The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer: Well, hello everyone and welcome again to the podcast and I'm really excited for you all to get to know today, Dr. Jason Branch, and you're in for a treat and just a tiny bit I've learned about him so far.
But Jason, tell folks a little more about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed.
Dr. Jason Branch: Thank you for the introduction. Thank you for the opportunity. Hello. To the listeners to the viewers, to the audience. I'm excited. You know, on a scale of one to 10, I'm, I'm on 12. Okay. I just need y'all to know who y'all, that's, that's good.
That's good. That's good. So who am I and how did I get, how did I get here? So, I'm a licensed professional counselor. I'm a counselor educator. I'm a podcast. I'm a father, I'm a husband. I'm just out here living my best life, figuring it out as I go, because I recognize that's what we're all doing, figuring it out as we go.
So as a business owner, entrepreneur, I'm learning. I'm constantly learning. As a professor, as a clinician, as a supervisor, as a father, as a husband, all of these areas, all these hats I'm wearing, I'm learning. Constantly and consistently. So I have over 20 years in the profession. I have 13 years in teaching.
I have 15 years in private practice, and I have 40 plus years of life. So I've seen a lot. I've done a lot, and if I haven't experienced it, I know somebody who has. So just this insight about us, about people, about experiences and exposure, that's kind of given me a lens that I share from. And I love analogies, so I, I use a lot of analogies in the things that I talk about.
And today I want to talk about. Entrepreneurship from a perspective of the three parallels and those three parallels is who we were, who we are, who we're becoming. Mm-hmm. And I look at that in all aspects of life. Right,
Gordon Brewer: right. Yeah. And I, and, and just looking over your, your materials, I think you've like you said, we all have life experiences.
I certainly have had mine. And I think it shapes who we are. And I think, you know one thing in particular, I know we chatted just briefly about at the beginning before we started recording, is just how it's so easy to get. Caught up in imposter syndrome and I, and, and true confession. I keep doing it still, even though I've been, I've been in, you know, been in the business and been in the, this, this arena for quite a while.
But yeah. So what have you learned about that,
Dr. Jason Branch: Jason? Oh, man. Ooh, we, I hope we got enough time. I hope we got enough time. We did, we did. So what I've learned about it, so for those who who aren't aware, imposter syndrome can be defined as this belief that I don't belong. I'm not enough. I'm gonna get found out I'm not supposed to be here.
It was happenstance, you know, it was luck. It was all these beliefs that we have about ourselves that. Diminish where we currently are. Mm-hmm. And to me, what I discovered is imposter syndrome is a real thing and it's in our mind, it's in our head. So Gordon, even for you knowing, you know, different ways of being in imposter syndrome, it comes up at different times.
And to me, usually it comes up in the times when I'm most uncomfortable. Mm-hmm. That's when it pops up. Mm-hmm. If I'm in a room with people who I feel as though may have more. Insight, expertise you name it, you know, I, I may feel intimidated environments that I am and where it's something new, different, uncomfortable that I don't know how to do.
I go right into that space into that place of imposter syndrome. And to me, the best way I can describe that is anytime we do something different, new or uncomfortable, it requires vulnerability. 'cause that's what's gonna happen. Imposter syndrome mm-hmm. Is vulnerability. But it's, it is, it is vulnerability that I'm not accepting.
So in order to overcome imposter syndrome, I have to accept it. Meaning what am I supposed to learn at this time? Mm-hmm. Because I'm not imposter, I just don't know certain things yet. So I'm not gonna diminish me for not knowing something. And the best way I can describe us when we get into imposter syndrome is we are like salamanders.
So for the listeners, it's like a salamander, how, how you go from imposter syndrome to salamander. I'm glad you asked. So for me a salamander is someone who's soft, squishy, vulnerable. Everything sticks. They're penetrable. You know, they take, they work home, they go to work extra early, they stay extra late.
They can't say no. They have a hard time saying no. Mm-hmm. They're horrible with self-care. Mm-hmm. They love wearing the cape. You know, I wanna save everybody named mama, even though you can't. You believe you can. So this is what a salamander looks like. It's vulnerability at its fine like a turtle that's leaving his shell.
We out here naked and afraid, and I ain't talking about the TV show. That's vulnerability at its finest. However, it's okay when I choose, when I'm a student, but it's not okay when I'm a professional, which means we can wear any hat that we choose. So even as a professional, mm-hmm. Even as an entrepreneur or business owner, I'm still learning, which means I'm still a student.
So how am I an imposter? And one way that I want to challenge the listeners on overcoming imposter syndrome is to stick to the facts. How am I imposter if I'm here? How am I imposter if I'm in the room? How am I imer if I'm in the room with these other people that I'm intimidated by? Right. They're probably intimidated.
Intimidated by me. I'm sure. 'cause I'm a gator. It's a difference. It's a difference. Yeah. So to break down this analogy with the salamander, there are five four Ps of salamander life. I keep it brief with two Uhhuh. The biggest P of being a salamander is perfectionism. It's the biggest P because all of us, as human beings, we strive for perfection.
It makes no sense, but makes all the sense in the world. Right? Right. So this idea of I have to do it right, I have to do it right the first time, although I've never done it, that's perfectionism at its finest. The second P is. Patience, meaning I have none. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I have none. I don't got time to learn.
I need to know this now. Why have, why don't I have it yet? Why isn't this happen or that happen? Or when is this gonna happen? Or This is never going to happen. That's a salamander all day just squishy. Just out here. Like a marshmallow. Right. Okay. Right. I need us to armor up and how you armor up to get over imposter syndrome.
To work through it, to work through perfectionism, to work through. Your lack of patience is to become a gator. Now a gator is very different. As you know. A gator has scales. Those scales are healthy. Boundaries and protection. The scales come from who we are from birth to where we are right now, meaning our lived experiences.
All the things that we went through good, bad, ugly, everything else in between provides scales of protection for us as a gator. Right now, this gator is covered. It's protected with armor. However, there is a soft white underbelly. That's that vulnerability. However, you only have access to that when I allow you to have access.
Come on healthy boundaries, and one way to get to the heart of a gator and get to that vulnerability is to get 'em on their back. Ooh, that's for somebody. That's for somebody. Somebody, right? And if you want anything from anybody, get a Monet back,
Gordon Brewer: right?
Dr. Jason Branch: Yeah. Let's go, Gordon. Let's go.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Dr. Jason Branch: yeah.
Gordon Brewer: I love that analogy.
I love that metaphor. Yeah.
Dr. Jason Branch: Yeah. So now let's go further. Let's go further. I got to, man, you brought me here. I can't help. I told y'all from the beginning who y'all got. So with the Gator, I'm gonna get three. Three Cs of Gator life. So we got two Ps, OFS life, we got three Cs of Gator life. If you want to overcome imposter syndrome, you want to really dive into, you become a gator and what's a gator?
Someone who's consistent, they just keep showing up and they keep showing up doing the best they can with what they have. That's it. 'cause that's human, that's all of us. Exactly. I come from a humanistic perspective, so that's what I always go back to. Because with humanism, it's also vulnerability. That's a superpower that we have, that we hide.
Mm-hmm. Ooh, I just wanna talk about it. But that's the first C consistency. The second C is curiosity. I'm curious. I wanna know more. I wanna learn more. I don't know everything. There's so much, I don't know. Teach me, show me. However, when we move up, when it comes to education or credentials, certification, or even finances, we believe we're not supposed to learn anymore.
We don't say it, but that's what our actions say. Mm-hmm. So up for many of us, I'm not seeking CES unless I'm up for renewal. So I'm not looking for education or training unless it's connected to something that's a salamander, a gator. Mm-hmm. I'm constantly willing and open to learn, and I'm learning by being curious.
The third sea that I love about a gator that salamanders do not do at all is celebrate. It was the last time you celebrated. More than likely it was a wedding anniversary, promotion. You get a raise, bar mitzvah, bar mitzvah, whatever it is you've got going. This is when we celebrate, which is on occasions birthday.
That's once a year for a gator. We celebrate every day. Right. Right. I celebrate every day. It's eight o'clock in the morning over here. I'm on fire Gordon.
Gordon Brewer: Right,
Dr. Jason Branch: right. Yeah. Why? Because I'm celebrating life. I can't believe I get to do this every day. Yes. I can't believe I get to help people. Yes. And teach and learn and get, I cannot believe it.
And now I'm on your show giving me away. Mm-hmm. I love the fact that I'm able to do this because no one's ever heard about the Gator and Salamander 'cause it didn't exist before me. If it did, I didn't meet 'em. I didn't know who it was. Yeah. But we're hearing it now. And that creativity, we all have it, but we don't tap into it.
And we don't tap into it because of rules, systems, beliefs, culture, community, you name it. Yes. And what I'm doing in my life is shedding these beliefs and ideas that don't serve me anymore. And theres so many that we hold onto that doesn't serve us. So how do I begin the process of get rid, getting rid of them?
And one way for me is being done. And when I say done, life allows you to be done with people, places, and things, and then we can decide as individuals to be done with people, places, and things. Done is not DONE. Done is DUN done. What does that mean? Mm-hmm. To do things intentionally that's different, uncomfortable and new.
Every single day, I am done with people, places and things, meaning I do something different, uncomfortable and new every single day. Even being on your show today is something different, uncomfortable, and new for me. Mm-hmm. But I'm still mean. This experience is new and different, which means I can be vulnerable and feel like an imposter, but I'm not based on the facts.
Right, right.
Gordon Brewer: I'm sorry, Gordon. This is great. You, you guys too. Good, man. It's you is great. This is great stuff. You know, a few thoughts that, that I would, I'd love to add to this and I, one, one thing you know, in some of the work that I've done, you know, just consulting and teaching much like you, I mean, we've got, a lot of parallels to what we both do in different ways. But you know, one of the things that I tell people, particularly when they're starting out in this field is don't compare your starting point to somebody else's middle point.
Dr. Jason Branch: Yes. Yes.
Gordon Brewer: And, and the other thing too is, is that even though I might be at a middle point, it is also a starting point for me, just like you're talking about every single day.
Dr. Jason Branch: Absolutely.
Gordon Brewer: And so my starting point. Might be your middle point and vice versa. Exactly. And so really, really be being able to do that. And I think the other thing too that you, you said Jason, that just I think just has always re resonated with me is the consistency piece. Just to keep going, being, as I like to say, be persistent and consistent with what you do and mm-hmm.
That will get you there. It will mock. It will never be perfect. None of us is perfect. Yes. None of us will ever get there. But it's, it, what, it's what moves us forward. It's what moves us forward. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Jason Branch: Absolutely. I don't, I, I love what you're saying, and I want to add to that, the consistency and the patience by being consistent.
Mm-hmm. By being patient, you will get everything you're supposed to have. Right. And for many of us that's struggling. Why, why hasn't it happened yet? It hasn't happened yet. That doesn't mean it's not gonna happen, and it doesn't happen on our time. Right. You know, if you think about all the accomplishments that we have and all the things that we've done, it wasn't on our time.
We had our own agenda and life had its agenda too.
Gordon Brewer: Right,
Dr. Jason Branch: right. So it's being, it's being okay. Yeah. In the gray being Okay. In the gray, in the gray is in between that black and white. And that black and white is either right or wrong, perfectionism all day long. Right,
Gordon Brewer: right. Yeah. So I'm, I'm curious. I'm gonna, I'm gonna roll you on your back a little bit here.
Let's go. Go. I'm, I'm here for it, baby. I'm here. So, so, so, so, yeah. So one, one of the things that I'm guessing for you particularly as a person of color there were times in your life when you just felt totally like an imposter and being thrown into situations where, you know. You stood out as being different, all of those kinds of things.
And I know from, from the snooping I did on your website, one of the things that you do, which I think is absolutely phenomenal, is working with men of color probably around all of these issues of really overcoming that and overcoming all of those things. So, so say more about that.
Dr. Jason Branch: Oh man, this is a whole show.
We might need another episode. Okay. Right,
Gordon Brewer: right. Yeah. So
Dr. Jason Branch: number one, I appreciate the acknowledgement of my blackness. Mm-hmm. Because I am a, a black male, I do identify as a black male, and I'm a black male therapist who has a therapist. I'm like a unicorn, y'all. But I'm black with a gold horn. Hmm. So we gotta call it what it is, so,
Gordon Brewer: yeah.
Right, right. You know,
Dr. Jason Branch: throughout my life and even currently, I still deal with life in the United States as a black man. So it doesn't, for some people, it doesn't matter that I have a PhD. Doesn't matter if I have a suit or tie on. For some people they can't see beyond my appearance because they can't see beyond my, my skin color, right?
So for some people, I am right. I'm a mythical creature, like a uni unicorn, so mm-hmm. If I'm at the university or I'm, I'm in classrooms or leaving classrooms, my students know me or about me, but nobody else knows. So I could leave the classroom and somebody could assume that I'm somebody I'm not. And more often than not, that happens.
Yes. Meaning what are you doing here? Or are you here to pick up the trash? Or are you here to, you know, are you a student? Mm-hmm. It's never. At the top and then work our way down. It's always, mm-hmm I'm down and then we gonna work our way up. So that's my lived experience every day. Mm-hmm. So one of the moments, and, and I'm glad you asked the question, one of the moments that I'm so familiar with of this impostor syndrome or feeling like I don't belong in most of my programs, and this is for a lot of black men in the helping profess.
From my master's to my PhD, it was the exact same. I was the only one. I was one of one, meaning the only black male from classes before me and after me. Mm-hmm. And majority of my programs were mainly white women in this profession. Yes. Helping profession. Mm-hmm. Mainly white. White women. Right. But not just white women.
White people. So if you go to any conference, counseling, conference, more often than that, it looks like a bowl of mashed potatoes with a few specks of black pepper.
Gordon Brewer: I love
Dr. Jason Branch: that. I
Gordon Brewer: love that it's
Dr. Jason Branch: white, it's white's that, okay, that's what it's, that's the history of it. And it's changing. But being in those spaces, you, and you don't see other people that look like you, you begin to emulate or assimilate to the environment.
Do y'all know how hard it is as a black man to try to be a white woman? It's one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life. Yeah. And I failed at it miserably because I'm not. Right. I'm not right. But if I don't see anybody that looks like me, and the only people that I see that only people that I see are are white women, then I assume I need to be them.
Right? And early in my career, that's my idea how I'm navigating. And that was horrible. So once I recognized that this doesn't work for me, I had to live life based off of my truth. I'm a black man in a counseling program, in a counseling profession. I, I know how unique I am, so let me just show my uniqueness by just being me.
Mm-hmm. And when I started to give myself permission to be me authentically, my life changed. Mm-hmm. So I look at parallels. Mm-hmm. Three parallels to be exact. Who we were, who we are, who we're becoming. Yes. That's a constant experience from birth to death.
Gordon Brewer: Yes. So
Dr. Jason Branch: I can think back when I was a doc student and feeling insecure and I'm not enough and imposter syndrome, and then getting beyond that of I do belong.
I am supposed to be here, but what am I supposed to be doing? Mm-hmm. Being to get to the future version of me who I, I'm becoming, or how I've become and I'm still growing is I do belong. I'm supposed to be here. I have facts, I have evidence. I am him. And that's why I am now. But that require a lot of work.
And one of the proudest moments for me related to work is to be a to be a student working towards becoming a therapist who've never experienced therapy before. And it wasn't until my second year in a master's program where I was encouraged, Hey, y'all need to experience therapy for yourself in order to do this work.
And I'm like, okay, lemme go try therapy. And I scheduled appointment at the health and Wellness Center schedule. It canceled. Scheduled again, canceled again, scheduled a third time. Mm-hmm. And I finally went, and when I went, I'm on campus going to the wellness center, looking around me to see who sees me going into this building to see a therapist.
Yes.
Gordon Brewer: Yes. Mm-hmm.
Dr. Jason Branch: So even when I get there to sign my name, I put Clark Kent. 'cause I'm Superman in real life. I put Clark Kent instead. My real name Uhhuh. And I had a, a black woman therapist for the first time having therapy. And I go in and sit on, sit, sit down and, and start talking. I felt like I was talking to Oprah.
And I gave this woman everything, not knowing how much I was carrying, just being a black male in America. Mm-hmm. Being on campus, being in this space. Right. And that changed everything for me because. If the barriers and stigma around mental health and counseling is that in depth for black people, specifically black men, then I can't imagine how this is for everybody else who's not even in these spaces and places.
So I was still plagued by the stereotype of counseling and mental health, and that's when I knew I'm gonna dedicate my, my career and my life to this, right? Because it makes sense to me.
Gordon Brewer: Yes. Yes. Oh, tha Jason, thank you so much for being vulnerable and, and sharing that, because that's a Yeah. And I think that's, you know, as we, as we know, being in this field, I've been in it 30, almost 30 plus years now.
You know, it, it's it's real easy to, put up that, put up that shell, just like you said, see the hard, scaly side, which we need.
Dr. Jason Branch: Mm-hmm. We need
Gordon Brewer: that. We need that protection. We need to have those boundaries. I like the way you, you framed it in terms of boundaries rather than protection. Absolutely.
Although it serves both. But I like, I like I think of it as a boundary because you have control of that. Yes. But the only way we grow is by getting vulnerable and getting them comfortable. And it's just
Dr. Jason Branch: absolutely.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, it's like, just like when you first learned to ride a bicycle, it was scary. You couldn't, you, you know, it didn't feel right, but that was the only way you're going learn is for it to be absolutely, to be scary and, and getting absolutely yourself in there.
So, yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Jason Branch: So, and I want to share some evidence of fact now. As I mentioned before, in order to get to the heart, you get to that vulnerability for a gator, you gotta get 'em on my back. And Gordon, you are able to get me on my back by being curious. Yes. By opening the door and asking the question, not assuming, not putting your beliefs or thoughts or perception on me, but opening the door for conversation.
And that's a skillset, Gordon. Yeah. Everybody doesn't have that man, and I appreciate mm-hmm. And I value you having that because you can get anything from me now. You can have me on my back. Mm-hmm. So you,
Gordon Brewer: yeah. Right. That's, that's for
Dr. Jason Branch: any, that's for any of us as human beings. When we know somebody is curious and they care.
That's what changes everything. Yes. 'cause a lot of us aren't curious and a lot of us don't care. Yes, true. And part of that is, that's because I don't have to mm-hmm. I don't have to care about anybody. Mm-hmm. I choose to, and especially being in this profession, like there's a, my my belief, this is my belief, a lot of people in the helping profession, we got into this profession because somebody helped us or they didn't.
That's it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Somebody helped us or they didn't. So being here, and especially 30 years in the game, plus 20 years for me, this, this 50 years we have on this podcast right now, and that's a beautiful thing. Mm-hmm. And that's wisdom from experience. So this conversation alone, to me, can change the perspective of a lot of people because it gives insight related to vulnerability and going behind the curtain.
Right. Of what's really going on and what's it really like? What's the lived experience? And more often than not, for many of us, we don't get a chance to share. We don't get a chance to talk about it. Right. And people don't ask the assault. Right. And Gordon, my hat goes off to you, man, for Yeah. The questions for the opening for, hey, let's, let's, let's come in, let's connect together.
Mm-hmm. And talk about some things that we usually don't talk about. So I appreciate you, I appreciate the platform. It means the world to me, and for people to hear this and not know what it's like. Because many people are in these programs that see one of one and it's just like, oh, they're they doing just like everybody else.
Now. It's several other layers that a lot of people aren't aware of.
Gordon Brewer: Right, right. Yes. Yes. Well, Jason, I've gotta be respectful of your time and I know we could spend all day talking all day, about all day, every bit, every bit of this, and I'm so grateful for you to be be on the podcast. Okay. So tell folks about your podcast and where they can find it, and also how they can be in touch and other things that you offer.
Dr. Jason Branch: Absolutely. So I am a licensed professional counselor. I am seeing new clients. I do wellness coaching as well. I do retreats, I do consultation. I do pretty much everything. So whatever you need, I got you. Best way to get in contact with me is www.drjbranch.com. And. I, my podcast is called The Three Parallels Podcast, where we rediscover who we were, embrace who we are, and make room for who we're trying to become.
This is found on Spotify, YouTube, all your favorite streaming platforms, and I'm just here to give you all me. So typically I'll have a guest on Sunday, on Wednesday. It's just me talking to give people. To overcome perfectionism, imposter syndrome for us to just be who we are. It's okay. Who you are and where you are, you belong.
How do I know? Look at the evidence. Right? Right. Don't trust me. Trust the facts.
Gordon Brewer: Right, right. I love that. I love that. Yeah. I look at the, yeah, and it's yeah. You know, I think, you know, and just working with not to get too far off on, on a tangent again, but, you know, and just working with other therapists and that sort of thing you know, it takes a lot to get through college to get through a, an advanced degree and you know, stuff, you know stuff.
And give yourself credit for the stuff that you know, and the persistence that you did to get through all of that. And yeah, absolutely.
Dr. Jason Branch: Absolutely, Gordon. Thank you, man. Yes, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. I would love to come back whenever you have any Yes,
Gordon Brewer: yes. And we'll do and we'll do that. And so yeah, and so we'll have links in the show notes in the show summary for everyone, and definitely we'll be having another conversation with Dr.
Jason Bran. Thanks, Jason.
Dr. Jason Branch: Absolutely. Have a great one.