The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer:
Well, hello everyone. And welcome again to the practice of therapy podcast. And I'm so excited for you to get to know Veronica Cisneros. Santa's I got to hear Veronica on on the practice of the practice podcast. I believe that's where I heard you first over Veronica. And she was one that I reached out to and said, I've got to have you on the podcast and she's graciously accepted to be here and we're recording it very early in the morning for her. So I'm even more grateful. So welcome Veronica. Yes. Yes. So as I start with most everyone why don't you tell folks a little bit about your therapy journey and that you're, I know you're an MFT as well, and just how you've kind of landed where you've landed.
Veronica Cisneros:
Absolutely. So never imagined in my entire life that the dream of becoming a therapist and owning a private practice would actually happen and nobody's ever taught me how to be an entrepreneur. And so I decided, you know, after going to grad school, I was going to go ahead and learn as much as I could, as much as possible worked for a partial hospitalization program, fell in love with it, fell in love with our patients and ended up, ended up hearing Joe Sanok, which is a mutual friend of ours. And I listened to his podcast. I remember having a conversation with him and him telling me, Veronica, what are you doing? Like you're still at the hospital and you have this successful practice. I remember telling him, well, there's no way possible I can ever just go out on my own. And and even be like successful without the hospital.
Veronica Cisneros:
I get all my clients from the hospital. So I had a lot of that, that self doubt. And then in addition to that, there was just complete fear if I'm being absolutely honest. So it was complete fear because I didn't, I didn't want to fail. And there was this immense fear of failure. And so ended up Hinton. I'm taking that leap going out of my own. And now I have nine employees, which is ridiculous. And so through this journey of having my private practice and then it turning into a group practice, one thing I started to notice in my private practice working with women is that they were all suffering from the same issue. They didn't know who they were outside of all of the roles they play. And they were so defined by being a mom. And although being a mom is absolutely amazing and it's this blessing.
Veronica Cisneros:
We do get lost in it. And if I take it even further, there were a lot of women who also got lost in their careers, where they would leave the house and stay at work for really long hours. And I know a lot of us, a lot of us therapists are guilty of this. We get validation, our clients and the progress that they're making and being a part of their journey that they trust us. We don't necessarily get that validation when we're home and our kids are telling us what do you know mom? You know? And so I've noticed that most women have a hard time figuring out who they are outside of the roles they play. And that ended up being my mission. Although I still have my private practice, I developed empowered and unapologetic as a platform to establish a community of women who were able to go ahead and share some of these issues and say these things out loud and have this platform where they can learn skills, established validation, and really practice mindfulness developing this life that they want to live.
Gordon Brewer:
Right. Right. Yeah. That, I think that is so huge. And, and that I think and I think it's true for a lot of us. We get into kind of this role and we can really kind of fill our plates too full, not trying to be everything to everyone. And I think especially as parents, that's a, it's also, we tend to probably overdue when it comes to our kids sometimes and then would feel guilty for not you know, thinking we're not living up to the Mark, so yeah, absolutely. Right. Right. Yeah. So what sort of, yeah, so what sort of themes do you see with people, the people that you work with and, and yeah, just a little bit about your approach and working with people around these issues.
Veronica Cisneros:
A lot of us lack vulnerability and it's, it's interesting because we're therapists and we encourage vulnerability. However, I see that often, especially with women again, and it's this fear of being exposed. If I'm exposed, what are other women going to think? And if I'm exposed, what would this look like? What would this look like? If somebody really knew my reality, somebody really knew that I wasn't in a happy marriage. Somebody knew that I had trouble connecting. And to be honest, I found myself in that role. A couple months after my daughter was born, my husband and I were one month away from divorce and I, my entire identity. And I didn't, I wasn't even aware of this. My entire identity was focused. And based off of me being a wife and a mother, and that was it. I didn't know anything else. And so I asked women when you take away those roles, who are you? And I will ask your audience the same question, you know? Okay. So I understand your therapist, I understand your mom, but when we take out those roles, who are you, when's the last time you engaged in one of your hobbies or worked out or did something for you? Most of the time I met with, I don't know who I, and I don't know. I don't have any hobbies because I don't even know what I like. I don't my kids, like, I know what my husband likes, but I don't know what I like.
Gordon Brewer:
Right, right. So how did you, how did you discover that? And, and, and it sounds like, yeah as, as I hear it, you're, it's obviously, obviously something you're very passionate about and I can detect that. And so how did you figure that out? What was, what was your, the real you, cause maybe a way of thinking about that?
Veronica Cisneros:
Absolutely. It was thinking about, it was thinking about what are my current frustrations what's currently going on. And you know, one of them was, I want to have this routine and I want to wake up in the morning and I want to work out and I want to meditate and I want to read, and I wanted to do this, this and this. And those are all of the things that I wanted to do. And I thought about, okay, well, what is the life I want to live? Well, I want to be a connected and exceptional mom. I want to be a connected and exceptional wife. Okay. What is standing in my way? What's honestly standing in my way because I can recite as positive affirmation. I can read a book. I can, you know, set my alarm clock. I can do all of those things that most coaches and most people say to do.
Veronica Cisneros:
However, very few people ask what's really standing in your way. And that required me to really, really look at myself and what I was doing, why I was doing it. And what I realized was that I didn't feel like I was deserving. My kid's school, my husband's job, you know, my house, even my house was at a higher ranking than myself. So I couldn't do that until my house was clean. I couldn't do that until everything I needed to do for my husband was done or everything I needed to do for my kids was done. So it really took me just looking at my life and how I wanted to change it. And that thought that repeated over and over that I wasn't worth it. So I started challenging it and I started creating the perfect day, my perfect day, my idea of the perfect day. And by if you have kids, there is no perfect day.
Gordon Brewer:
Right.
Veronica Cisneros:
And I would, I asked myself throughout the day, what does this look like? Okay. So I woke up at nine and I wanted to wake up at six, you know, cause it's the weekend, give yourself grace, you know? Okay. So I want to, you know, do I really want to wash those dishes or do I really want to just jump in the pool? And so I jumped in the poll and each time started giving myself permission to go ahead and do the things I wanted to do. And it left me vulnerable. However, at the same time it empowered me. And it's the name empowered and unapologetic because I, I started live my life unapologetically, if that makes sense.
Gordon Brewer:
Right, right. Yeah. I'm reminded of a, of a metaphor that I use with my clients. And it sounds like you're really living into this and trying to teach others to live into this is, you know, when we back in the days where we could fly, you know, when you get on a plane, the first thing they do before you take off is go through that safety routine. And they talk about the cabin, losing pressure and oxygen mask coming down. And they always tell you to put your own on first, before you try to help anyone else. And I think that's one of the things that happens is we neglect our own self care at the expense, really at the expense of the people we're trying to help, because if we're not, if we're not taking care of ourselves, it really incapacitates us to do those, those things that we really want to do, you know, at the heart of things, you know, you still want to help your kids. You still want to help your husband. All of those, all of those things don't go away. It's not that the desire's not there. It's just that you didn't have the energy for it.
Veronica Cisneros:
Well, yes. And you know my first episode, my first podcast episode was girl, put your bra on for
Gordon Brewer:
Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's the one I heard now that I remember now and it caught my eye. Yeah. I'd love for you to share that story if you could. Yeah,
Veronica Cisneros:
Of course. And so that, that ended up becoming my routine. I would wake up to the checklist, run around like a crazy mad woman yelling at my kids because of course who were late and they're late for school and this is at the time that we were actually going to school. But I found myself just irritated. The moment I woke up and running downstairs to go make breakfast, burning the food, running back upstairs to make sure my kids actually woke up. And then trying to go ahead and get my little monkey. She's nine trying to get her dressed. And it's this ongoing battle of mom that doesn't match. I can't believe you're going to make me go out like this. I'm not into Teddy bears. I'm into unicorns. Now get with the program. And I'm doing all of this, you know, trying to get all my three girls ready while cooking while trying to go ahead and maintain some form of sanity.
Veronica Cisneros:
And my husband meets me downstairs, looking all GQ and with his coffee in hand, mind you not at all, helping me with lunch, not at all, helping with breakfast, even combing somebody's hair. Like none of that happened. And one thing I realized is it's not necessarily out of exhaustion and this is where your, your, your listeners might not like me. It's our own fault. Why didn't I ask for help? And don't get me wrong, ladies, I get it. You know, some of our husbands, maybe not as not be as supportive as we'd like them to be. However, what is the foundation that you set? What is the foundation that you both set? Because you both did this, you know, as, as therapists, we know it's 50, 50 off the bat, right? What boundaries have you set? How have you asserted yourself? Have you asked for help?
Veronica Cisneros:
And I never asked my husband for help. So I would end up getting into that car, screaming and yelling, totally upset at my husband. Resentful, passive aggressive. No, it must be good. It must, it must feel so good to take a shower. And then looking down, realizing that I look like the hired help and my husband looked amazing. So embarrassed to get off out of the car, just go ahead and kiss my daughter, you know, goodbye while she enjoys her day at school. Not only that the guilt and shame I felt for screening and introducing that to the day. And I knew there's something that had to change and I was a part of that change. And so again, a lot of self reflection and I can blame my kids. I can blame my kid's schedule. I can blame my husband. I can do all of those things or I can take action. And that's what I decided to do. I decided to take action. And would you believe it? My husband would comb their hair. My husband would go downstairs and make breakfast and lunch. And we had this routine. All I had to do is ask for help, literally ask for help and don't get me wrong. There were times my husband comes monkeys hair and there was bumps everywhere. And it looked like a mess. I wasn't going to complain about it because it was getting done
Gordon Brewer:
Perfection. Right. Right. I love that. I love that story because I have, as a matter of fact, I'll share with you Veronica, that I've thought about taking that podcast and giving it to a lot of my clients. Cause I hear that, you know, it's not only for us that are therapists that do that, but I think it's just a very human problem and that we don't wait, we don't ask for what we need. And it's like, we, and we just assume that others know what we need. And yeah. And then the other part of it too, is a lot of times we just don't know what we need. So yeah.
Veronica Cisneros:
It's not until we're in those binds feeling completely frustrated that we realize, okay, wait a minute. I can't do this. So.
Gordon Brewer:
Right, right. So yeah. So what what this might be a little bit of a strange question. Maybe not. What are some of the habits you have now that have been really transformative for you? Not only as a, as a mom, but also as a therapist and all of that sort of thing. Yeah.
Veronica Cisneros:
A hundred percent vulnerability. And what I mean by that is I can live unapologetically by being vulnerable. That might mean that I might be subjected to some criticism, which I have, you know, us moms know that if you, if somebody walks into your house with dirty dishes in the sink, you might get that side eye, especially by our mother-in-laws, you know there might be some form of judgements and doing it anyway. The minute you give yourself permission to go ahead and be vulnerable, be your true, authentic self, whatever that is. There's so much, there's so much freedom and peace in it because I'm no longer attempting to go ahead and meet your needs or meet my husband's needs or meet my kids' needs. I am being my true, authentic self, which in turn, provides my family with exactly what they want. Less expectations, ladies, less expectations, because I'm able to accept my family for who they are and who they're not because I've accepted myself for who I am and who I'm not given myself. Great.
Gordon Brewer:
Right. Right. I love that. I love that. Yeah. I think we do. We can set, set the bar really high and do it. The other, other trap that I think a lot of us fall into is just getting into a trap of, of comparing ourselves to others. Oh gosh. Yeah. I've just done the, yeah. Yeah. And I think that, you know, our own way of doing things is, is the way to do it. And it's not, you don't have to do it like somebody else.
Veronica Cisneros:
I have. I'm so glad you said that Gordon, I have learned so much about vulnerability. Here's why for so long, I handled all of the finances, all of the finances. And I gave them to my husband the first couple months, it was a bunch of bills late. We got that pink letter in the mail saying that our electricity was gonna be turned off because he just forgot it wasn't that we didn't have the money. He just forgot to pay it. However, the minute I let it go, my husband was able to make so much more better decisions than I was because I was handling money emotionally, where it was just very much black and white for him. And I learned so much from it. So yeah, it's being able to go out and let go, being able to know that we're not the only ones that can do everything.
Gordon Brewer:
Right. Right. I love that. I love that. So does shift gears a little bit, tell folks a little bit about your, your practice and particularly your podcast and in your coaching.
Veronica Cisneros:
Absolutely. So empowered and unapologetic. We have a free Facebook group. And you can, you can search empowered unapologetic, and I gave you the link. So you can put that in, right?
Gordon Brewer:
Yup, sure. We will. Absolutely.
Veronica Cisneros:
Yeah. So it's a community. For women listen to the podcast, we have challenges and we really just kind of, we really provide this ability to go ahead and say, whatever you need to say, no judgment, no criticism. We're all here to support one another, not take it on. Then I also have a VIP membership and in that VIP membership, there's weekly coaching. And so when weekly coaching, we're setting up goals, we're challenging each other. The group is challenging and engaging and really discussing their wins. And even some of the issues that they just can't seem to go ahead and work through. So this platform provides them with the ability and the tools to go ahead and live unapologetically. The podcast, the podcast is focused on me, putting myself out there and sharing some of my stories that I know are relatable. And I know they're relatable because of the clients they see and the people that I coach and even my friends and family, you know, the minute we start talking, the minute they've listened to my episodes, they're like, Oh my gosh, phonic. Okay. So that totally happened to me yesterday or whatever, but it's really me being me and sharing what the world that listen, I don't have a perfect life by any means. However, I can tell you one thing I'm about to celebrate my 21st anniversary. And one thing I absolutely love about my husband is I love the way he loves me. And I wouldn't be able to experience that if I wasn't living unapologetically
Gordon Brewer:
[Inaudible] yeah, yeah. It's yeah. It's, you're, you're so right. And we, again, as therapist, particularly as marriage and family therapist, we know this is that until a person is able to love themselves it's very difficult to receive love from others. Yeah. And so I think that's kind of where it starts. I mean, we have a relationship, you know, our relationships and our air action patterns are important, but we also have a relationship with ourself. And, and I think that's, that's where we can affect change is by changing ourselves and looking at how we see ourselves and how we, how we interact with our, with ourselves in our internal world. So yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So, well boy, so I know Veronica, I wish we weren't on opposite ends of the country and we could get together for coffee because this is just a lot of fun to, to talk about. But I want to be respectful of your time and tell folks again just how they can get in touch with you if they want to do more.
Veronica Cisneros:
Absolutely. So you can find me@empoweredandunapologetic.com on Instagram empowered and unapologetic.
Gordon Brewer:
Okay. All right. And well, as, as we said earlier, we'll have that in the show notes and the show summary, any parting thoughts before we call it a day?
Veronica Cisneros:
Absolutely. So I know I've been addressing the ladies, I'm going to give it both to the ladies and the fellows. What do I want to, I want to leave with this question and it's a question I ask all of my guests when they're on my podcast, what are you doing right now to live the life you want to live? And I want you to think about that. I want you to answer it and I want you to post it in my free Facebook group because I want to hear from you.
Gordon Brewer:
Yes. Awesome. Yeah, that's great. I love that. I love that. Well, thanks again, Veronica for being here be sure to check, check her out. And her podcast is great. I've listened to some of the episodes, so be sure. And I mean, it's, even though she addresses mainly towards moms and women and that sort of thing, what we, dads can pick up a lot of good stuff there. Yeah. Yeah. So thanks Veronica.
Veronica Cisneros:
Thank you so much for having me Gordon. This was amazing. This was great.