The Practice of Therapy

Unknown Speaker
Okay, did the blur. All right?

Kelly McKenna
Hi, everybody. My name is Kelly McKenna. You can find me on Instagram at sit with Kelly. And I'm a licensed therapist here to talk to you today all about how I built my cash paid private practice on Instagram. So that sounds like something you're looking to do. Stick around.

Unknown Speaker
How was that? Perfect. Cool.

Gordon Brewer
Well, hello, everyone, and welcome again to the podcast. And I'm looking forward to you getting to know Kelly McKenna. Welcome, Kelly.

Kelly McKenna
Thank you. I'm glad to be here today. Yes. And

Gordon Brewer
when Kelly reached out to me about just how she's built her practice using Instagram, particularly a cache based practice, I thought, this is going to be interesting. And so Kelly is a start with everyone. Why don't you tell folks a little bit about how you've landed where you've landed and what you're doing now?

Kelly McKenna
Sure. So I went to grad school at Florida State University. And I actually did a dual degree to get my Masters of Social Work and a Masters of Business Administration at the same time. And I did that because I really wanted to go into like nonprofit leadership, and, you know, understand all the business stuff behind that. So I spent, you know, my first seven years of my career out of grad school in nonprofit management, working with homeless youth and homeless veterans, and it was really fulfilling. But I was starting to feel a little bit disconnected from why I got my Masters of Social Work to begin with. So much of my job had become like marketing and accounting and supervision and that kind of stuff that I really miss doing the clinical work. And so I decided to work for someone else's group practice. And I had my first session, like one week before COVID hit. And so I very quickly transitioned in that group practice to doing telehealth online with those clients. And I was so surprised by like how much I was really enjoying doing the therapy work again. And I was working full time at my nonprofit management job. And I was seeing clients through the group practice in the evenings. And I was just like, so looking forward to my nine to five ending so I could do that therapy. And so I kind of started to think about like, what if I transition my career a little bit and open my own private practice. So I started off slowly, and I kind of transitioned out of the group practice to see more folks on my own. And I was taking insurance panels at this time. And I knew I really wanted to make the leap into full time private practice. But the number of clients I was going to need to see with insurance panels was just not sustainable for the lifestyle I was looking for. So I started my Instagram page in October 2020. With the idea of attracting more cash pay clients. And since then I was able to quit my job like six months later, full time got off insurance panels. And it's been amazing ever since.

Gordon Brewer
Wow. Well, yeah. What I love about that story is I think it's typical for a lot of us that started out in agency work or working in nonprofits. And that kind of thing is just it's, you don't, and the thing that appeals to I think most of us in private practice is just the, the autonomy of it all, and being able to, you know, really kind of set our own schedules, and you know, what we get paid and all that kind of thing.

Kelly McKenna
Yeah, yeah, I find for most therapist, like the business side is what holds people back for so long from going out on their own. And so I was really grateful that to me that like, wasn't the scary part. It was more so like, Am I ready to do this clinically? Right. I've been out of clinical work for so long, and kind of building the confidence in that again. And so I love you know, helping to teach therapists like the business side, too, since most of us aren't taught that in grad school.

Gordon Brewer
Right. Right. So what was it like for you getting off the insurance panels? I know. That's been a transition a lot of people have made as well going, yeah, just purely cash based.

Kelly McKenna
So, you know, one thing that I think is helpful in terms of marketing is when your insurance based, right, especially right now, we're in the middle of a mental health crisis, there's a lot of demand for therapist. And so people are really just looking to see, like, what their purpose is in network with my insurance and who has availability. But when you're trying to build a cash pay practice, you really need to do a lot more marketing and it needs to be strategic, because your potential clients need to make the shift from I'm just looking for a therapist, to oh my gosh, he or she totally understands exactly what I'm going through. I need this person to be my therapist. And that's kind of what allows people to go out of network, right. And they're willing to put in that little bit of extra work on their end, you know, the extra costs up front in order to make that transition. And so for me, I think it was really about marketing. And then if you want, we can talk about what that was like with my existing caseload and how we kind of transitioned some of them. Yeah,

Gordon Brewer
so yeah, why don't we just jump into that, and then we'll get to really just thinking about, you know, what kinds of things you post on Instagram to attract those cash paying clients? Yeah.

Kelly McKenna
So when I was transitioning off of insurance panels, I actually give my clients a lot of time, probably like too much time that I would recommend. So I gave them like six months notice, and I let them know, you know, it'd be transitioning off of insurance panels. At this time, I talked with them about what Adam network looks like, and gave them the option of either, you know, working towards meeting their treatment goals in that time, going out of network, or me connecting them with an in network provider. And I would say it was pretty split, like 1/3 1/3 1/3, that took each option. So about 1/3 felt like they were ready to kind of move on and try things on their own without a therapist, like a third said, you know, I called my insurance company, I have no out of network benefits. Like there's no way this is going to work for me. And then the other third calls, and we're, like, happily surprised to see how much the out of network benefits would cover and that not really that much was gonna change.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah. So what sort of time period did this take? About six

Unknown Speaker
months? Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Kelly McKenna
Now, when I've talked with therapists, I typically recommend three months, because I think it kind of created, you know, some anxiety in the beginning. And then there wasn't a lot of movement right away, right, it was kind of like dropping this bomb. And then, you know, sit and wait, who knows what's gonna happen in six months? Right. But I do think it is important to give people enough time to process right, you don't want your clients to feel like you're abandoning them. And so making sure that there's appropriate time to transfer care for them to figure out finances?

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, not thinking anytime somebody makes a big transition in their practice like that. I know, like, one of the things that I did in my practice is transition from having just contractors to employees is to is to set a date for that and, and work towards that date of just Okay, and this is kind of the drop dead date of when you when you make that transition. Yeah, yeah. So yeah. So I think what most people are going to be curious about is, what are the things that you're posting on Instagram that are helping attract cash pay clients?

Kelly McKenna
Yeah. So I think first off, is you really need to niche down as a therapist, especially on social media when you're trying to build a cash pay practice. And, again, we're trying to help, you know, potential clients make that shift from looking for any therapists who really need to you to be their therapist. So it's not enough to say, you know, I work with women dealing with mental health issues, including anxiety, depression, relationships, trauma, eating disorders, right? Because your content isn't going to speak directly to any one person. If you're trying to speak to everybody, it's going to like, kind of resonate with everybody, but nobody's going to say like, oh, my gosh, this disease. And so I think a lot of therapists are hesitant to niche down on Instagram, especially because in the beginning, right, we all start with zero followers. And so you want it to be applicable to a lot of people, I get that kind of urge. But you're really kind of shooting yourself in the foot. So first, I think is trying to pick like an image of one person, whether that's a previous client, a sister or friend, you know, you in a former stage of your life, but like literally write all of that down and think of one ideal person you're trying to attract, and make contact with that person in mind. So for me, it's a mixture of like psychoeducation. So my niece she has really like anxiety, but with kind of, like those overachieving perfectionist millennial woman. And so some of my content is helping people to even see like, what anxiety is, right? So maybe like five things you didn't know were anxiety or five things, people with anxiety, wish you understood. So some of it is like kind of that type of psychoeducation some of it is like, you know, helpful tips about how to set boundaries or mindfulness or that kind of thing. And then I love reels for kind of, you know, that relatable content. You know, maybe something that runs through someone's mind with anxiety or a struggle that they have, where they see it and they kind of giggle and say like, oh my gosh, this is so me. Yeah, that's definitely an important part of the content strategy, too.

Gordon Brewer
Sure, sure, yeah. And you resonate, or really did out every bit of that as far as the importance of creating a niche, niche niche, how Reapered for her say that, but being being able to really clearly define who are your ideal clients, because you're right, when you cast a broad net, I was, in my, in my practice launch club members, I was explaining this to them, you know, it's kind of like going out and fishing with a net. And if you're just, if you're out in the open water, and you're casting a net to catch fish, you're probably not going to catch many. But if you go to where those fish are, and you know exactly what kind of fish you're going to catch, you're probably going to have a whole lot better luck of going after a specific type of fish in a certain area. And so, yeah, and so I think being able to define your niche is crucial to any sort of marketing, whether it's on social media or any of that.

Kelly McKenna
Totally, I think too. So often, when people hear Instagram, they get really nervous that like, they're going to need to build this huge following, and they don't have you know, the time or energy or less money than a goal for them. And so I do like to share, you know, when I started my Instagram page, I got my first self pay client with like, 1000 followers on Instagram. I had had my page for maybe like two months. And so it wasn't huge. Right now. I'm almost at 30,000. And I know that that looks a lot different. But you absolutely don't need that many followers to build the cash pay practice. Right. My case that has been full since I was at like 5000 followers a day, folks. Now it's about kind of marketing like those other offers.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Yeah. So are have you been doing any sort of paid, paid? Or is it all been organic on Instagram?

Kelly McKenna
So I don't run any paid ads. So all the growth has been organic. I would say the only like paid has been, I've worked with a couple brands that have like paid me to promote their products or their services. And sometimes they'll run ads from those post. But I've never liked that any kind of ad budget or anything on my page.

Gordon Brewer
Wow. Wow. So yeah, so that's a whole other opportunity there about getting sponsorships for Instagram. say some more about that.

Kelly McKenna
Yeah. So I just started doing that in like February. I have a course for therapists. And they keep asking me like, when are you going to add a module on brand deals, and I'm like, I just want to get a little bit more time to feel like an expert in that area. But I actually just on Friday crossed like $20,000 and brand deals, which is amazing, right? Like, that's a huge revenue stream for me that I did not even think like when I started my Instagram page, that was not a goal of mine. There's a way to get therapy clients. And so it's been really cool kind of working with, you know, brands, I've done some stuff with, like, journal companies. You know, a gym that I go to now is giving me like a free membership. What else have I done, like, some of the telemedicine companies for, like prescribing so I don't do any for therapists and telehealth, but I do some with like, you know, prescribing to get into the process and that kind of stuff. And it's really cool to kind of create content that I normally wouldn't be talking about anyways. Right? And then really using it to kind of like position these brands as a potential solution that can help anxious millennial woman.

Gordon Brewer
Sure, sure. So how did you how did you find those different brands that were doing that? Or did you they reach out to you or did you reach out to them? Or how did that work?

Kelly McKenna
Yeah, so mostly they've been reaching out to me, I would say, once I got past that like 10k follower Mark, I really started to get a larger influx and brand deal request. And I am pretty selective with the brand deals I take on for a couple of reasons. I think one, there's a lot of ethics with therapists, right? And so I don't want to a recommend something I don't truly believe in or like I don't want my page to feel salesy, either, right. So I might do one or two brand posts a month, but it's not going to be like every third or fourth post. And so I typically wait for like those higher paying brand deals that really feel aligned to my content, rather than doing one for a few $100 Here and there. So that's been helpful. I would say most of the brands I've reached out to have not been super successful and getting like paid collaborations. It's mostly been brands that like I really enjoy and they send me free stuff or give me a free Your membership or whatever, but less when I reach out, are they willing to pay at this point?

Gordon Brewer
Right? Right. Yeah, that that's fascinating. And I think the other thing, too, that this is really kind of done for you, Kelly, and this is something that I really encourage every a lot of therapists to do is to diversify their income streams. Yeah. Because as we know, the ups and downs of having a therapy practice, you're going to have months that are slow, or whatever, and having that additional income coming in, kind of helps buffer all of that.

Kelly McKenna
Totally, especially like, we know, summer is slow. We know like, you know, some of the December tends to be slow. And so it is important to, you know, plan ahead, whether that's other income streams, or just kind of how you're paying yourself throughout the year, too.

Gordon Brewer
Right. Right. So I know that you're, you're starting to help some other therapists with, with putting all this in place. So tell tell folks about all of that. Well, so I

Kelly McKenna
kind of have like two different ways that I do that. One is like a really comprehensive program that's called Private Practice Academy. And that really walks you through absolutely everything you need to know to get your practice off the ground. So you know, how do you incorporate? Like, what forms do you use meet with clients? How do you build that kind of stuff? And then there's like another five modules in the course all about marketing on Instagram. So you go really in depth about how to identify your niche? How do you actually create those cute posts that you see everyone make on Instagram, what makes a good post? How do we make content that saleable and shareable and all that good stuff, and then teaching you tutorials for filming reels as well. And then I have kind of like a lower ticket offer, that's my real is membership for therapist. And that's just $37 a month. And that's really designed for therapists to already started their Instagram page, but they're either not seeing so much traction with reels yet, or they are but they're just not creating them super consistently, because they don't have the time or the energy or creativity to kind of come up with these ideas. And so with that membership, you get a weekly email every Monday morning, with four trending reels ideas that are totally thought out for you. So you have like your trending sound, I give you a hook that you can use with like any niche, you know, so one that I sent out this morning was like, four ways to improve access summer. And I guess some examples, so like four ways to improve your body Image four ways to spice up your sex life, or ways to make new friends, right. And then kind of having the audio all the filming instructions and that kind of thing. So really kind of makes it easier for therapists to kind of create these rules, because we know real, they're being pushed on the Instagram algorithm right now. And to kind of take out the guesswork of it. And you know, be able to film a reel that you know, is going to work in like five minutes.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Yeah. Oh, it's fascinating stuff. Is there a? Do you have a preferred platform that you'd like to use for content creation on Instagram?

Kelly McKenna
Yeah. So I create all of my reels like within the Instagram app itself? And then for my graphics? I use Canva. Yeah, which is, I don't know if you're familiar, but it's really easy and simple to use. Yeah.

Gordon Brewer
I love Canva. I use it, use it all the time with all of my graphics. And yeah, I know, my virtual assistant, Rachel, who, who really curates and puts together all of my Instagram posts, uses Canva, as well. So So yeah, that's great. So well, any parting thoughts that she I want to be respectful of your time, Kelly, but what sort of parting thoughts do you have about just all of this that maybe would be encouraging to folks?

Kelly McKenna
Yeah, I think it's really just about like showing up. You know, in the beginning, you have to post when literally, nobody is watching, right. And that can feel kind of cringy or embarrassing, or you might not feel ready. But the more you show up, the more that you post, the more that you were like your true authentic self, that audience is going to start to grow over time. Most people quit, I think around like the 500 or 1000 follower mark, because they're not seeing that growth fast enough. But the first 1000 followers is the absolute hardest to get. So you have kind of no authority yet. Right? Your page is brand new, there's not a lot of content for people to look at. And so if you can be consistent and kind of work through that, the growth will come and the clients will come. And so kind of just like, you know, taking that risk and putting yourself out there.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, yeah. It's my, my mantra with all of that is to be persistent and consistent with things and yeah, I think the other thing too, for people to remember is no ever, never compare your beginning point to somebody else's middle point. And so you've been doing it a while. And so where were you growing this huge following? You started, like you said earlier? Zero. Yeah, people need to remember that. Yeah. So I

Kelly McKenna
started with zero followers. And I didn't tell any friends or family until I hit 500. Because I was just like, so embarrassed to be posting Oh, yeah, nervous. But it's been a wild ride the past two years.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Well, Kelly, tell folks how they can get in touch with you and your website and all that sort of thing.

Kelly McKenna
Yeah, so really simple. It's set with Kelly. And you can find me on Instagram or Tiktok. if that's more your jam, my website is that with kelly.com and you'll see on all of those pages, links to you know, my rails membership or private practice academy or my email list or any way else that you want to stay in touch.

Gordon Brewer
Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks, Kelly for being on the podcast. And folks, be sure and reach out to Kelly on Instagram or Tiktok. And, or her website. And hopefully we'll have another conversation again. Here, Kelly.

Kelly McKenna
Yep. Thank you. It's great talking with you.