The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer: Well, hello everyone and welcome again to the podcast, and I'm really pleased and happy to have Wendy Pitts Reeves on the show today with me.
And Wendy is no stranger to podcasting, and I'm gonna let her tell you a little bit more about her podcast, but I was on episode one 60 of her podcast. So Wendy, as I start with everyone, tell folks a little more about. About yourself and how you've landed where you've landed.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: Thank you, Gordon. What a treat it is to be here with you.
I really like us meeting like this frequently. This is a good idea.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, yeah,
Wendy Pitts Reeves: yeah. So thank you. I am, yes. I'm a licensed clinical social worker and I've been in private practice for, I don't know, a hundred years or so, it seems like at this point. And I have a podcast called Ideal Practice, which you were kind enough to join me for a few, a few weeks ago.
I've been running that podcast now for three and a half years or so with weekly episodes. Just like you trying to do my best to encourage and inspire folks out there who are either starting a private practice or have been in it for a while and have either kinda lost a little bit of the, the excitement or like they're doing fine, but they know they could do better.
I wanna do whatever I can to kind of help them raise the bar a little bit and have more fun with what they're doing. Right. Yeah. Right.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. And I know one of the things that you and I have in common, we're both in Tennessee. Yep. And not too far from each other, but go Balls. Go balls. Yeah.
They're, as we're recording this play, play Kentucky tomorrow. So I'm gonna having some friends over for that. So I digress. But Wendy, I know one of the things that you and I both are, are. Are passionate about, and that is just helping people get started in private practice. And really, as I like to say about myself, I don't, I've learned a lot of stuff the hard way and I don't like other people to do the same.
Mm-hmm. But you've developed this seven, the seven pillars and. And just really kind of the basics, most essential things about starting a practice that you wish everybody knew. Yeah. And all the stuff that you help 'em with. So let's jump into that and just go for it.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: Okay. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. I, so I've been coaching, I, I ran, I started, grew and ran a group practice in.
Maryville, Tennessee, which we pronounce Maryville Uhhuh just outside of Knoxville, near the Smokies. And ran that practice for 25 or so years. And unofficially I had been coaching all along, teaching people how to get their practice started when they joined my group and when I began coaching officially.
And I was thinking like, what? Is it exactly that has made this work? 'cause we, our practice was the go-to practice in our town for all of that period of time. And what I eventually kind of settled on was that there's no one thing that's gonna make your practice work. You really need this to manage several bits of it.
Well, and what it all kind of settles into for me, when I really, really thought about what had brought my success and those of so many people I've worked with, is that there are seven key areas that I feel like. You need to nail not all at once and over and over in different ways through the course of your practice, but you're gonna be bumping into these one way or another.
And so I thought what I would do today is just give you an an introduction to that concept,
Gordon Brewer: right? So
Wendy Pitts Reeves: does that sound good? Yeah,
Gordon Brewer: sounds good. Sounds good. Okay.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: Yeah. Okay. So those seven pillars, I'll say them first and then I'm gonna tell you essentially what each of them means because it's not always as obvious as you think they are.
Number one is purpose. Number two are the people. Number three is the product that you serve. Number four, process number five, payment. That's a fun one. Number six, promotion. And number seven, perspective. And let me tell you what I mean by each one of those. And, and Gordon, I'm gonna, you just interrupt me if you want to ask a question or Sure.
Or share some thoughts about one of these. So I start with purpose for a reason. This is a, because when you tap into your why, why you started a business at all, that's gonna help pull you through the tough times, which you are gonna have. And, and when this is nailed down and you are super crystal clear about what your purpose is, you will be able to say that you know what you, why you do what you do, and you have a potent.
Powerful vision for the business that you are building. Mm-hmm. When you don't have that, you can be a little, you'll find yourself a little detached or confused or sort of scrambled sort of all over the place as opposed to feeling energized and excited. And I don't just mean about the people you're serving, I also mean about why do you wanna be a business owner at all?
Because that's important. This is not for the faint of heart. Mm-hmm. That's the first one. We start with our why number two people, and that is I want you to serve the people that you love, okay? Period, to serve the ones you love. When you've got this nailed down, you will know you ideal client in and out.
You will know them better than they know themselves. You'll know what drives them. You'll know what worries them, and you will know how to. Serve them. And this is important because often we know what our clients know need more than they do. But how to tra how to sort of cross that gap from what they think they need to what we know they need.
That takes skill. Right? Right. And, and when you are working with your client that you absolutely, like you, you wake up in the morning and you look at your calendar for the day and you're like, oh, yay, I get to see them today. That's the best feeling in the world where, and, and when you've got this figured out, you are going to go from.
You'll move away from being sort of anxious, like, oh no, can I work with this person? Do I know what I'm doing here? To, excited about the person in the waiting room that you're going out to say hi to.
Gordon Brewer: Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love this. Absolutely. Yeah.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: The third pillar that we, we no one talks about, which I'm, I'm using the word product.
Now in our word, in our world, we tend to think our product is us, right? The service that we provide. But essentially what I want you to do is I want you to do you and, and that means think of creative ways that you can serve your people at deeper, richer, wider levels. And there's so many ways to do this when you've got this figured out.
Or you are, you are sort of tweaking it over time. You will have an irresistible offer. An irresistible offer that that provides your clients with the resources they need to get the results they most want. Yes. Through a service that. It just works. It just works. Yes. Right. Yeah. It's
Gordon Brewer: really, really about communicating the, the transformation that people can go through.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: Yes. And, and there's lots of ways to deliver that other than sitting in a room for an hour a week and talking. Right. Yeah. Right. Sure. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: And you, you're, you're, you've got all kinds of examples of that I know. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Oh, sure. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So
Wendy Pitts Reeves: the fourth pillar, and we can go back through any of these, but is I, I use the word process and that is basically your systems.
How do you run what you run? How do you do what you do? I have a I'm always saying there's a system for that. I sort of think that way. I have a very strong one wing on the Enneagram. When you run a business, guys like you will find yourself sort of creating things over and over and over, and in the beginning you sort of scramble to figure out how to do what you're doing, but as your practice matures.
What I wanna see over time is I want you to develop habits, systems, and boundaries that make life easier for your team if you have a team for yourself as a business owner and for your clients. And when you do that and you get, and as that. As that improves and matures over time, you will find that your practice is more profitable.
'cause you're not wasting as much time and energy and resources reinventing the wheel. And it's more enjoyable. Right. You won't be exhausted all the time. You'll be more organized. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That's a, that's an important piece I think for like you said in the very beginning to really be clear on, okay, what's.
What's the client's journey through your practice? Yes. And also, yes, you know, what's you're, how you're collecting the money, which I know you're gonna get to that, but yeah, just all of those things. You,
Wendy Pitts Reeves: the, the, the, your client's journey is so important that that is a great way to sort of organize your systems.
Like how do you, how do they find out about you in the beginning, once they reach out for an inquiry, how do you process that? Mm-hmm. Once you get 'em in the door, how do you onboard them as a client? This, during the work itself, how do you stay in touch with them? How do you maintain it? And when it comes time to wrap up, how do you do that?
And if you do this over and over and over with hundreds of clients. Thousands over the years. Mm-hmm. The more systematic you can make that, the easier everything is for everybody. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I, I tend to harp on that a little.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, sure. Sure. I do. I do too. Yeah. So
Wendy Pitts Reeves: the is there any, do you wanna, is there anything you wanna say about the, any of the rest of those before I go on?
No, let's once keep going.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, just keep going. Okay, good.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: I don't wanna go too fast. The fifth pillar. And I, and y'all, I know I have arranged all of these in this order on purpose. 'cause I kind of think you need to get one of these fixed before you do the next and one of these before. Mm-hmm. Like they, they build on each other.
Gordon Brewer: Right? Right.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: So the fifth, which is a lot of it is, is where we tend to start. But I really think you need to get the other stuff figured out first. But that is payment. Or profit, if you like that word. Right, right. And essentially like you have to do well to do any good at all. Mm-hmm. So when your payment systems, and I mean all the things around that, your policies, your pricing, all of that, when that is tight and effective, you will have a healthy pricing structure and a payment system that accurately reflects this is important, the value.
Of what you do, the results that you deliver, it's easy for your clients to manage and it, it will bring you the desired salary. You do have a salary you want, right? Right. You do have a salary. Yes. Yes. Uhhuh. So when you do this well, like the money will be there and it comes in a way that works for your clients as well as you like.
There's no angst about it. We're all on board. We're all in agreement. The energy works because it is, comes from a place of integrity and alignment. Mm-hmm. And it builds on the other things I've already said. Your purpose, who you serve. Right. How you do it. Yeah. Right.
Gordon Brewer: And we could, and, and I know we talked about this before we started recording, but yeah, we could go down a whole rabbit, rabbit trail about money, mindset and some of.
Some of the things that I know therapists in particular struggle with, but that's for another time. So yeah, it is. I really could
Wendy Pitts Reeves: talk about that all day. I harp on that a lot on ideal practice. And I do have a little offer for your, your listeners today, Gordon, that might can help them with that if they're interested.
Okay. Okay. Because you're right, the mindset is everything. Mm-hmm. And when I have taught about this in my own masterminds and courses, I like, I'll teach people the strategies behind it. But it's funny that in the end isn't really what matters. It is the mindset and the way you think about all of this that is more important than anything, so, right.
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: The sixth pillar of these seven is promotion. Mm-hmm. Because your people need you, and if they don't know you exist and they don't know how to find you, they're not gonna be able to get the help that they need. So you have to find a way to get yourself out there when you do this well. You will have a clear and compelling brand message, which I know is not something we talk about all the time.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: You will have identified specific marketing strategies that work for you. Not 15 of them, one or two that really kind of work with who you are. Mm-hmm. They will be online. And in real life. Okay. And they will be strategies that work with your particular strengths. And you are doing them. You are like implementing them.
You're not sitting behind your desk waiting for the phone to ring or for someone to knock on your door, right? Right. So promotion, like it or not, and if you don't learn how to find your way into this and get comfortable with this, the people you can really help are never gonna find you. And that's.
That's sad for everybody, so. Right,
Gordon Brewer: right. It's you know, I'm, I'm always reminded of the movie Field of Dreams Build it and they will come, but you have to build it and then tell them about it. Then they will come
Wendy Pitts Reeves: and you know this,
Gordon Brewer: yeah,
Wendy Pitts Reeves: there's a thousand, there's a thousand therapists in Knoxville.
Right? Like, how do you and someone's looking for you, how do they know? You sound just like everybody else. How do I know who to call? Right. So it really is important, and
Gordon Brewer: I I will say for folks that may, might not be familiar with this, really one of my go-to strategies around all of this are are a framework, really is the StoryBrand framework by Donald Miller.
Yeah. And you can look it up. And it's the StoryBrand. He's got a book, StoryBrand, marketing and yeah, it's a, it's a good way to think about it and I think it's yeah, I think for us that don't like the hard sell kind of stuff Yes. Of really thinking about his framework really helps with that.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: And he's another Tennessee guy. I think he lives in Nashville now. Yes. He lives in Nashville. Yes. He's, everybody's moving to Nashville. Yeah. That's such a great point, Gordon. I actually had someone on my show recently that the whole, our whole conversation was about how to use story and we actually did not reference him, but you're right, that is a really good resource.
Right. And even your personal story done well and done appropriately can really help connect with your ideal clients. Right,
Gordon Brewer: right. Yeah. So
Wendy Pitts Reeves: that's huge. And important. And then the last pillar, the last pillar that it wraps, all of it's the cherry on top is your perspective. And by that I mean your mindset, because you can do all the right strategies and all the right tactics in the world, but if your mindset is wonky, you will self-sabotage every time.
Every time. Mm-hmm. So when you are owning this and you are stepping into this fully with your own power, you will have this healthy. Abundance mindset, a success oriented perspective. Mm-hmm. And you will, you will move through your business being at, cause I used to have a coach who talked about being at, cause that means that you are claiming the, that your power to be the creator of your own life and your business.
Which means if it's going great, it's because you're doing something great. And if it's not going great, it's because you've got an opportunity to fix something. Right. But you are at cause. Yeah. Matt, that's all of it comes down to that. Sure. There you go.
Gordon Brewer: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Those are, those are great. I really love the way that you've kind of put that into almost like steps, but really just kind of a good framework to think about the different elements of running a private practice.
Yep. You know, one thing I would say, Wendy, and I'm sure you address this under kind of the, the money pillar, whatever payment pillar. Yeah. But, in a, in addition to pay paying yourself, is creating a safety net for yourself in terms of Yes, in terms of having money and reserve for those times when, you know, your client load might go down or things might happen.
You know I was talking with someone earlier today for those of us that are in the, have insurance based practices and mm-hmm. That's a whole, that's a whole other decision people need to make is whether they want to accept insurance or not. Yep. There's no right answer to that and it depends on a lot of different things, but back when the, the change healthcare thing happened with, with, with the clearing houses, those of us that are insurance based really took a big hit and really struggled during those periods. And the way my practice made it through was, was the fact that I had had money in reserve. You were really good at that. Yeah. And so I think that's that's something to just have in mind and really.
Think also just, you know, all of these things don't have to be done all at once. Absolutely. And so just thinking about doing it in small bites and just Yeah. One builds on the other. And as you grow, things are gonna, things are gonna change and you're gonna, you. You know, the processes will change and all of those things.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: Abso when we learn as we go, right. And we mostly learn when things go wrong, we figure stuff out. Right? Right. You and I both have been at this for a while, and when you came on my program and you were telling your backstory, like I was really impressed with the way you did that. In terms of putting, setting money aside to have that safety net, you better than I'm used to hearing.
Actually, I wish I had known that
Gordon Brewer: right when I
Wendy Pitts Reeves: started my practice. My, what I, what I see as a coach all the time is people will tell me, oh, I've got great pricing and I'm fine with money, I'm good with it. And then when I start really digging in, like, so really, so tell me like how many clients do you have at what rate and how many what?
And even if you've got an insurance based practice, whatever.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: And what I find is that their pricing is all over the map. And that the, the energy that they approach it is so uncomfortable.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm. So
Wendy Pitts Reeves: I, to me, money is a therapeutic issue every bit as much as anything else we talk about in, in the therapy world.
Right. Right. And because we, like, we are either underpricing
Gordon Brewer: mm-hmm.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: And feeling guilty, or we're fine, our pricing is good, but we, we are apologetic when we talk about it. Like, oh, I'm, I'm so sorry, but you know. My rates are this, you know?
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Which
Wendy Pitts Reeves: is completely undermining and undervaluing the importance of the work that that client is doing.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: Or we avoid the hard conversations. Mm-hmm. Like they owe you and they haven't paid, which is making my discomfort. Their discomfort. 'cause I guarantee you they're thinking about it.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Right.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: So learning how to bring that into the room. Just like you do anything else in that relationship, I feel like that's one of the, the hardest things for people to learn and one of the most important.
Gordon Brewer: Right, right. And, and the truth is, is that people, the majority of our clients want to pay us. They, they, yes. They. And, and kind of to your point, Wendy, I think it's important to recognize your value. Yes. And the fact that you're offering something that in, in many cases is unique but also. People are struggling and they're willing to, willing to pay for that to get the help that they need.
And it's a, and it's an expectation. I don't go to my doctor without. Expecting to pay them in some form or fashion, either by insurance or what, whatever. And, and also pay them on the front end. They, they wanna know where their money's coming from before even walk in the office. So, I mean, it's just, it's so people are used to that and I don't think we need to put a lot of judgment on that.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: Absolutely not. I actually think it's something to celebrate. Mm-hmm. Because when a client chooses to come to you and to invest in themselves and their, the results of their work with you, they're not only saying they trust you or they're willing to put their trust in you, but they're also honoring themselves.
Mm-hmm. And the need that they have, they don't always see it that way. I look at like, yay for you. Look at what you're doing for yourself. That's fantastic.
Gordon Brewer: Right?
Wendy Pitts Reeves: So let's, let's just claim that and not shrink from it. 'cause I, it really is, it's kind of amazing. Yeah. And worth celebrating. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: So I, we've kind of, we've kind of talked around this a little bit, but which pillar do you think most people.
Struggle with, would you say it's the money? Yeah, it's
Wendy Pitts Reeves: very much so. Because I see people who are great at coming up with ideas about how to serve their clients and they, I mean, all of it is, I, I've seen people get fuzzy about all of it. Like in terms of process, that's like boundaries around your time, how you manage phone calls, how you manage the administrative side of your business.
I've, I've coached people who were seeing clients at eight o'clock in the morning and nine o'clock at night and on Sunday afternoons and. Like all over the place. I've seen, I've worked with people who had, were charging one client $50, somebody else 85, somebody else 150, somebody else 200. It's crazy and scattered.
So that's sort of a systemic issue, but it always comes back to our belief system about ourselves and the value of the work we do. And just trusting, like if I don't believe in myself, if I don't think I'm worth paying this, then why should you?
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: So I just like, there's so many ways we trip ourselves up around this.
Right. So many ways.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I think about a lot of it too is we're, we're afraid people won't like us if we ask for money. Yeah,
Wendy Pitts Reeves: it's, it undervalues the work. And when and when, and I, you know, I don't care if you have an insurance-based practice or self-pay or a blend. Like to me, the whole point of an ideal practice is that you are doing, your practice is, it's ideal for you, whatever that looks like.
Right. But even if you've got insurance. So I don't do that. I have a self-pay practice now, but I ran a full crazy, over the top insurance based practice for 20 plus years. Mm-hmm. And I was terrible at it. Because, because there were so many games to play around the insurance. But even if you're gonna do that, do it well.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: Collect your copays upfront, stay on top of it. Or hire somebody like Jeremy that you and I both know, right? Like, find somebody to do the work for you and, and make. Even if you delegate that word to somebody, it's still your duty as the owner of this company. Mm-hmm. You are the CEO of your own show.
You have to know what your numbers are, and you have to know what your clients owe you. I, I had a, I had a a therapist colleague of mine once that was working. Her practice was brand new and she was trying to learn all this stuff and figuring it out, and she told me once, I don't really wanna know what people owe me because I'm afraid I will resent them and it will impact my work with them.
Gordon Brewer: Mm. So
Wendy Pitts Reeves: she was kind of doing the whole, I don't see it, I don't know. This, I don't hear
Gordon Brewer: Right now, she's
Wendy Pitts Reeves: gotten better. She, she didn't do that anymore, but for those first couple of years, and I'm like, do you not think they're thinking about it?
Gordon Brewer: Right? They
Wendy Pitts Reeves: are. Mm-hmm. So treat them with respect and say, let's talk about, let's talk about money.
Let's have that conversation. And
Gordon Brewer: I, and I think too with if you, when you move into group practices, having conversations with your clinicians about that issue as well, because a lot of that, you know, depending on how you've got your, your processes set up. I know in my practice, a lot of times our intake coordinator, coordinator is not there in the building.
And she uses, usually collects, you know, when people come in. But if they're not there, then the, then the therapist needs to collect. And so coaching them through that process about how to do it in a way that yes. That they're comfortable with. And yes, you know, I tell, I, I tell people all the time that you know, when you're asking for money, a simple way to do this is just simply say to the client.
Your bill is this amount. How would you like to take care of this? How would you like to take care of this? And, and then just be quiet. And don't say anything else. And, and they will usually offer something and then you can kind of work your way through that at that point. Yes.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: Yes. That's great. Gordon, I, I also have suggested that to people like mm-hmm.
That, just that question, how would you like to take care of your copay today?
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: How would you like to take care of your payment today? Because there's an assumed. Answer in there that you are gonna take care of it.
Gordon Brewer: Right. Right, exactly. There's an assumed. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And
Wendy Pitts Reeves: do it at the beginning of the session, not at the end.
Because by the end you're into the, all the emotional stuff and it's, you've, you've already got other things to deal with at that point. Yeah. So get it out. And I used to say, let's get the red tape outta the way first. How would you like to pay today? Mm-hmm. I would do that as soon as they walked in and sat down.
Yeah. You also brought, you said. So sometimes your intake coordinator collects payment, but sometimes your clinicians do. Do you find that that's hard for them to actually handle money, whether it's digital or whether it's somebody handing them a check? Do they struggle with that at all?
Gordon Brewer: Well, it's it, what one, again, one of the things too, you're going back to the systems and processes that you have in place.
Yeah. Is the majority of our clients, we have a credit card on file. So I mean, that, that makes it easy for the clinician and all they, you know, all you have to say is I'll add your copay to the card you have on file.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: Yep, yep, yep. And somewhere along the way that card won't work anymore. Yeah. Or something goes wrong and you have to have,
Gordon Brewer: you have to have that conversation as well.
Right. But yeah. But it's, I'll tell you a funny,
Wendy Pitts Reeves: lemme tell you a funny story about this. The reason I asked that question is because when I started my practice back in the day, I, I had come from a residential treatment center where I was the director of family therapy and somebody else dealt with that business stuff.
And I didn't care about any of that. I just wanted to help those kids. Right?
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: So I took that attitude with me into private practice and it was just me in the beginning. And when people would say to me like, how do I pay you? Today they would ask me, how do I pay you? And I'd be like, you know, just drop it in that box at the end of the hall.
Like I had a little wooden box nailed to the wall with a slit in the top. And I would say, on your way out, just drop what you, and they was, well, what do I owe you? I don't, you know, I don't really know. I haven't got that figured out yet. Just whatever you think is best. I literally did not want to touch a, a check or cash.
Mm-hmm. And you know what I did at the end of the day, I ran into that box and opened the lid to see how much money I had there. Right. Terrible, terrible way to start a business. Yeah, right. I mean, that was a very long time ago. I'm not that person today, but it, it, it hurts my heart and also cracks me up to think about that, which is why I'm so tuned into this with people today.
'cause it Sure. There's lots of ways we could do that same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Oh, wow. Yeah. Well, Wendy, I, I guess we need to be respectful of each other's time, and I know we could spend all day talking about all these things, and I'm really grateful to you for the work that you're doing. So tell folks how they can get in touch with you.
And you said you had a, a freebie for people that if they're interested in it.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: If it's okay, I actually it's not a freebie. It's actually a little, a little paid course, but it's Oh, okay. But it's little good. So sort of modeling what I teach here. Yes, yes. So, because, because mindset is such a big deal.
I actually have a little, it's a sweet little mindset course. It's called Mind Over Money. Mm-hmm. And it is. What it is is every day you get a little bit of inspiration, a little lesson in your inbox takes five minutes to either read it or I've got it on the audio if you wanna hear it. It's great to do while you're walking the dog in the morning.
Mm-hmm. Five minutes worth of just a shift in perspective about how to think about abundance. Mm-hmm.
Gordon Brewer: And.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: It's a little, it's like a daily drop of that. Okay. Normally it's $97, but for your listeners in particular, if they go to that, when they, when they register and use the promo code, Gordon,
Gordon Brewer: okay? They will
Wendy Pitts Reeves: get $50 off of that.
So it's just 47,
Gordon Brewer: okay? The way
Wendy Pitts Reeves: you get that is go to my website, wendy pitts reeves.com/. Mind 'cause it's mind over money.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm. Or
Wendy Pitts Reeves: slash mind and use the promo code Gordon to get it basically half price. Awesome. Four, seven bucks.
Gordon Brewer: Awesome. And,
Wendy Pitts Reeves: and people like it. I have people tell me they hate it when it ends because it becomes kind of like a daily meditation almost, in a way.
Gordon Brewer: Right, right. Yeah, that sounds great. And we'll have links in the show notes and the show summary for people to access it. Thank you. Thank you for that. So yeah, so check it out folks and Wendy, I'm sure we will be having more conversations in the future and sharing with all the listeners.
Wendy Pitts Reeves: Absolutely.
Thank you, Gordon. I appreciate it so much. Thank you.