Gordon Brewer: Well, hello everyone and welcome again to the podcast and I'm excited for you to get to know today. Katie Piura. Welcome, Katie. Glad you're here.
Katie Piura: Thanks, Gordon. Thank you for having me. I've been listening to your podcast and I love how you make e every guest feel welcomed and at ease and all the great tools you teach to clinicians.
Gordon Brewer: Well, thanks. Thanks. Yeah. I'm just glad, I'm glad to have you here. And, um, Katie, as I start with everyone, tell folks a little more about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed.
Katie Piura: Yeah. Thank you Gordon. So, yes, so I'm a licensed therapist coach and also I'm the founder of Haven Youth Counseling, which is a practice located in the Miami area and also serves at DC metro area.
So I started. Working in, in agencies like government settings, uh, university settings, nonprofits, and throughout my time there, I realized that I wanted to continue to helping clients, but I wanted to help clients differently. I realized that in those settings there was a lot of experiences that I gained.
But I was starting to experience some kind of burnout. And so it wasn't until I got hired to work at a group practice, um, in the DC area where I was practicing before that I really started enjoying the private practice side of things and realized that I also had an entrepreneurship side. So, mm-hmm.
Entrepre entrepreneurship actually. Runs in my family, like my parents are entrepreneurs, a lot of my family members are entrepreneurs, and I didn't realize that I also had that skill in me. So I started, you know, in working at a group practice, I started, uh, realizing how the business side of private practice could intersect with the clinical side.
And now I started my own practice and help clinicians also start their own.
Gordon Brewer: And I know as we were just kind of chatting about a little bit before we started, and also just what I know about you is, is that you had brought up the fact that most graduate programs don't teach us any of the, the business skills or the, the entrepreneurial side or the operational side of running a practice.
And so it's stuff, as I like to say, we have to learn the hard way and, I think it's good that we have folks like you that are willing to teach folks about all of that. And so, yeah. So I know one of the things that is a big part of this, a big piece of this, or the mindset changes we have to make.
So what have you learned about that and what did you notice when you went into private practice that that changed for you? And just thinking about it all?
Katie Piura: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. That's a really, really good question. So one of the things that I realized when I went into private practice is that I thought that I knew it all, that I thought because I had this.
Entrepreneurship sort of side of me and passionate side of me and that because I also had so many years being a clinician that was gonna be sufficient for me to start a practice on a strong foundation. And I was really, like I did, there was like this huge knowledge gap as well. Because like you said earlier, Gordon graduate programs are not in.
Don't typically incorporate business training in their curriculum. And so there was a lot of unknowns for me that I was s starting things basically on trial and error. And I was like I said, I, I thought that I, I didn't really need a lot of help and in my work with clinicians now, I also just.
Discover that there are other clinicians who feel the same way because because we are helpers, we believe that we might not need help ourselves. And so that really deters clinicians from seeking support when it comes to the business side of things. And so I realize that on my own and I realized with the clinicians that I help.
And so one of those mindset shifts. Is that is sort of like how do you take off the helper hat and receive help yourself. Mm-hmm. It is important for your practice to have a strong foundation for you to also learn about business strategies and learn a little bit more of the intersection of.
The clinical side of things and the business side.
Gordon Brewer: Oh, right, right. And I, I would add to that, that I think anyone going into private practice, it's always good to have supports available for you. Because, yeah, it can get really lonely in private practice, especially as a solo practitioner of just not having the people to network with or just bounce ideas off of and all of that sort of thing, particularly around the business side of things.
I know. I'm grateful for the mastermind group that I'm part of with my good friends. And it just helps me when we get together just kind of talk through things. I mean, it's kinda like therapy in a way, but it's not.
Katie Piura: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think I am also grateful. So for me it was like I had mentors who were coaching me.
Mm-hmm. Um, I think that the, I think that the hard part is when you're first charting out is, you know, the investment that you can have on certain things is limited. But thankfully I had, you know, some. Some of my mentors kind of coaching me through things and I was learning that way. I've always been like an eager learner.
So I was, uh, learning that way. Um, I found a business coach that, was help helping me on a sliding scale and I was learning from him. And then I also discovered Joe Sanex. Practice of the practice program. Mm-hmm. Um, and they have a monthly membership. So I thought like that monthly membership was reasonable and I learned, you know, so much from that.
And then I ended up enrolling in an entrepreneurship program for Latinas. Um mm-hmm. And so for me it was like, all right, like I do need help when it comes to this. And I am, I really love, you know, that there were, that there are actually supports out there for clinicians.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah.
Well, besides, you know, receiving help for yourself, what other mindset shifts did you notice that you were making? I know you came from an entrepreneurial background, so that's a, that's a leg up a little bit. So, but, uh, yeah. So what other, other things did you notice?
Katie Piura: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I think, uh, a big mindset shift is also.
Think this thought that somehow, uh, being a clin that, um, starting up, that having a practice is as a clinician is really at the odds with business. It's like, how do you view the business from a different lens? Mm-hmm. Um, and for me it came a lot from also in grad school, right? Like there was this.
Quote that was often referred to, and you might have heard it before too, is that we're in it for the. We're not in it for the income, we're in it for the outcome. And although I believe that is true and, and starting a practice is should not be money driven, that's not the why for your practice, and I actually don't recommend that because your practice is not gonna be sustainable if that's your why.
Mm-hmm. But there needs to be some mindset shifts when it comes to business and money, right? Mm-hmm. Because if you do start it as a business, you technically, legally have to make a profit, right? Or unless you'll get in trouble with the IR Rs if you don't. Mm-hmm. Um, right. And you deserve to also make a livelihood, so your, the way you run your business.
I'm sorry. The way you run your practice needs to be in alignment with your goals and values, your business goals and als. Mm-hmm. And also, you know, how you wanna serve clients. And so the mindset shift is how you view money, right? Instead of me is instead of being, viewing money as an enemy, look at it as an asset and look at it as a door that's going to open doors.
For you to help clients, right? Because mm-hmm. What you 'cause that's what I found, right? Like being at the odds with business, being at the odds with money as if that somehow was wrong, right? But really, it really is about like, if you're able to like sustain yourself, sustain your practice, you down the line are gonna probably have opportunities to be able to help others.
You could create scholarships. Spots in your practice, you could donate to the causes that you wanna donate to. So I think the mindset shift is how business and money are viewed.
Gordon Brewer: Right. I, I couldn't agree more. And I think that's a hard one for a lot of people. Because like you had mentioned, all of us have kind of hearts of the help helper hearts, and so we, we want to help people.
And you're exactly right. I don't think you should go into this. Without that being at the core of what you want to do as far as helping people, but. As you mentioned, if you're, if a practice is not making a profit, it's not gonna be able to help people anymore. Uh, because you've got to pay yourself.
You've got to make a living unless you've got, tons of money tucked away and just starting a, a nonprofit or something. But even at that even nonprofits have to make a profit. In order to, that's true. Just to stay open. And so that's the, that's the bottom line for any business or any sort of you know, profession.
Katie Piura: No, absolutely. Absolutely.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. And I, the other thing too, uh, that you mentioned, Katie, that I think is important for people to remember is that money is just a vehicle. I mean, it's just some, a tool maybe to help you do the things that you want to do. It's what you know, and fortunately, or unfortunately, that's what keeps everything going for everyone is the, the money that exchanges and, the economics and all that kind of thing.
But, and so just to look at it as a tool, as I think is an important piece rather than an enemy.
Katie Piura: Yeah. Again, it could also help reduce burnout in some way. Mm-hmm. Right? If you set the fees that are, uh, that align with, with, um, maybe the work-life balance you're looking for as well, it could help reduce burnout and help you even, dedicate more time to quality care in that way.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. Well I think too, you know, as you mentioned I think everyone has to check in with their why, you know, what is it that you're wanting to gain by going into private practice? And if, you know, I tell people all the time, if you don't have kind of a entrepreneurial bent or a little bit of, uh, that.
That drive to do kind of the entrepreneurial thing, it's probably better that you continue to work for an agency or work for a group practice somewhere. But it sounds like that's been so much part of your, your background that it was important for you to meet that need.
Katie Piura: Yeah, it was definitely important for me to meet that need.
I. Didn't know, I, I had to do some soul searching because I didn't know. I reached a point where I was like, I had worked in so many different jobs that I reached a point of like, what job do I do next? And I even had a moment where I was just like, do I wanna continue being a clinician? Is this what I wanna con, is this what I wanna continue to do?
Because I was experienced that burnout that I was. Telling you about. Mm-hmm. And so it wasn't through kind of that soul searching and that I realized, you know, that it isn't necessarily the fe the mental health field that I wanna exit from. It's the way I'm doing it. Mm-hmm. Um, and through private practice, I was able to really resonate with, many things, like, you know, speaking to your ideal client, working with the clients that, that you, that align with your strengths and having kind of that freedom to do so. Mm-hmm. As opposed to agencies where you. Take what they give you. And so I was able to like real, I was able to realize that wow, this like really resonates with me and like if I am, if I feel like I'm taking care of myself in the way that I'm working, then I'm showing up better and I'm actually mm-hmm.
Gordon Brewer: Helping.
Katie Piura: Clients, uh, you know, so solve or, or bring or speak to my client pain points in a more authentic way.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Katie Piura: And so, it did for me take, you know, a lot of like soul searching and, and like the entrepreneurship side was there on the side. I was already starting like a makeup business where I was doing.
Providing makeup services. And so I knew, you know, there was, like you said, that entrepreneurship bit. But I had to, I had to shift that mindset of like, wait, can entrepreneurship happen as a clinician? Like, is that, is that even appropriate? And I realized, you know what, like it can, and it can actually make a difference.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. And it's a, it speaks to as well the importance of, uh, creating a niche for yourself that is something you're passionate about and something you enjoy. And like you mentioned as well, it, it really, I think, ultimately makes us much better clinicians when we're working with our ideal client and we're not experiencing the burnout from being.
Working with, uh, people or the types of things that just don't energize us. So yeah, I think it's so, it's so important. Yeah. Yeah.
Katie Piura: So that actually segues Gordon into the mindset shift of into the mindset shift of marketing being a self-centered thing. Mm-hmm. What I'm noticing is that clin, so a lot of time that some clinicians view.
Marketing and putting yourself out there as being salesy, as being as being self-focused. Mm-hmm. Um, but the reality is that marketing speaks to the pain points and. Speaks to what your ideal clients need to hear from you, right? Like right. It isn't just about sales. It's also a way that your ideal client gets a preview of what it is like to work with you.
Mm-hmm. And is able to also see you as a resource, like if your, if you're an educator, so to speak, and you love educating clients on mental health, you could do that through the social media channels. You could do that through the blog, so to speak. Uh, you don't have to do videos if that's not what you enjoy, but you can share snippets of, you know, your resources.
And that's a way where clients get to know that style of you. Actually see you as a resource and can even help clients who may not necessarily be ready for therapy or may not necessarily, uh, have the insurance or the financial capacity to work with you right away. But you are already being a resource.
So you blending your resourceful strengths with marketing isn't, it isn't just. Isn't, you know, necessarily self-centered. It actually ends up helping people as well.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. There's that old, uh, adage that you could build it, but you've got to tell 'em about it for 'em to come. And so, yeah, I always, you know, there's, there are plenty of clients out there for all of us, and I think to add to what you're saying is, is that marketing helps those people.
Find you. And so if they don't know about you, they're not gonna be able to come to you. So marketing is a way for them to be able to find you. And that's that. I think that's a great way to think about it. Yeah.
Katie Piura: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. No. Um, I think, it really is about changing kind of how you view marketing and even getting help with marketing, right?
Mm-hmm. Like, um, and, uh, getting support around that and how to do that if that's not something that is necessarily your strength.
Gordon Brewer: Well, Katie, I know you've put together a, um, a little course or. So tell folks about that.
Katie Piura: Yeah. Thank you Gordon. My course is called The Private Practice Start.
Um, the private Practice start is a five week program that teaches therapists how to launch their practice with. Through business strategies. So you'll hear from me, um, but you'll also hear from experts in business marketing and accounting. Um, and so I started this Gordon as seeing the knowledge gap, uh, that there can be.
I really wanted, for this to be a way for clinicians to learn about how to use their, their, their strengths. How to really reflect on their mission and vision, their why, and also mm-hmm that intersection of the clinical side of things and business. And yeah, so it's a five week program.
It actually. Begins tomorrow, April 11th, but Okay. If, I know it's a little short notice, but if you, you know, it is gonna be recorded and available for access. If you can't, be part of the date. And yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Okay. Okay. And we'll have links in the show notes in the show summary for people to get that easily.
So Katie, I guess we, I've gotta be aware of our time and your time. Um, any parting thoughts that you have for folks?
Katie Piura: If starting a practice has been, has been on your mind. And you didn't get, didn't receive the knowledge on the business side of mm-hmm. Of starting a practice. You shouldn't let that stop you. Mm-hmm. There are resources out there. You being a helper does not mean that you don't deserve help yourself.
There, there are people out there like Gordon, like Joe Sanok even myself, right? Who. Who are there to help you. There are so many resources out there, so you shouldn't let that stop you. And I do have like a special message for Bipoc clinicians as well. As bipoc clinicians, we, we haven't, uh, received a lot of mentorship there.
There aren't really a lot of. Bipoc clinicians doing what we see ourselves doing. Mm-hmm. Um, but that doesn't mean that you can't be successful. You have it in you. Um, and the odds that you have overcome as a bipoc clinician, is a testament of your ability to also be able to achieve the success that you wanna achieve.
And yeah, those are my last
Gordon Brewer: words. Alright. Alright, well that's great. And again, we'll have Katie tell folks your website so they can, uh, maybe if they're listening or driving or whatever, they'll be able to get to it.
Katie Piura: Yes, thank you. Uh, KatiePiura.com And you can also find me on Instagram, @kpiuralcsw
Gordon Brewer: Alright. And again, we'll have links in the show notes and the show summary for all those places. And again, Katie, thanks for being on the show.
Katie Piura: Thank you, Gordon, for having me. It's been great.