The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer:
Well, hello everyone. And welcome again to the practice of therapy podcast. And I'm so happy to have Jennifer Snead in with me today. And Jennifer glad you're here.
Jennifer Sneeden:
Thank you so much. I love what you're doing with your podcast and I'm so happy to be part of it.
Gordon Brewer:
Yes. Well, thank you. And for those of you that don't know about Jennifer, I'm glad for you to get to know her and we're going to have just a wonderful, I know we're going to have a great conversation here today. Jennifer is another cohort in this whole private practice consulting space and she's located in South Florida. And Jennifer reached out to me and we started chatting and I realized she would be a perfect yes for the podcast. And we're going to be talking about just how do you manage marketing during times of crisis? And, but Jennifer, like how, like, as I like to start with everyone, please tell folks about your private practice journey and kinda how you landed, where you've laid.
Jennifer Sneeden:
Yeah. So I'm not sure if you're familiar with the work of the Gottman's, but the comments talk about masters and disasters of relationships. Well, I believe there are also masters and disasters of private practice and I absolutely started in the disaster category. I opened my private practice in 2007 and I agonized over just the right leather couch. I was doing hypnotherapy. So I had to have the right leather couch. And then I spent weeks perfecting my business cards is this blue to blue and you know, is the font big enough? And I got everything just the way I wanted it. And there I was sitting in my office all by myself. I like it. It never occurred to me that I was going to have to Mark it. Like people weren't just going to magically show up. So that first year in private practice, I spent a lot of time alone on my beautiful other couch, appreciating the business cards and no clients.
Jennifer Sneeden:
And I started to get a little bit entitled, like, well, where are the clients? I'm a good therapist. I spent all of this time in school. I, where are my clients? And then it took me a few months to realize that getting entitled was not going to solve the problem either. So I did what everybody else does. I want to every panel that would take me and I started getting clients at an average reimbursement rate of $43 an hour. Now this was not going to get me to where I wanted to go. Right. I could not get to where I wanted to go at $43 an hour. And so a couple of years into it, I realized I'm a business person. I'm an entrepreneur. Yes, I have these therapists letters after my name, but by nature of being in private practice, I had to be a business.
Jennifer Sneeden:
And this is very much what you talk about in the money matters piece. Right? And for me, it was the marketing I had to learn to market. And so I just made myself a student of marketing for about 18 months. And I was so, so, so bad at, I can't even tell you. And then I wasn't quite so bad. And then I started to get clients and then I went off panels and then I became one of the most expensive therapists in my area. And then I started a group practice and I realized I'm not the only one that sucks at this stuff. There's a lot of great therapists out there who don't know how to market and are relying on panels because they don't know how to get clients any other way. And so I launched my current business thriving therapy practice in 2010 and have been coaching therapists ever since on how to market yourself, how to, how to create a revenue model of fee structure that actually creates a win win for you and your clients. And I actually, now I'm a total marketing junkie. I love it, but it was, it took me awhile to get here because I never realized how important that was going to be to my success.
Gordon Brewer:
Right, right. And that's the same story I hear from so many people just really thinking about, you know, how do you get yourself out there? Because I think most of us, your story is similar to so many of us, you know, we we get to put all of our effort into trying to create the perfect office and we'll just kind of follow our dream and, and open the doors and then break it. Yeah. You know? And so I think that is just so true for so many people. So yeah. So as you think about marketing, what's kind of your philosophy around that in terms of
Jennifer Sneeden:
Yeah. So the marketing I teach is called, give, give, get marketing. My philosophy is very much come from a place of service. What is it that your clients need and how can I help them? So if we think about you with this podcast, you are putting out to the world, you're not asking for anything. You're just showing up episode after episode, providing great value to people that desperately need it. Now some of those people will listen to your podcast for years and that's all they need from you. But many of them will say, Oh my gosh, this guy is fantastic and they'll want to work with you. They'll want to join your program. And you're, you're coming at it, not from a common, by my program perspective, you're coming at it from how can I serve? And that is a big mind shift for a lot of psychotherapists. And so I teach all ways, like, how do you, your clients or your marketing, because when you can come from adding real value, the clients will naturally show up. When you come at it, like I'm chasing clients. I need clients. I got to get clients like, where are you? Where are you? I got to get you, I got to snatch you up before you call somebody else. Not only does that feel icky, but it actually kind of repels the clients that you're seeking.
Gordon Brewer:
Right. Right. Yeah. And what I've learned as to add to that is, is that, you know, marketing is just something very simple in that is it's about relationship building, which is what we do. Is there a state? Yeah. And so just being able to get that mindset, mindset change around marketing is just being able to build relationships in the community and you know, that whole battle well, it's not home, but the, the whole acronym of no, like, and trust, it's not an equity with descriptor, but but anyway, just that idea of know, like, and trust, you know, people, once they get to know you and they like you, then they'll trust you. And those are where you get your clients. That's where you get the
Jennifer Sneeden:
Absolutely. You know, one of my early marketing coaches, like 2009, 2010, he said to me, 80% of marketing is empathy. And I was like, Whoa, I have a lot of education and empathy, a lot of education in relationships. And the moment he said that I was like, I can do this. I can do this. Cause I can do empathy. And as you said, I could do relationship and I got it. And that was a big shift for me to think of it from that perspective, rather than I need clients, I need clients, I need calls.
Gordon Brewer:
Right. Right. And also it's, I think it's important to remember that, that big be genuine about it as well. I mean, because people can see through that. I mean, just be yourself. I mean, that's what people will connect with.
Jennifer Sneeden:
That's so true. And don't be afraid to be a human. I think sometimes as a psychotherapist, we're taught that we have to be kind of robotic, you know, it's okay. If your clients see a picture of your dog by promise it's okay.
Gordon Brewer:
Right, right. Yeah, absolutely. So yeah. So one of the things I know we talked about before we started recording is just you know, being aware of the times that we're in, as we're recording this, we're here at the end of June and we're still an unknown for you there in South Florida kind of had that second way, the COVID-19 stuff. And it's just really, I think a lot of us are feeling just really anxious about, okay, what do we do about marketing during these hard times? Should we even put effort into it? Should what, what should we do? And I know you've been thinking about that and actually wrote a book about it and we're going to share more about that as well. But so yeah. So what are your thoughts on all that?
Jennifer Sneeden:
Yeah, so the book is absolutely all about this book is called attracting clients in uncertain times. And it is the guidebook for those therapists that as you said, some people are questioning. Should I even be marketing? Like it is, is it even ethical to be marketing? So I want to start there because this is something I feel extremely passionate about. And let me start by saying, there has never been a greater need for psychotherapy services than there is right now. There is so much global psychic trauma that I can't even turn on the news because I get so flooded and there who's going to make this better than New York times. No, they are not going to make it better. CNN. No, they're not going to make it better. Who would be the best possible people to have a voice in shifting this into a better place into allowing us to get through all of this difficulty, our psychotherapists.
Jennifer Sneeden:
I mean, this is what we do. And when we can step up and say, I'm here to help. I am here to give you exactly what you need to me. That is the greatest service that we can offer to clients. And when we hide, we don't do anybody, any service whatsoever because they don't know who to go to for help. And when, when Grover's first kind of kicked in here in South Florida, March 13th is the date that they shut our schools down. So that's kind of the date embedded in my mind, but when it really started to take off, I freaked out I Gordon, I just laid on my couch, scrolling through newsfeeds. Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh, look at this and look at this. And I was like, so I was addicted. I could have put it down. And I did that for about four days and I started looking for somebody to help me.
Jennifer Sneeden:
And there was nobody out there talking about this. And I woke up on the fifth day and I said, Jennifer, you just have to start talking about this. And I did a Facebook live that got over a thousand views. And I was like, okay, this is it. We need to have this conversation. And so I started really rallying my clients of the out there, get interviewed, do the lives, send out the emails, whatever it is that you need to do because your clients desperately need you. When you think of marketing, as I need to get clients, I need to get clients. That's, that's not the mindset you want. But when you think about marketing, in terms of people need you now more than they have ever needed you before and you just need to be there and show up for. Right.
Gordon Brewer:
Right. I totally agree. And that's you know, I think one of the things that I've, you know, even in the media, we're just hearing more and more about how much mental health help is needed. Cause it's just you know, it's just a, there's there's this whole how I like to refer to it as that cloud of anxiety, that's hanging over all of us. I think it's, you know, I think better to help people with that, then those of us that are trained to kind of talk to people and help them work through anxiety. And I know I've been making extra trips to want there, but through all of this as well. So I mean, yeah, I think you're exactly right. Is veils the time to get the word out, make sure people know how we can help. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So what else are you? If somebody maybe trying to decide if they should Mark it or how they should market that sort of thing. What are some things that you're hearing from your people and what you, what sort of advice you give around that?
Jennifer Sneeden:
So if I may break this into two questions, Gordon, okay. The first question is about the decision. Cause this is a real hot button for me. And then the second, I'm happy to talk about techniques and strategies. So if you approach your business, whether today smack in the middle of COVID or three years from now, when this is all behind us, if you're approaching this from a, Oh my gosh, should I hope? I don't know. Is it even possible? Is this going to work out? Let me just tell you right now, just stop and take a week off because that energy, when you bring that energy, you absolutely are not going to get the results that you want. So and I was having a coaching call with a client a couple of weeks ago. And she was telling me that she's not getting clients, she's not getting the calls.
Jennifer Sneeden:
So, you know, we were talking through what's she doing? And all of that. And I said, it was, and she was walking me through her day. And I said, so you're sitting down at your computer ready to market at your marketing time, like three in the afternoon. She schedules for marketing. What's going through your mind. And instantly without a second thought, she said panic. And I said, no, you're not going to be, when you're approaching marketing with panic, you're going to be bringing the wrong energy. You're going to be taking the wrong actions and therefore you're going to be getting the wrong outcomes. So the first thing that I want everybody to do is make a decision. I am going to make it through this crisis and I'm going to come out stronger than ever. Because if you can make that decision, your now you're, you're now coming at it from a very empowered position. If you're coming at it from, I don't know, should I, and do I even have permission? And what do clients think then, then you're not coming at it with your, you're not coming at it from an empowered position and you're not going to get the inspiration. So first and foremost, don't try to do anything until you've decided you're going to be successful.
Gordon Brewer:
Yeah. I love that because that's all about mindset and just really being there. It's I like to tell people, you know, give yourself permission to change your mind about some things. Yeah. And I think that's a, that's a big part of it. I mean, it's a, we could get off on a whole tangent just around mindset, particularly around money that, but marketing is very similar in a way. And that use marketing to kind of help us generate, to generate the clients, to, to make the money, just make there's a scarcity. Sometimes there can be a scarcity mindset with marketing in terms like we have with money at times.
Jennifer Sneeden:
Absolutely. Very often the mindset you have about money is the mindset that you bring to marketing. Because for many of us money, money and marketing are connected, almost synonymous. And if you're, if you're thinking there's not enough money to go around, then you're probably going to be thinking there aren't enough clients to go around and Gordon, if you get a client today, that's one fewer client for me. Right. And that mindset is not going to get you the results that you want.
Gordon Brewer:
Right? Yeah. Say a little more about that because that's pretty, it intriguing to me just about, you know, how can somebody make the shift with their mindset? You know, what, what's the case for changing your mind about?
Jennifer Sneeden:
Yeah, this is such a good, it's such a good question. It is. It's almost like the actions you take are not going to get the results that you want. If you don't come with the mindset of, I have something of great value to offer to the world and I am putting it out there to connect with clients and people who work with me. I began finding clients or getting clients from their vocabulary because those are, those are both scarcity terms. I've got to get clients and, Oh, there he is. Let me grab him before he goes away. Right. Or I've got to find him, I've got to look around. It's all about attracting clients. It's all about putting your best work out there and knowing that people are going to want to work with you. But when you've got that scarcity mindset, you're terrified to put your work out there. And it's probably okay. But when you've got this mindset of, I have something of significance to share with the world and it's okay for me to do it. Now you're going to be taking those strategies and that really connect you with those people.
Gordon Brewer:
Right? Right. One thought that occurs to me, as you were saying that Jennifer is rather than a mindset of, I've got to go find clients is you set things up so that clients can find you because they need a want our services and so on. And so it's just a matter of being able to make yourself be found and make yourself available to two people so that they can find you.
Jennifer Sneeden:
Yes. And I talk a lot about this in my book. I have a whole chapter, I call it overcoming and visibility. So many therapists are their own best kept secrets. And they, they want a six figure practice. They want to make an impact on the world. They want to make the world a better place. And they're seeing six clients a week or making 40 grand a year. And there's this huge gap between where they are and where they really see themselves. And if you're not approaching that gap from a place of possibility, it can get a little bit discouraging.
Gordon Brewer:
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I love this stuff, but just thinking about how we would do this. And, and I think, you know, with the, at least the trend that I've seen where we're, you know, we've been fortunate here where I live, we've not been affected that much by the COVID-19 virus, but, you know, actually I saw more of an increase, even though we were, we had switched over to a hundred percent tele-health through April and may. And the end of March to April and may. We were just as busy during that period doing tele-health as we were, you know, doing fussing and folks face to face. Now we've transitioned back to the office. We're keeping an eye on things and, you know, taking all the necessary precautions that we feel like we can take, but it's not slowed down at all. And I think a big part of it was is that we had really made up our minds that, okay, let's make sure people know that we're still available and that we are here and we're here to help. And that was just, that was just you know, w didn't label it marketing at the time, but that's what it was.
Jennifer Sneeden:
Yeah. In marketing terms, I would call that assuring stability. I'm here for you. Yes. We're going to be on zoom, but I am still here for you, just like I always was. And that's exactly what clients need to hear right now.
Gordon Brewer:
Right, right, right. Yeah. So go ahead.
Jennifer Sneeden:
If I could just speak for a minute of you being busier than ever, that is a sign of a very healthy practice. So I noticed that my clients who are in let's call it the upper six figures, you know, maybe 200,000 and above, maybe one 50 to 200,000 a year have not been at all impacted revenue wise by this. They still have the client flow. They transition people over to tele-health. They have just kind of, not even been an issue, particularly those clinicians that have private pay practices where I've seen people interrupted. And this is a little harsh, but I really, I feel like I'm really need to say it. The people who have been the most interrupted are either new practices that never got the foundation going, or those practices that didn't have a system in place for their business yet. So they didn't have a system for client flow.
Jennifer Sneeden:
They didn't have a system for outreach. They didn't have a strong presence that made them visible. And then what happened when everything shut down is these problems bubbled up. And what I, what I have seen from this tier, the newer clients and the clients that were just sort of getting buy into all of this hit was there are no new problems. It's just their, their problems that they could tolerate or problems that they could kind of ignore. And now they can no longer ignore them. And because of this, they're now really in a scarcity of clients.
Gordon Brewer:
Right. Right. Yeah. And I think that's a, you know, and I think about people starting, maybe just getting started with their practice. There's one of the things that I've seen when you mentioned, you know, practices that are in, you know, the six figure range in terms of their income, like once you reach a critical mass of Koreans, it's like the it's like the spicket gets turned on at that point. And so a big part of it is just in those early stages is like, we, like we said already is making sure people can find you lots of, you know, lots of different ways, but also, like you said, not sticking your head in the sand, around the business side of things and being, making sure that you understand that again, you're talking my language, gotta know your numbers, you gotta know, you know, where things are coming in, where they're going out and understand how all that fits together. So, yeah.
Jennifer Sneeden:
So I actually, I would kind of conceptualize as a little bit, a little differently that I think there is the expectation, again, particularly in new practices that they reach critical mass. And then as you said, the speaking has turned off, but I think you have to learn to turn the spicket off. When you start in practice, you just kind of presume that clients will find you, but in order to reach that critical mass, you've got to do that spigot turning on work of knowing what to charge, being visible, able to convert clients, like all of these things. And if you don't yet have the client flow, or as you say, the critical mass that you want, it's nothing more than an indication that you have not yet fully learned how to turn that spigot.
Gordon Brewer:
Right. Right. Totally agree with that. Yeah. Wow. We could talk for hours. I'm sure. Jennifer on this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. But I want to be respectful of your time and I'm so glad you came on to the podcast. So tell folks how they can get your book and also how they can talk to you if they'd like to get in touch with you.
Jennifer Sneeden:
Yeah, absolutely. So my book is available either on Amazon or you can get it through our website@theattractingclientsbook.com. And if you get it from our website, we've got a few little goodies that we're offering as part of it. And it's the attracting clients book.com. The book is called attracting clients in uncertain times. And I am really excited about this because this really is the guide book to get your business, not just through COVID, but come through stronger than ever, which is what I want for everybody. If you want to learn more about me, my website is Jennifer sneddon.com or I'm on social media at Jennifer,
Gordon Brewer:
Right. And we'll have all these links in the show notes and the show summary for people to get easy access to. So well, Jennifer, thanks again for being on here. And I know I'm already, when we talked about this ahead of time, one of the things that we're new on a followup episode with here in the near future is just around money, mindset and money. How money matters in your practice and sharing your expertise on how to price your practices can be something that's going to be really interesting to folks.
Jennifer Sneeden:
Perfect. I love it. Thank you so much.
Gordon Brewer:
All right. Take care. Thank you.