told you, I'd had three previous failed private practices, and I was hustling I mean, I was I, I was doing everything I could, I did a bunch of networking at that time. So it's going to all of these meetings, which is very labor and time intensive, and to go and meet all these people exchange cards. And then, you know, typically, never hear from them, not typically. But sometimes that would happen. And everything started to shift when I took the lead, and I left my agency job. And now it was go time I didn't have my private practice was not up and running, I was not doing it at the same time where I was working, and then trying to set up this private practice, I kind of realized that I was simply done working at the agency that I was working at, and then I quit without any plan in place. And so I was hustling my butt off. And as part of that hustle, I invested in that very first coaching program. This is when I was here in Denver. And that was the thing, it literally like, I can look back on all of my notes. And every every thing that I ever wrote down for that course, and it was illuminating for me how much I didn't know. And once clients started rolling in, you know, there's this kind of high that happens when you do that when you get that first client. And I don't take insurance. And you know, I tried to pretty premium fees here in Denver. And I just kind of got hooked on getting clients in and then supporting them. And then watching, you know, in that first year that I was that I had taken that course and launched into private practice. For the fourth time, I missed. I missed six figures by 10k, which is a pretty good year. And I was like, Oh, I can do this. And I think that was really the turning point for me because I was scared the whole time. And I was full of self doubt, because I just never done this before. And when I finally got to that place six months after starting to take my course where I had a waitlist. And I had I was charging what I wanted to, because that was really the end of my dream that was all that I ever wanted. I was like, wow, this is amazing. I could keep doing this. And I did I just kept doing it. And so that experience, that embodied experience of I can is worth everything. I mean, it's worth more than its weight than I ever paid in any coaching course, or mastermind I've ever participated in just knowing that I can and that is awesome.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, I think it's, you know, it's interesting is for people that are going into practice, private practice initially. The one thing that I have to be aware of is that there's, there's this kind of this momentum that happens, I think, once you get a certain number of clients, and it just kind of it keeps going from there. And but when you're getting to that momentum, I think people tend to give up too quickly. With that.

Maira Holzmann
Yeah. And or they just stay really afraid and keep doing the same thing, like not investing in ads or finding different ways to be a practitioner. So yeah, I think you're right, once the momentum is going, at least my experience has been once I had momentum, then it never slowed down. I mean, my practice has been full, we've had weightless forever, I have raised my rates three times or something like that in the last year. And I'm also delivering clinical excellence. So you know, this isn't, of course, just about the business side. But I'm really in the business of helping people heal as you are and as all of your listeners are. And that was another piece for me. It wasn't so much a money mindset shift. But it was more around really getting clear about my deep why of being a therapist, because as soon as I could come home to that concept of like, here's the reason why I'm doing this, here's the story of my own life that backs it up. Then it didn't it wasn't like selling myself as a clinician, it was more like, Hey, do you want to work with me or not? Are we a good fit because I really have something to offer you and that's related to that I can embodiment which is like not only can I get clients in and make make great money, but I also have seen success with a lot of my clients. And that really helps because then when I get on console calls, there's this kind of confidence or ease that shows up in the conversation and what I have heard from clients is, you know, I knew within the first 10 to 15 minutes that you were the one for me. And you know, I have a whole thing that I do like I have a whole process when it comes to console calls, because people are calling because they need help, and they want to make sure that you're the person that can help them.

Gordon Brewer
Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's great. That's great. You know, so, you know, thinking about the being able to invest in your practice, where, what were the areas of investing now that you're doing some coaching? And not? I'm sure, it's much more involved than just a few bullet points. But what, what areas do you see that people should be investing in?

Maira Holzmann
The first the things that come to mind that were part of my process is ad budgets. So I I faithfully spent, I think, at the time, I could spend $200 a month on Google ads, my budget for my group practice is a lot different. Now. It's, it's definitely a lot more than that. But that would be one of the things is investing in ADS. And then the other thing is, SEO. I mean, SEO is for me, who does not have a super great detail oriented brain, I was just not willing to try and figure that out. That was part of my first coaching program is we had to figure out all of the terms and then take out all of the terms in order to make sure that the website was se, you know, search engine optimized. And when I hired someone to be able to do that, it just sort of changed the game, because then people could find me. And then of course, my website, SEO was building because people were coming to find me, they were looking for my name, they were looking for the approach that I use in therapy. So those would be the two things I would invest in, because the website is, you know, your website is your calling card, and you want that calling card to be optimized, as I'm sure you know. So those would be the two things that I invested in that had huge returns on investment. And I was willing to sort of like, you know, quake in fear about whether or not I had lost $500 in ad revenue, only to find out that it gave me more than if I then if I had not do that.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree. Of course, with that. I think, you know, your website is your is your face in the public. And I think that's having it optimized, is going to is just going to be a huge, huge help. You know, I can remember I was bootstrapping a lot of that stuff along the way. You know, and I think that the thing about bootstrapping, I think in those initial stages, when you have the time, to bootstrap, it's a good investment of your time. But once you start seeing clients, it's much better return on your investment to hand those things off and start outsourcing. And having other people do that. I love

Maira Holzmann
what you just said, because for all your listeners, no matter where they're at, if you're in a place where you have time, I mean, yes, bootstrap it, because you can research you can experiment, you can do all of these kinds of things. And you're so right. As soon as my client caseload got full, I suddenly was the person that was doing. I mean, I was always the person doing everything. But I was doing admin, I was doing the marketing, I was doing the website checking, I was doing everything. And it made me hate my practice. Like, let me just talk about this for one second, I got burned out at least two or three times in this sort of ramp up to being you know, a full, fully full in my private practice. And I think it's really important for folks to hear that as you get more successful, you actually need more help. And one of the best pieces of pieces of advice that I ever heard, and it's it's it's two things one is I heard this phrase, new level new devil. And, you know, the advice from one of my dear friends was like, you know, what got you to this level of success is awesome, but it's not going to be the same set of skills or mindset that you're going to need. In order to get the next level of success, you're gonna actually have to expand your repertoire. And it was so helpful for me to hear that because every time my my practice has expanded, and I've gotten to this new level, boy, the fear and the resistance, and the, I just should call it quits, just shows up. And I also want to name that piece because it's just super normal. And resistance is a force of nature on its own. And it's something that anyone that's an entrepreneur, but also, you know, particularly in our world we have to grapple with. Because, you know, one of the messages that we're given a lot is that we're not really here to make a lot of money. That's one of the sort of cultural trainings that we get as clinicians and I want to be one of the first people to say like, I can help people I really want to help people and I really want to make a lot of money. And that was a mindset shift that took me a while. I mean, I don't that's a heart honestly that Gordon, that is a hard thing for me to say. Because when I've said that in in therapeutic circles, I You know, I perceive this kind of judgy look like, Oh, that's really, you know, as if I'm being unethical. And I just really want people to hear you can really want to help people and help people and make a lot of money. And that's great. That's great. That's great for, you know, your community, your clients, that's great for you.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Yeah. And if you think about it, it's for some reason in our profession. You know, unfortunately, for people that a master's level or above, were some of the lowest paid people. You know, it with a professional degree. And so, yeah, and that, I think that's, that's something that we need. You need to work and advocate for and changing and that sort of thing. Because you're, listen to me, people, you're worth, what, you're worth it, you're worth it. I mean, you've put in all these hundreds of hours to get your education, and then work towards licensure and all those kinds of things. And you, you know, a lot of stuff. And so that's me that.

Maira Holzmann
Yeah, and you know, the other thing I'll throw out there, because I've been paying attention to this, to what I call emotional labor, you know, like that, as a therapist, that's what we're doing all of the time is we are, even when we're not with our clients, we are still even just holding the container for ourselves so that we can be thriving and grounded and regulated when we show up for sessions. So I love what you just said, I think that clinicians really need to know that they are worth getting paid really well, and having a life where they get to, you know, do good, live large and thrive more. That's the whole that's the whole jam. That's

Gordon Brewer
right. Yeah. So yeah, and I think, and I hear a new Morrow, just kind of the same passion I have in that which I know, without having to ask this. I know, that's probably what led you to creating your coaching course. Yes, coaching program. So say more about that.

Maira Holzmann
Yeah, I mean, this is, so I take a lot of trainings, it's one of the things I love to do, I invest in a lot of trainings, somatic therapist, and I often feel a little bit out of place in those trainings, not not for anything other than the reason that when I hear people talk about their practices, and I hear, you know, the amount of money that they're charging, and these are people who are oftentimes more seasoned than I am, I mean, I've gone through a lot of trainings with clinicians who have been in the field for 2030 years. And I just got really tired of hearing people live and breathe scarcity without even knowing that they were doing it. I remember one time I was sitting in a car with three therapists, we're on our way, all of us on our way to the airport after a training, and the clinicians started talking about their insurance rates. And you know, that which which insurance offered the best rates, and so they were because these were people for all from the same area. And then they started talking about how it was unethical to not take insurance. And I said something, I was like, why don't take insurance. And I, you know, I charge a premium fee. And they all looked at me and got really quiet and basically stopped talking. And I was like, wow, what's what's happening right here, I just talked about premium fees, I don't take insurance and the most unethical one in the car. And I get tired of really feeling like that. And also, you know, I'm surrounded by fabulous, super talented, super dedicated and committed clinicians. And they're charging 100, you know, 120 per session, or 150 per session, and that's fine. And I'm, I'm also just like, you've been in the field for 30 years, right. And for some people, they don't need to, it's totally fine. Maybe they have, you know, like a, you know, I don't know, a pot of cash that they can work on. But I started the business coaching course. Because I want to change the culture in which we practice where it's all about sacrifice and burnout and overworking. And somehow, those are badges of honor, they're not badges of honor. They're part of a system that is oppressive. And then you know, one of the things that we I'm trying to do in this coaching course, is really help people be more soul aligned, and whatever they're practicing. And I make a distinction between creating a solo line practice and an ego one. So when I started to get successful, it was a totally ego led practice, I was all about the stats of how much money I was making and how many clients I had and you know, the status of it in my own mind. And then within nine months, I was getting pretty burned out and had you know, I went from seeing 30 clients, a week pre pandemic, then to, you know, something much less like 14 or 18 or something like that. And I really want to support clinicians in thriving more because what I know about myself is that when I'm getting paid well, when I don't have to worry because I'm burnt out or hustling really hard to get clients. I'm a way better clinician, like can just be more regulated, present and grounded. And I think that that's one of the things that clinicians might not totally get right in the midst of their guilt of feeling bad about whatever. And I just want to basically help clinicians free themselves from this scarcity mindset, and then really thrive in ways that they most want to be able to thrive. Because isn't that kind of what we all want to do is Thrive versus survive? Yeah. So yeah, I'm passionate about doing this, I'm really excited to start the process of coaching and see how that can go because I, you know, you've been through it, I've been through it. And I think all of us go on similar journeys, for those of us that are like, exploring, going into private practice. And, you know, having a successful solo private practice allowed me to launch into a group practice, and it's allowing me to launch into, you know, launching a coaching course, for clinicians. So, that's why I want to do this.

Gordon Brewer
Awesome. Yeah, I'm reminded of something a friend, a colleague of mine, and you might not might know her as well, Casey Compton, talks about lifestyle congruence. And so yeah, and so, I think a lot of times, that's something that we need to really think about, with, with our, with our practices, and with what we do is, as I like to say, and people hear from me all the time, what is your why behind it? And so I think that's, you know, when you mentioned the soul of your practice, I think that's really, what came to mind for me is, what is your why why, yeah, yes. And, you know, if it's, if it's just to, if it's just to compete, and all of that kind of thing, you're probably gonna get burned out pretty quickly. But if it's more about, okay, this is what feeds me, this is what enriches me. That's, that's really where, where I think people thrive.

Maira Holzmann
Yeah, I'm with you. I think the deep Why is one of the one of the places to start with clinicians. You know, in my, in the coaching program that I created the deep Why is one of the things that I lead with. And then the other thing is like, what's your life experience been as a clinician because we didn't get here by accident. Most clinicians that I know got here because they were working on their own stuff, and they needed to find a way that was definitely true for me. You know, this archetype of a wounded healer isn't a bad archetype, it's a wounded healer turns into one of the best healers because they know how to support people because they've been through it. And I think that if clinicians could spend some time, and this is just even in the basics of what for me, this is like a basic and in private practice is like, why are you here? And why are you doing what you're doing? And what in your life experience has informed this? Right, because if you can also talk about that, then on your website, and with your clients, then you get this sort of, like, human element, right? So that we are in my, in my world, we're partners together on this path of healing. I know a lot, I'm trained really well. And you know, a lot and you have also been trained really well by your life, by circumstance by a lot of things. And my job is to partner with clients so that we can walk the path together. And you know, that to me is one of the things that has kept my private practice really strong is because of word of mouth, my clients feel cared for they feel safe, they and they're also getting the transformative, you know, transformation and healing that they came in to see me for. And so they're, you know, they're diehard fans, and I don't say that from an ego place, but it's more of a mutual like, I'm their diehard fan, and I'm you know, they're my diehard fan because we're just in this together,

Gordon Brewer
right? So there's a lot love this stuff. Well, Myra, I need to be respectful of your time and I'm sure we could spend hours talking about this stuff. But tell folks how they can get in touch with you and how they can find out about your coaching and that sort of thing.

Maira Holzmann
Great. Again, my name is Myra Holtzman and the coaching program for therapists that I'm launching this Monday we're here at the end of March is called more thriving therapists with an S at the end of therapist.com. And it's an online coaching program and then I also offer somatic therapy, or my team and I offer somatic therapy at my website at WWW dot somatic therapy partners.com.

Gordon Brewer
Also, also, we'll have links here in the show notes in the show summary for folks to find it easily. So well. Maura hope we can have a conversation again, thanks for being on the podcast. Thanks so

Maira Holzmann
much for having me here. Gordon.