The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer
Okay, if you want to do the little blurb

Speaker 1
Hey there, my name is Sarah, and that is your Veta say hi all the way from San Antonio, Texas. And I cannot wait to spend some time to hang out with you guys to talk a little bit about how to eliminate the competitive mindset. Being in this field is really, really important to make sure that we're all sharing the wealth. I think there's enough room at the table for all of us.

Gordon Brewer
Perfect. Well, hello, everyone, and welcome again to the podcast. And I'm really excited for you to get to know Sarah Rivera. Sara, welcome to the podcast.

Sarah Rivera
Thanks so much. I'm excited to be here. Yes.

Gordon Brewer
And Sara and I got to meet in person, even before we did the podcast. And we were both at the y's practice conference in Savannah just a week or two ago. And I really enjoy getting to know Sarah and you're in for a treat, getting to hear her story and just some of the things she's, she's learning about she is she is a true pro. And so I'm looking forward to hearing from her. So Sarah, as I start with everyone, tell folks a little bit more about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed.

Sarah Rivera
Sure things so yeah, I'm saying hello, all the way from San Antonio, Texas. And I have a small group private practice. They're called La Luz counseling. It was a result of solo turned into group during the pandemic, when all of us thought our businesses would fail. But then it all just kind of increase. And in turn, I think tenfold in a way that none of us could have ever anticipated. So from there, after realizing there's a bit of a need in terms of support that mental health professionals can find from other mental health professionals, I've launched something called the counselors mentor. And it really is exactly what it sounds like. It's just to offer mentorship and guidance for developing mental health professionals during the in between stage when they're not quite sure what to do next.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes. And one of the things I know that Sarah and I talked about was just kind of her evolution of thinking about things differently, particularly going into group practice, and just thinking about, you know, kind of getting away from some of the stigma we create for ourselves by being too competitive. I don't know if that's a good way to put that. But what what do you tell us more about that, Sarah, just kind of what you've learned along the way? Absolutely.

Sarah Rivera
And thanks for bringing that up for them. Because I think that that's an area that a lot of people don't speak about too openly within our field. It's almost a given and other business industries that there's going to be a certain idea or concept behind competitiveness, you often look into business text and guidance, and it says your competitors. And I realized that that was kind of a hard one for me to swallow those as I was looking into the business development portion of being a private practice, owner. And that was one of the hardest things for me as a mental health professional was shifting from a mental health professional, to a business owner. And I felt a little bit of tension and kind of a negative pool. And the more that I looked into it, the more that I realized that this idea behind competition and competitive competitiveness was actually a resort of results rather of the scarcity mindset of there not being enough of somehow giving you this referral as money out of my pocket. It was really disheartening. I'm going to be honest, when I initially started off wanting to learn about business ownership, and thought that the best people to talk to were other fellow mental health business owners, and some of the kind of negative response I received early on. And that was really tough. I'd say especially as it as a young developing entrepreneur is very discouraging. And so that feeling of competition almost made me question if I was in the right, space in place. Right,

Gordon Brewer
right. And yeah, yeah, it's interesting in the time that I've been doing kind of private practice consulting and doing the podcast. I don't know why, but it seems like it's, it's evolved a little bit to where there is this sense of competition that's kind of coming up. I don't I don't know if that's just my perception, but didn't always used to be that way. And I think you're exactly right. I think we can pull ourselves out of that way of thinking, we're gonna get, we're gonna figure out that there's more than enough and getting away from that scarcity mentality, that scarcity mentality. Yeah. Yeah. You

Sarah Rivera
know, one of the really sad things Gordon is is even if you and I live to be 500 years old, I don't think that we would ever catch up to the mental health need that the people of this world have, like, there's always going to be an influx of people who need mental health support, mental health care, mental health, attention. And this, I mean, it's an alarming need that we have, that we need as many of us out there as we possibly can. We need people to be competent, and have competence, and to be efficient at the work that they do, whether that's in private practice, or an agency or nonprofit, like we need as many people who care as humanly possible, because we're never gonna get ahead of this. I hate that. I say that in a sentence. But it's true.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, yeah. It really is. So yeah, so as you have moved into private practice, and maybe, maybe give folks a little bit of the story behind how you decided to go into private practice, and kind of your journey into it, and maybe some of the things you've learned are mistakes you've made, that maybe you've learned from that kind of thing.

Sarah Rivera
Oh, boy, that well, that's gonna take us a few hours. No, it isn't. But I will say that the amount of mistakes that I made early on are just oh my gosh, thankfully that I have a God who really takes care of me, give me lots of second chances. Because those mistakes were, were big from the get go. I mean, little things, two big things. For example, I can remember, starting in solo private practice and thinking well, brand colors, Hmm, let me just go with my favorite color, you know, make it personal to me. So my name was my was the business name was my actual name. And it had my favorite colors. And it just spoke Sarah, until I realized, my maiden name may not always be my name, and I got married, and my maiden name, then change to my married name. So here I was with a business name that was different than my married name, like going forward, and, and then the rebranding that had to occur, it was just one of those silly things that I didn't think future. So that vision is so much more important than what is my favorite thing today. You know, there has to be the intentionality and a purpose for the today, for the tomorrow. Yeah, so choosing intentionally the things today so that it can have that long lasting impact, even when we're gone. And that was a huge kind of gut punch to my system. Because I didn't know what I was doing. Let's be real, I had no idea what it took to be a business owner, I had no idea what standard operating procedures where I didn't have a clue. And so that's what prompted me to take a look in into my community to see what information was there. And that's when I started seeing one of two categories of people, people who had the closest closing my fist now. So that we can kind of see what that exchange of information was like. It was it was very stingy, it was a very minimal, it was very closed. And then the other category of people that I'm so blessed to have encountered with were the ones with the Open hand, where there was a willingness to share, receive and give in it was in those conversations with other professionals, not just mental health professionals, but professionals that I received a lot of support from, in terms of how to think like a, like a business owner, how to think like an entrepreneur, and in essence, how to leave my emotions at the door when I'm just thinking about my business, right? Mental, professional, that's just absurd. That's how we think we think and feeling. So to say, let's pause that when we're talking about the business but start down when you're when you have your mental health hat on. It was it was a shock to my system completely.

Gordon Brewer
Right. Right. And I think, you know, thinking back when I started my practice, I think one of the things that I did, is kind of kind of similar to what you're speaking to is, I thought, I thought about things too small. I mean, didn't really think about growth, and where that was going to take me and all of that sort of thing I can remember starting to get busy as a solo practitioner and my schedule filling up and I didn't think to say okay, what systems do I need in place to make this more automated? And so I was really scrambling and I remember things falling through the cracks and, you know, double booked Getting appointments and all of those kinds of things, which are just an absolute nightmare and just embarrassing and all of that sort of thing. And so, as you're saying, is really having the forethought of thinking, Okay, what's this going to look like 510 years down the road, and being able to create that vision for yourself of what you what you hope it will look like. And, and not just thinking too small.

Sarah Rivera
Absolutely. And I will say, again, it kind of goes against my, my preconceived thoughts of what business was. So for example, I can remember that time as well, when, when the expansion started to occur. And there I was hiring additional mental health clinicians, which meant then that I was overseeing scheduling and intake calls and paperwork and making sure everybody was on boarded. And I was exhausting myself with administrative work, and realizing why am I feeling so overwhelmed and making less money than I've ever made before I arrived going on? Right, it makes sense in my, in my simple mind to say, Well, why would I pay somebody out for something that if they're not bringing in that income? How am I going to pay them out? So hiring an administrative assistant goes against what our logical brain says,

Gordon Brewer
right?

Sarah Rivera
Well, they're not bringing in any money, hypothetically. So let's not hire them, because it's not like we have money to spare. But here's the thing, we can't afford not to have administrative support. Once you've hit a certain stage and level of your practice, the amount of time that is saved, there really is a cost savings as a result, they're saving you time. So how much is your time worth? Let's just say, an hour, two hours, right there, we're talking $300 that they just saved by taking that off of your plate that week, there was a little like, shift of mindset that was fueled to me by that scarcity. Kind of that word that I was using before is what prompts the competitive mindset, mold scarcity. Well, there's other very, very challenging, very derailing behaviors as business owners that are also a result of scarcity mindset, I'm not gonna hire the administrative assistant, because I'm scared, I won't be able to fill in the blank, make ends meet, I won't be able to pay him or her I won't. It's time that I don't have its money I don't have and it's very counterintuitive to a think that the blessings that we can achieve, if we do have some additional guidance and shepherding,

Gordon Brewer
right, right. We i It's that whole idea of really learning how to invest in your practice. in ways other than our time, you know, in those beginning stages, I think it is a good idea to bootstrap to an extent, and also just learn the ins and outs of all the different systems and processes that you need that we need to know. But you do reach that tipping point where if you continue to bootstrap, you, you're not going to get the return of the investment of your time. And so I think, to your point, being able to that whole scarcity mentality of thinking, Oh, if I hire this person to, to do these administrative things, then I can't, it's gonna, the money I paid to them, I'm not gonna, that's it's money lost or something along those lines. But in reality, it's an investment. And the return is usually two, three times three, three fold return, just by doing that one simple thing. And that's, usually when in consulting with people, that's one of the lowest hanging fruits, when people get busy is to hire somebody to do the intakes and the admin at some of the administrative functions of your practice. Yeah,

Sarah Rivera
absolutely. And I think you you used a good term a second ago, which is the bootstrapping, and what the longer that I'm in this profession and more mental health professionals that I meet. It's interesting because we all share some similar character traits, some similar like personality traits, and one of those is there. There's some really great one, like we really love to learn, right? That's something that we find as fun is learning, reading, watching documentaries, listening to podcasts. And it's a funny kind of thing that I'm not the only one who has said if school was free, I'd probably still be going, like just to learn Yeah. Oh, yeah. One. Another one is what you said is we're used to doing it ourselves. We're very, very independent. If we don't know the answer to something we're gonna keep on pursuing doing it. We're used to trying really hard and obtaining results as a result of our effort. And most of us in grad school have probably have a whole bunch of A's in, you know, and we kind of people that are 90

Gordon Brewer
years old. Yeah, exactly.

Sarah Rivera
So be with those. There's a beautiful aspect of that as individuals. But one of the things that I came to find, being a business owner is if I wasn't mindful of that, that was my demise. Mm hmm. Because I was so used to doing it on my own. But what happens when I'm trying to do something that I've never done before? And can't? I can't do it on my own? Right, in an effort to try and learn, I talked to more people. And I mean, it just it was kind of a vortex of my own thoughts of, Am I doing something wrong? Is this meant for me? So I think we have to be very aware of some of our personality traits, and how sometimes those those blessings can be curses if we're not aware of them? Yes. And really how to mitigate that as, as business owners, and also as mental health professionals, right. So that was a huge learning lesson for me. And I'm say learning actively because I'm still learning. Yeah,

Gordon Brewer
yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, you know, Sarah, I know, as we were chatting before we started recording, you know, I think this is a perfect segue. And just thinking about what we talked about earlier about being fed, and about, you know, allowing others to, to help us along the way, and that sort of thing. Definitely,

Sarah Rivera
because of this profession. We're very used to helping others. It's a service industry. So we are in the business of helping him in hearts and souls, as what I always say, we help to pour into them, we help to feed and guide them, and we help to sometimes catch the fall that their hearts go through. And it's a very demanding job, emotionally, and mentally. And it's the type of exhaustion that is not cured by a nap, you know, when you come home, and you tell a family member, I am exhausted, and they say, well, I should go to bed early. And you think, Well, that would be nice, if that helped to ease some of this mental fatigue. But the experience that we have, as mental health professionals is unlike any other industry, we don't deal with products, we don't deal with inventory, we don't deal with sales, you know, feed into the souls of human beings. Very, very, very important, very special human being. And because of that, I believe that we often pour out, we pour out everything we've got, we pour out from our hearts and in how we listen and how we walk alongside those who are hurting. And when we do that, it can be real easy to have a routine where we're used to helping others, right, we're the we're the helper. And that can be a very dangerous walk, if it's not mitigated with being helped, or being spoken into, or being poured into, it kind of goes back to you can't pour from an empty cup. And it's really an interesting experience, when that applies to you professionally. Because we may have all experienced that to a certain extent with a family member or a loved one, like like you have gotten with your wife or, or maybe how a parent would with a young child if you're constantly helping others. And so sometimes that that physical labor of love is more obvious, I think. And but within our profession, it's kind of like, well, that's part of the deal. No, it's not. It's not part of the deal to be emotionally fatigued and exhausted to the point that you're questioning this profession. That's not what we have to get used to. On the contrary, it's important that that we pay attention to those yellow flags before they turn red. Right? And it's during those stages where you ask yourself, what do I need, in order to be able to continue this? This is where I'm supposed to be. But if I don't change something, I'm gonna burn out. So what do I need it? And going back to what we were talking about earlier, Gordon is that conference where I was able to be around, we were able to be around like minded individuals in the mental health field who, who also believe in God, that was huge. To me. Having a faith based community is not something common, or believe it or not, where I'm from and to have that and every single person that I looked through, could relate could understand and could pour into me from a spiritual stance, but also from a professional women's. I mean, that was priceless for me. And it gave me that energy, you know, that extra boost going into the last portion of the year where I'm just so thankful to God for allowing us to experience that.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, yeah. That's that you speak so much truth there, Sarah, and thanks for your vulnerability with that, which is, you know, I think that's, you know, kind of, kind of a theme that you're talking about is, is that we, I think, as professionals, and as people that are supposed to know, using air quotes here, all the, all the stuff about mental health and self care, and all of that sort of thing, we, we pour it out, and we give and we give, but we we think sometimes we fail to take it in, of being able to, you know, that whole, adage, Physician, heal Thyself, you know, kind of, kind of mentality kind of thing. And I think it is, you know, I've learned in my own journey, as you mentioned, my wife has his got some serious health problems, and we've got hospice involved now, and that sort of thing. And I think one of the greatest gifts I've been able to give not only to her, but to myself, is to allow myself just to receive of being able to accept the help that people offer to be able to say, No, I can't, you know, I can't do this, and be able to not see that as a failure, but really see it as a strength. And, you know, for, for those out there listening, you know, I think the other thing, too, that I would be pretty adamant about, even though we are therapists, if you don't have your own therapist, or someone that you can talk to about all the stuff that we carry, because we not only carry our own personal stuff, but as you've already mentioned, Sarah, we get handed a lot of heavy stuff from the people that we work with. And it affects us. I mean, if if it doesn't affect you, you might want to think about being in a different profession. But yeah, yeah, it affects us because we are genuinely caring and that sort of thing. And so I think we need to have ways to process all that stuff, whether it's through supervision, or through our own therapy, that sort of thing.

Sarah Rivera
No, and thank you for sharing that, and recognizing some of that vulnerability that I'm expressing because I find that boldness from you. I've been following you for years, as I'm sure many of your listeners have, and been just so willing to share some of the tough stuff. And I think that allows others like me to be emboldened by that, to find courage in that too. And I think it's important that we're not quick to forget what it was like, in the beginning, what it was like yesterday, what some of those challenges were challenges were today, and will be tomorrow, because there is somebody right behind you. There's somebody right in front of you, that can help you along the way. If we were just simply aware of one another with the same sensitivity in mindfulness that we are of our clients. What might that look like? Oh, yeah, our profession, which has looked to one another, and allow and hold space for some of the, the uncertainty or some of the doubts or, or some of the questions, I think we would all be as, as an industry, I mean, leaps and bounds ahead. And that's one of the reasons why I take time to talk with those grad students who reach out to me and say, I don't know what to do. And I said, Well, I'm not sure either, but let's try and figure it out together. Because I remember what it was like to be there. Yeah. It's been, you know, it's been about a decade and a half, but I remember. Oh, yeah, like, Oh, yeah. Next. And there are people at different stages who remember that. So Wow. Absolutely. And I think that there's a beauty and being able to share in that and say, Well, this is what works for you. Maybe that there's other options for you. But being having that open hand like I was mentioning earlier.

Gordon Brewer
Yes. Yes. I think that is so true. Well, or, Sarah, I'm so grateful for you and the work you're doing and I've got to be respectful of your time. What sort of parting thoughts might you have for people just around these topics or things that we're talking about?

Sarah Rivera
Yeah. I would say that when it comes to our field in our industry, it's really, really hard. And I have a sneaking suspicion that all of the listeners today probably fall into the mental health field just some capacity or another. And if you're out there listening and you're feeling down or retired or overwhelmed, just know that that's not your cue to quit. That's not a sign from the earth, that you're in the wrong place. No, you're exactly where you need to be. God says you got here as you. And there are people like us, like me and Gordon, who are willing to help as best we can. So don't feel like you have to walk this one alone. This is not an alone thing. But they just know that you can find the support and encouragement if you're willing to seek it. Willing to ask for it, but the hardest part is accepted. Right?

Gordon Brewer
Right. Yeah. It's absolutely. Well, Sarah, again, you speak truth. And I very much appreciate your gentle spirit and just all that you're doing. tell folks how they can get in touch with you and how they can make contact if they'd like to reach out to you and some of the things that you're doing.

Sarah Rivera
Yeah, so I would say that the best way to get a hold of me is from the counselors mentor website. that's all one word, the counselors mentor.com. And if you find something in there that you think is helpful if you have a question that is unanswered from the website, I can't sell a write different blogs, to answer some of the tough questions that mental health professionals in the in between have. So take a look at that section. And that would be the best way to know what it is that I'm up to. Also, you can follow me on LinkedIn. I always put tons of cool stuff there. Sarah Rivera, LPC, man, so I hope to see you there. Awesome.

Gordon Brewer
Awesome. I will have links here in the show notes of the show summary so people can access that easily. So Sarah, I hope to have you back again on the podcast. And again, it was so good to be with you and Savannah and just getting to know you better. And thanks for all you do.

Sarah Rivera
A pleasure and honors all nine Mr Broun.