The Practice of Therapy

Caara Lovick
Sorry, I can't accept something. Yeah.

Gordon Brewer
Second here. Okay. Okay, you can change the blurb.

Caara Lovick
Alright. Hi, I'm Karlovic and I'm happy to be here with Gordon at the Oh, shoot. Are we still recording?

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, go ahead. Okay. Okay. All right, cool.

Caara Lovick
Hi, I'm Carl avec. And I'm happy to be here with Gordon on the practice of therapy Podcast. Today we are going to be talking about what mental health experts need to know if their client is considering incorporating indigenous medicines into their healing journey.

Gordon Brewer
Hello, folks, and welcome again to the podcast. And I'm looking forward to you getting to hear from Karlovic Well,

Caara Lovick
welcome, Cara. Hi, and Gordon, thanks for having me on.

Gordon Brewer
Yes. And so this is going to be an interesting topic. I don't know that was telling Cara before we started recording, I don't think that we've ever broach this topic. And I'm really looking forward to learning a lot from Cara, just about the use of indigenous medicine, incorporating that with our practices and what we do clinically with firms. But as I start with everyone, Cara, why don't you tell folks a little more about yourself and how you've landed where you landed? Well,

Caara Lovick
I've been volunteering for healers for over nine years. And mostly I've been volunteering for traditional indigenous healers of Peru from both traditions, both Amazonian and high Andean keuro traditions. So really, I am a podcaster. And also I, I help people facilitate that work with traditional indigenous healers. And yeah, so I just focus on educating people educating everyone that wants to know a little bit about it.

Gordon Brewer
Awesome. Awesome. Yeah. So tell. Let's start from the beginning and tell folks a little bit more about this. Because I dare say that a lot of folks have not, maybe not run across this or not had any experience with it. So yeah,

Caara Lovick
yeah, I would assume so. Because it wouldn't mean we'd have to leave our own culture, to be able to, you know, venture out and we have our own systems for dealing with health, mental health. And so there's been a few people that have ventured out to see what this is about. And they've had really positive results. And really, I think that the way that we can really look at it, I mean, I'm sure you've seen or heard about Carl Jung's work. Carl Jung really believed in the power of the unconscious, the wisdom that lied there, and he believed if we could figure out how to work with it. If we could kind of decode a lot of the messages that come in, whether with dreams, synchronicities, different kinds of things like this, we could probably figure out something greater something that can really be pivotal for the client and their healing journey. In Carl Jung designed a system a discipline that has roots in the conscious world. So in order to learn about Carl Jung, we have to go to college, we have to read books, we have to write essays, we have a process. Now traditional indigenous healers have a discipline with roots in the unconscious world. So the way that they learn is through telepathy through energetics through they don't have any books, they don't have any sort of courses. It is a very different thing. So while Carl Jung is waiting for some something cool to come over from the unconscious, that is where they live. They live in the unconscious they've they've designed, they've pioneered a system that navigates that world.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, pretty well. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. That's cool. So yeah, I think one of the things that I've kind of learned over this last year, had one of my former graduate school professors, Dr. Clift glyphed, Mitchell, and he was talking about prime brain priming, and that he was just talking about what there's so much of our, of our functioning that is done on the at the unconscious level. And so I mean, that I could see how this ties in very well with that way of thinking way of, of approaching things. So, yeah, so, so with, with all of this, tell us how you see this fitting in with mental health and just how this can be helpful to people?

Caara Lovick
Well, I think that what's kind of happening is that there's a lack of continuity with the clients that we see going to South America. And we need ideally, both disciplines are running at the same time, even when a client wants to go out to say, for example, seek ayahuasca for Olivia Eating, addiction, suicide ideation, these kinds of things. We do really well with these things. But when the client goes back, they're going to need to rebuild their life. Because if we've drastically reduced or alleviated those symptoms, that person has to recreate their lives. For example, with with addiction urges, a client might have built an entire world based around this addiction. Now, when they get back, it's like, a little scary, it's a little scary, reducing the alleviating those symptoms is a very tiny part of that healing journey. That is what traditional indigenous healers, really, they do well with the exe Excel with that. But again, we don't do the day to day support. We don't have those kinds of resources, we don't have that kind of skill to offer. So ideally, both disciplines are running parallel, especially when a client is considering traditional indigenous medicines. It would be good to Yeah. Be in communication. Yeah, yeah.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah. So yeah. So can you describe a little more about kind of living in the unconscious or starting with the unconscious? Because that that might be a kind of a concept for people to get their heads around?

Caara Lovick
Yeah, it's Oh, so I think that for well, Carl Jung saw it as two things, right. We inherited this biological aspect of who we are, and then this inborn intuition aspect, right? For traditional indigenous healers, that is true or kind of all talking the same language. But for them, the physical is basically like the last frontier of manifestation, everything underneath is energetics and spiritual. That orchestration of energetics and spiritual aspects of life may be the quantum tiniest, tiniest levels of reality. That's what they study. That's what they look and understand. So when they're looking for problems, they're looking for problems in that area of the spectrum of of reality. So they've been able to design the system, they've been able to pioneer it in a very interesting way. They're very close to Mother Earth. And they have this culture where they just don't see a difference. They just see an extension of family, right. So the waterfall, the sacred mountains, the Sacred plants, they are family, because they're able to communicate with them. So this is a pre Columbian healing tradition that and that's really how it started. Now with that communication with Mother Earth with sacred mountains, they were able to then pioneer because it was those secret beings that allowed them to navigate this unconscious world. And that is really how they work every time they do healing. Whether it's ayahuasca, that's a an Amazonian medicine, they work with the sacred plant of ayahuasca. So this is a very interesting, it's a different kind of, it's a different framework than ours, because we hyper focus on the physical, which is really helpful, but they hyper focus on that world. And that is how they navigated.

Gordon Brewer
Right? Right. So with the higher WASC, I was, as I was sharing with Cara before we started recording, at, in a previous episode, we talked about the use of psychedelics in in therapy, and that there's just been a lot of efficacy around that and being able to help people kind of have kind of breakthroughs with their depression, anxiety, those kinds of things. How is this how Oska different in that sense?

Caara Lovick
Well, um, I think that psychedelic treatments are kind of the tip of the iceberg. They're the key, and people use psychedelics to kind of open the door. And in the case of ayahuasca, for example, she's very different from a psychedelic because she is alive, this is a sacred being that will enter your body or the body of, of the client, and will really coach them through their traumas coach them through their problems are very personally because she's alive. Now, you know, other psychedelic LSD, anything else is not alive. And the healer communicates and works with that sacred being which is one with that client working out things. So it is very different and also that DMT that psychoactive is just is it's just enough to open up that person's energetics and then the other work is done. But psychedelics is a talk just it's a it's like baby steps of what this world is about because you could do a lot of things without any psychedelics because of understanding this this unconscious world. So they are the are the masters when it comes to dealing with the unconscious which would include drug kind of psychedelics. They are the masters of that realm of unconscious. And that's really what we step into when we're dealing with psychedelics and things like that.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Yeah, this is this is fascinating stuff. So if somebody were interested in kind of dipping their toe in this and really kind of, kind of find out more about all of this, where would be a good starting place for them to really kind of?

Caara Lovick
Yeah, I mean, I would definitely recommend that podcast, traditional medicine, podcast with Karlovic, I really do break things down, I go with, I break down Amazonian traditions and their medicines, which include ayahuasca, Cambo, and then also the high Endian keuro tradition. They're very different, but we really I try to make sure that we're working on the basics and building foundation with some of those episodes. So I would recommend that.

Gordon Brewer
Okay, okay. That's yeah, we'll have links here for to Karros podcast here in the show notes. So yeah, so what what else do you think would be important for us to know about just this whole approach?

Caara Lovick
So let's say a client says, Gordon, I heard about ayahuasca I saw this incredible documentary, and people were alleviating, you know, depression and suicidal ideation. And you know what, I think I want to give it a go when they this, so I will ask is a very popular medicine in the Amazonian tradition, but it's not the only medicine out there. Each medicine is good for something Amazonian disciplines tend to be very tough on the body. Because you have to, you know, you have to purge, you have to have a special diet prior to drinking, and being in ceremony. There's a lot of requirements that have to happen. But there's also the high end dn keuro, disciplines that don't require any of that, and they work remotely, so a client doesn't even have to travel. So there are people, for example, that they may have psychosis, Ayahuasca is not a good thing for them. They might be pregnant, you definitely don't want to do that. So there, there's there's cases for each. There's there's medicines and disciplines for each case. And the the whole thing is that you hopefully that client will seek someone out that understands the different disciplines, different medicines and can connect them with the right kind of action plan, so to speak.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. So are there other people that are specifically trained in the in the use of these things? Yeah, well, Addison's,

Caara Lovick
yeah, well, traditional indigenous healers are, are the, the best. And there's a few reasons for that. One is that they grew up in that kind of culture. So while for example, energy healers in the modern society that we live in, maybe at 14, they're learning about concepts of energy and healing work. These children are mastering very complex concepts in these in these traditions. So we can't really compare them and especially with their own tradition, they speak the language they speak, they're in that culture. So you really, I think, I've tried all kinds of different things. It's always going to be the traditional indigenous healer that is going to do the best work. No, no question about it.

Gordon Brewer
Right. Are there are there any I know you said you primarily work with Kara? He, yeah. He lives in, in South America and Peru in this area? What about here? In the United States? You know, I think about the indigenous peoples, the various, various tribes and that sort of thing. Are there? Are there some that really kind of stand out for you as being really tuned in well, to this?

Caara Lovick
Well, um, you know, it, there's, they have some incredible medicine, for sure. I don't, that's not I haven't ventured too much into their medicines. And I have had some conversations with them about certain things, because I really feel that there needs to be some solidarity between them. They have a lot of resources that the traditional indigenous healers in the Amazon, for example, don't have and they're fighting a real fight with preserving the lungs of this planet, for example. So I've talked to them. And, you know, they have their different opinions about medicine, sometimes, you know, they don't feel that maybe some people should acquire, you know, the service exchange thing, but, you know, but also the these communities don't even have public schools. So it's kind of like there's you're standing at different places, but I yeah, I my mother's from Chile in that region. So I really felt that's my that's my, my territory, so to speak, in terms of understanding these medicines. Yeah, but I'm sure they haven't. I've come across some incredible medicine dancing, singing, they do some really beautiful work. But I don't know it as much as I do. Yeah. South Americans. Yeah.

Gordon Brewer
So how was it that you got interested in this whole thing?

Caara Lovick
Um, you know, it's a, it's a funny story, I've never really cared about any of this. It wasn't a thing for me. One day, my friend had, you know, this person wanted to try something called DMT, which is very, very strong, kind of concoction of a thing that lasts about 10 minutes. And it's really like, a strong, psychedelic. And he would talk about it, and he wanted to try it. And I was like, Oh, how fun. He's like, Yeah, you know, car, you really need to try this. And I said, I don't know. I don't care whether there is a spirit realm, whether there isn't a spirit realm has nothing to do with me. I do not really care about it. But then he was like, you know, I really want to know, you gotta check this out. I feel like I'm crazy. Is it real? Or is it not? Because I think there's a spirit realm or some sort of other aspect of life. And, yeah, he, he really begged me to do it. So I ended up doing it. And I was like, wow, this is real, but incredibly dangerous. I think I've had enough. No, no, no, you got to break through, you really got to check this out. And I just said, oh, gosh, okay, I guess I'll try that. And, and it was a really powerful experience. But afterward, I had developed a Greg phobia, you know, I couldn't come out of my, my house. I was afraid of cartoons. I mean, for two weeks, I had my best friend with me. And I said, Okay, now I'm going to have to seek professional mental health. I might be on anti-psychotics my entire life. Okay, what am I going to do? I'm thinking in these two weeks, and I said, Well, if what I saw is true, then I am going to first because I have medication always there for me. Thank goodness, that route is always there. I might even have to be institutionalized. Who knows. So I said, you know, I'm gonna seek out a a shaman. At that time. I called them shamans. I didn't know. Because I had heard people talk about it. And I found a couple in Miami, thank goodness for them. That, you know, I was able to contact and I felt something behind my back was a very weird thing. And I went to them, and they kind of got a rattle. They were kind of like a hybrid of, they just learned a little bit of everything. They weren't a traditional indigenous healer, per se. But they kind of got a rattle. And they were trying to look at my field. And I said, right here, that's where you got to see because I can feel something here. And it took them a while. But I was pretty determined not to leave there until at least they saw it. And eventually one of the man the couple, the man said, I got you, I see it, I see it. I see it in for 40 minutes did this healing. And afterward, I was done. I had no anxiety. I could breathe again. I was I was watching cartoons. I mean, everything was returned to me. And I said, Okay, how did you do that? And that started nine years ago. And I said, I'm not going anywhere until I really understand what's happening. Because what you're telling me is, you've done something to me, that has affected my entire body without giving me anything. You haven't given me a pill, you haven't done anything. I've tried everything. And I could not shake this off. So yeah, we're gonna have to get to the bottom of that. And that's how I started volunteering for people, which eventually led me to really the strongest medicines that we have here in the Americas, I would believe.

Gordon Brewer
Wow. Wow. That's fascinating. Yeah, well, Cara, I want to be respectful of your time. And, and this has been a great, great conversation, tell folks how they can find out more, and maybe connect with you and your podcast and that sort of thing.

Caara Lovick
Yeah, if you if you're on Instagram, I love making friends, traditional medicine, Miami's the way that you can find me. And the podcast is available pretty much everywhere. If you're on Spotify, traditional medicine, podcast with Karlovic is the podcast and you can always reach out also on traditional medicine miami.com and send me a message and I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have. And, and yeah, we'd love to connect people. Yeah,

Gordon Brewer
awesome. Also may well have have links in the show notes in the show summary for people to access it easily. When they go to look it up and I'm going to be down. I'm going to be following your podcast here shortly.

Caara Lovick
Great. Great. Looking forward to it. Yeah, thank you so much, Gordon.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, well, thanks. Thanks, Cara. Cara and wall I will be in touch again I'm sure

Caara Lovick
yes definitely thank you so much