Couples therapy can be some of the most rewarding work we do as therapists, but it can also be one of the most challenging.
Many couples don’t reach out for help until things feel like they’re falling apart. By the time they sit down in your office, there are often years of resentment, hurt, and miscommunication built up beneath the surface.
In this episode, I’m joined by Dr. Wyatt Fisher, a psychologist and couples therapist who has spent years refining his approach to helping couples work through those deeper issues. Wyatt shares how his own personal and professional experiences shaped his work with couples and why he eventually moved away from the traditional weekly therapy model.
We talk about the power of marriage intensives, how addressing resentments first can change the entire course of therapy, and some of the practical tools he uses to help couples rebuild connection and accountability. Wyatt also shares how he’s structured his practice to include intensives, coaching, classes, and conferences to create a more comprehensive model for helping couples.
If you work with couples or have ever wondered how to structure therapy so couples can make real progress faster, I think you’ll find this conversation really interesting.
Meet Dr. Wyatt Fisher 
Dr. Wyatt Fisher is a licensed psychologist who has specialized in marriage counseling since 2004. He holds a master’s and doctorate in clinical psychology and helps couples repair their relationships through practical tools and structured approaches to resolving resentment and rebuilding connection.
Dr. Fisher’s passion for helping couples began after experiencing his parents’ divorce as a child and later navigating significant challenges in his own marriage. Through years of intentional work and healing, he and his wife rebuilt their relationship, which now informs both his personal and professional perspective on marriage.
In addition to his private practice, Dr. Fisher hosts the Dr. Wyatt Marriage Podcast, where he shares practical advice and strategies to help couples build stronger, healthier relationships.
Why Many Couples Wait Too Long to Seek Help
One of the realities of couples therapy is that most couples don’t reach out for help early. By the time they finally schedule an appointment, the relationship is often already in crisis. As Dr. Wyatt Fisher explains, couples are usually “bleeding” when they come into therapy. One partner may be considering divorce, resentment has built up over the years, and communication has often broken down.
This timing creates a real challenge for therapists. When couples come in once a week for a 45-minute session, it can feel like therapy is barely scratching the surface of the deeper issues at play.
Why Weekly Couples Therapy Often Falls Short
Dr. Fisher shared how his early work with couples followed the traditional therapy model of weekly sessions. Over time, however, he began noticing a pattern. Couples who were in serious distress struggled to make meaningful progress when therapy was spread out over weeks and months.
Between sessions, they would often fall back into the same patterns of conflict and frustration. Seven days is a long time when a couple is already in crisis.
For many couples, progress simply felt too slow.
That realization led Dr. Fisher to rethink how couples therapy could be structured in a way that better matched the urgency couples were feeling.
The Power of Marriage Intensives
Instead of spreading therapy out over weeks, Dr. Fisher began offering marriage intensives. These intensives typically include six to eight sessions in a single day with breaks in between.
This format allows couples to go much deeper into their core issues without constantly stopping and restarting the process week after week.
From the therapist’s perspective, it also speeds up the learning curve. When working with couples, it takes time to understand their patterns, sensitivities, and history. In an intensive format, the therapist can gain that understanding much more quickly, which allows for more targeted and effective interventions.
For many couples, the experience feels far more productive than traditional weekly sessions.
Starting With Resentment
A key part of Dr. Fisher’s approach is focusing on resentment first.
In many relationships, unresolved resentments sit beneath the surface and quietly drive conflict, disconnection, and defensiveness. Couples may try date nights, communication strategies, or intimacy exercises, but those efforts often fail if deeper resentments are still active.
According to Dr. Fisher, nothing else works well in a marriage until those resentments are addressed.
Once couples can openly discuss and process those deeper hurts, it becomes much easier to rebuild connection and trust.
The Reunite Tool
One of the frameworks Dr. Fisher uses in his work with couples is called the Reunite Tool. The purpose of the tool is to create a structure that allows couples to talk about difficult issues without the conversation escalating into conflict.
Many couples struggle to discuss their resentments safely. Attempts to talk about problems often trigger defensiveness, criticism, or emotional withdrawal.
The Reunite Tool acts as a kind of guardrail for these conversations. It helps partners stay focused on understanding each other’s experiences, taking ownership of their impact, and offering empathy and repair.
When couples feel heard and see their partner taking responsibility, it opens the door for real healing to begin.
The Love Buckets Framework
Another powerful tool Dr. Fisher shared is what he calls the Love Buckets framework.
In this approach, each partner identifies three things that make them feel loved and three things that tend to drain their emotional connection. The positive actions are referred to as “fillers,” while the negative patterns are “drainers.”
Couples then develop a regular practice of giving each other feedback on how well they are meeting those needs.
The process includes a simple but powerful set of questions. Partners rate how the week went, identify what their partner did well, and discuss how things could improve.
This structured feedback creates accountability and helps couples build new habits that support the relationship over time.
Teaching Couples How to Give and Receive Feedback
One of the challenges couples face is learning how to receive feedback without becoming defensive.
In the beginning, many couples struggle with the Love Buckets process. Partners may argue about the numbers, feel discouraged by criticism, or interpret feedback as an attack.
Part of the therapeutic process is helping couples develop the mindset needed to use feedback as a tool for growth rather than conflict.
Over time, couples learn how to communicate their needs clearly while also staying open to hearing their partner’s perspective.
When that shift happens, the relationship begins to change in meaningful ways.
Building a Comprehensive Relationship Model
Dr. Fisher’s work has evolved beyond just therapy sessions. Over the years, he has developed a comprehensive model that includes marriage intensives, weekly relationship classes, conferences, and relationship coaching.
After completing an intensive, couples often continue strengthening their relationship through ongoing learning and accountability.
This layered approach helps reinforce the tools couples learn and gives them continued support as they implement changes in their relationship.
Advice for Therapists Working With Couples
For therapists who work with couples, Dr. Fisher offered a clear piece of guidance.
Start with the resentments.
When couples come into therapy, it can be tempting to focus on improving communication or encouraging positive activities like date nights. While those things are valuable, they often fail when unresolved resentment is still present.
Helping couples identify and process those deeper hurts creates the foundation for everything else that follows.
Advice for Couples Entering Therapy
Dr. Fisher also shared an important reminder for couples beginning therapy.
Many partners walk into therapy sessions ready to list everything their partner is doing wrong. The session becomes an opportunity to point fingers and defend positions.
Unfortunately, that approach often leads to more conflict rather than progress.
Instead, couples benefit from approaching therapy with curiosity and ownership. Rather than focusing on blaming their partner, they can bring concerns forward in a way that invites understanding and growth.
When both partners take that approach, therapy becomes a space for real change rather than another arena for arguments.
A Mission Rooted in Personal Experience
Dr. Fisher’s passion for helping couples is deeply personal.
Growing up in a home affected by divorce shaped his desire to help marriages succeed. Later, his own marriage faced significant challenges that required years of work, healing, and commitment.
Those experiences now inform his work with couples every day.
His mission is simple but powerful: helping couples build relationships that bring greater joy not only to themselves, but also to their children and the communities around them.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher | The Practice of Therapy Podcast
Gordon Brewer: Well, hello everyone and welcome again to the podcast and I'm really glad for you to get to know Dr. Wyatt Fisher. Welcome Wyatt. Glad you're on here.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Thank you.
Gordon Brewer: Yes. And, uh, Wyatt has a, a podcast of his own, and you'll get to hear some more about that. But as I start with everyone, tell folks a little more about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Sure. I was raised in a divorced home and so this desire to help couples started when I was young.
That's when the, the seed was planted to try to help families stay together. And as I got older, started going to college, I was just really looking for my calling and felt that pull more and more to work with couples. Why not, you know, in the helping profession. And so I went to graduate school and became a couple's therapist.
So I've been in private practice since 2004, and then my own marriage, I've been married since 1999. We've had. Our own journey and we actually went to the brink of divorce and back, and so we're happier now than we ever have been in our marriage.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Uh, but because we've been through some highs and lows, when I'm working with couples, I definitely am coming from both a personal perspective and a professional perspective.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, I think it's interesting because I was, um. Having a conversation with someone else on another episode. And we were talking about bringing our own experience to the, to the therapy room and how, how that really kinda lends a lot of credibility, I think, to what we do when we can, can relate our own personal experience to all of that.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Yeah, I definitely think it peaks one's empathy, insight, understanding on not only relating to the couple, but also what they need to move forward. If you've been through challenges yourself compared to therapists who have had an idyllic marriage and they can't really relate mm-hmm. To the struggles, they don't know what it feels like to have those resentments or to feel out of love and so, mm-hmm.
I think, you know, all therapists can be effective, but especially. The ones who have been through some tough times themselves. Sure,
Gordon Brewer: sure. Yeah. So, um, you've had a long time successful practice. How has it evolved for you over the years? Uh.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Yeah, well, it's, you know, I did, uh, weekly sessions for many, many years, and I'm still doing some of those.
Um, but what I found through the years was that the weekly sessions are not a good match for couples on average, because when couples first reach out for help, they're bleeding. Right? I mean, it's, it's a crisis. It's an emergency. One of them is on the brink of divorce. Couples usually don't reach out for help until they're at that stage.
So then considering they're at that stage. And then for them to just come in once a week for 45 minutes, it was just scratching the surface. We're just barely getting going and now you have to wait seven days. Mm-hmm. So a lot of couples, uh, would just kind of lose steam. And they would just feel like, mm-hmm.
We can't, I can't keep this up because we're not making fast enough progress. Because between those sessions now we have seven days of needs not being met of conflict. And so it's just too little, too late. And so what I've started doing over the last few years is transitioning to offering intensives.
And intensives are where I do anywhere from six to eight sessions in one day. We take breaks throughout the day, but what I've found is that it's tremendously superior because couples are able to really get into, you know, the core issues, their core resentments make headway, feel, hope. And it's also helpful for the clinician because for me.
As other clinicians know, it takes a while to get a handle on a couple and to understand their dynamics mm-hmm. And their sensitivities and their history. And so if you're seeing them once a week, it takes a while to become more and more effective. And so if you're seeing them for a concentrated intensive, the learning curve is much faster at how the clinician can become more effective as well.
Gordon Brewer: Right. Yeah. So how do you structure those? Uh, do you have a particular format that you use in doing those? I do intensives.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Yeah, I do. Yeah. So we start off with just the traditional intake forms. I meet with each partner alone for about. 15 to 20 minutes, uh, sometimes a little longer, and I go through their intake form.
So I get to know each one more thoroughly in their background and what they're looking for with their problems in the marriage. And then when we come back together, I have them consolidate their top resentments in the marriage. And so I go through common categories of resentments. We talk about resentments, what they are, how they show up.
And so usually each partner has three to five, four to six core resentments. Um, you know, common categories can mean communication, emotional intimacy, sex, conflict style, trust, addictions, parenting in-laws, finances, uneven workload, and feeling voiceless. Yeah, those are some common ones.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: So once they've identified their top resentments, we spend the rest of the intensive going through one at a time with a method I use called the Reunite tool.
Mm-hmm. And the reunite tool is basically just a way to keep it safe, to talk through those resentments to get further in those conversations. 'cause the problem most couples face is we have all these resentments and we can't even talk about 'em. Because if we try to, things blow up, things escalate, we get defensive, right?
And so I think of the reunite tool, like when you go bowling and you put the guardrails down so your ball doesn't go in the gutter. That's what the REUNITE tool does for the conversation. So we can get a lot further to experience more progress and more hope.
Gordon Brewer: Oh, that's great. Do you, uh, what sort of fo once you do the intensive, what sort of follow up is after that?
I mean, do you go to just weekly sessions or how does that usually work for you?
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Yeah, normally, uh, there's a couple options. There's a few other things that come with the intensive. When someone signs up for an intensive one thing they can do is schedule another intensive. Our top goal is to get through the resentments.
So sometimes it takes one day, sometimes it takes two full days, sometimes three, just depends on how many they have. Uh, the other thing that comes with the intensive is four weeks in my marriage class, I do every week called tools. And that's where we just learn a new tool every week, such as how do we handle conflicts better?
Or mm-hmm. How do we develop e emotional intimacy? So every week there's a tool, they get four weeks in that, and that's a virtual class, and they can keep going beyond that month if they'd like. They also get tickets to my marriage conference. I do every quarter in Denver.
Gordon Brewer: Okay, cool.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: And, uh, so they're able to attend that and that's really great concentrated time for them.
And then the last piece I recommend, it's not included, but I recommend it, is I teach. Uh, students on how to become certified relationship coaches, like we talked about before. Mm-hmm. Starting this
Gordon Brewer: right.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: And so I have a team of three master coaches who work for me, so I always recommend couples who go through my intensivess.
Once they've addressed all the resentments, then they work with one of the master certified coaches weekly for their love buckets. And the love buckets are where they put it all together. They give and receive feedback once a week on their top fillers and drainers in the marriage. Mm-hmm. For accountability and long-term change.
Gordon Brewer: Wow. Wow. You've put a lot of work into this over the years, it seems like.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: I
Gordon Brewer: have.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Yeah. Have, yeah. Yeah. It's been a lot of,
Gordon Brewer: yeah.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Uh, just kind of re refining the model.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. It's, uh, that, that's interesting because I, I think, um, and just thinking about the people that are. In my, in this, did you usually listen to this podcast?
You know, therapists and private practice and, I think it's such a, it's such a great way to think about expanding your income streams or thinking about diversifying your income by developing a model like you have done. Did you think about it in that way when you started doing it, or
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: I did.
Yeah. Uhhuh. Yeah. It was both. It was, you know, how can I de develop a model that's gonna be highly effective for couples? Mm-hmm. But also. That's gonna be able to support my family, right? And so it's kinda a double motive and it's always a work in progress, right? Mm-hmm. To see how to structure that.
But I, yeah, so that's, that's kinda what I've come up with and been using that for a while. And it's a nice combo because they get the, mm-hmm. The concentrated work for the intent for the resentments. Then they get the follow up with me for the conference and the tools every week. And then the supplemental weekly with one of the coaches.
So combined, it's very comprehensive, um, and it helps pay for the bills.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. So with the conference, how is that structured for you? Is that are people coming in from all over the country or how does that work?
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Yeah, normally, since I'm based in Colorado, most, I would say 90% of the couples are Colorado couples.
You know, usually with these. With any marriage conference, you know, people look for what's local first.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Uh, I, I'll have couples fly in from other states. Uh, you know, one couple flew in from Alaska one time and or from California, so it, it happens, but it's, the majority are Colorado couples.
Mm-hmm. Um, I hold it at a hotel in Arvada, which is, a suburb of Denver and it's eight 30 in the morning till four o'clock. It's six sessions where I present for about 45 minutes. Then there's a 30 minute break for the couples to apply what we just talked about.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: And then during those breakout sessions, I walk around and answer questions.
So it's a really powerful concentrated day.
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: And actually the material, they're, they're learning in the tools class. That curriculum repeats every 12 weeks. And so in the conference they learn all those tools in one day. Oh wow. So it reinforces the same material they're learning in the tools.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: So usually both are helpful 'cause it's nice to have the concentrated day, but it's helpful to review those tools over and over until they become their new normal.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. So again, uh, do you mind sharing some examples of some of the tools? Uh, just, uh, yeah, kinda spark people's, um. Interest. Got my interest anyway.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I've already talked briefly about the reunite tool. Uh, you know, that's the biggest of the tools for resentments, you know, to get over resentment, normally couples need two things. They need to feel. Heard, and I need to feel like my partner's owning something. They're empathizing with their impact on me.
They're making an apology for the piece they're owning. The reunite tool accomplishes that, and then I need to see some changes over time for me to really forgive, you know, my partner and that change over time. That comes through the Love Bucket tool. So that's what they would be doing with the Master coach afterwards.
The Love Buckets is one of my favorite tools because what you do is you identify the top three fillers. You need to feel loved. So love languages, mm-hmm. Uh, it's not, it's not limited to the five love languages. There's actually nine that I use that are common, but it's not exhaustive. People can pick any love, language, anything that makes 'em feel loved.
So they have to pick three. That's the fillers, and then they have to pick three. Drainers. And the drainers are the things your partner does that makes you feel negative toward them. Things that you feel make you feel neglected, feelings get hurt. What frustrate you? So you put that together. So I have three fillers and three drainers, and so does my spouse.
And then we get in this routine through the sessions of giving and receiving feedback.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: And the feedback you ask per item per week is, what's my number for the week? You're gonna get a number. Uh mm-hmm What did I do right? And how can I improve?
Gordon Brewer: Wow.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: And that combination of the quantitative data, because you're getting numbers on how well you did mm-hmm.
Plus the qualitative data from what did I do right? How can I improve through that process. It's really powerful, not just for accountability, long-term change, but also for refinement, because I'm a big believer of that. The biggest asset for your marriage for improvement is your partner. Mm-hmm.
Because they know you like no one else. You know them like no one else. So if we can create some safe structures to give and receive feedback and grow from that feedback, we're gonna sharpen each other and make each other better versions of ourselves and the love buckets and my in uh, experience is one of the best tools to facilitate that.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. That's brilliant. That's brilliant. I love that. Yeah, I know being a couple's therapist myself, you know, that's one of the things that, couples will seem to be hungry for is just having homework. Um, yeah. And, and things that they can actually do. And so I think that the, having that framework is just, um, I, I love that.
I love that idea.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: And a lot of it's the mindset you're training them on as well. Because in the beginning, couples can't do love buckets on their own because mm-hmm. They'll get defensive with the feedback or they'll get defeated. You know, why try, I'm never gonna make you happy. Mm-hmm. Or they'll argue over the num the number, like, what?
I should get a better number this week. That's not right. So there's a lot of learning curves happening, right? Mm-hmm. I'm learning what I need. I'm learning how to define what I need. I'm learning how to give you feedback and give you a number. I'm learning what you need, how you're defining that. And then I'm learning how to start doing what you want and stop doing what you don't want.
And that's the biggest learning curve of all for all of
Gordon Brewer: us. Oh, sure, sure.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Right. And I'm sustain that, sustaining those gains. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: So what I say with couples is the goal is to get to the number system is to get to plus 20 and above. Net number plus 20 and above, uh, the best possible number is A plus 30.
The worst possible is a negative 30 after you add up all the numbers. Mm-hmm. So once you get the plus 20 and above that shows you're cracking the code and you're figuring it out. And then once they do that several sessions in a row, then they're ready to start slowly phasing out. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. That's
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: So it gives them the finish line's, which is nice.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. That's good.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Right?
Gordon Brewer: That's good.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah,
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: yeah. 'cause nor normally with couples therapy, it's like, are we gonna do this forever? What? How do we know when we're done?
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: I
Gordon Brewer: love that. I love that. I love that. So well, um, uh, why not? I guess we need to be mindful of our time, but tell folks how they can find you and, um, if they're interested in maybe learning more about your structure and what you do, and maybe even participating in some of it.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Sure. Yeah. So my podcast is, uh, one of the best ways to learn more. My podcast is the Dr. Wyatt Marriage podcast, so definitely check out the podcast. My website is Dr. Wyatt fisher.com and my social handle is at Dr. Wyatt Fisher, and I'm pretty active on the major social channels.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, now I was watching some of his YouTube's videos earlier, and so they really are well done.
And so really doing a great job with all of that, uh, which I appreciate. Oh, thank you. So, and we'll have links of course, in the show notes, in the show summary for people to get to it easily. So any, any parting thoughts that you have before we. Conclude.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Would this be parting thoughts to other therapists or to couples?
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, well, both or, yeah.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Yeah. If I'm speaking to therapist, I would say when you're working with a couple, start by addressing the resentments first. Don't start with date nights. Don't start with how to increase intimacy. Start with resentments first, because as long as there's active resentments, nothing else is gonna go well.
Gordon Brewer: Alright. Yeah.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: If I'm speaking to couples, I would say when you go to your couples therapy session, do not be pointing the finger at your partner. And that's what couples wanna do, right? I'm mm-hmm. I'm holding this stuff in until we get to our next therapy session, and now I'm spending the whole session pointing the finger, and now my partner's pointing the finger back at me, and now we're just fighting in the session.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: So, instead think about how can I bring up my concern with my partner in the therapy session without pointing the finger at them?
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Because the blame, right? The blame is just so common for couples, but it's one of the biggest mistakes couples make in therapy is I get the session and then I just blame my partner.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, it's that whole, um, to put it in kind of the terms of how the gottman's put it, is that whole cycle of criticism and defensiveness that just sabotages everything within a relationship.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Yep. Yep. So instead of saying, yeah, they really suck at giving me empathy. You did such a bad job this week.
Instead of that, it would be, Hey, can we talk about empathy this week? 'cause we're not very good at it. We need some help. Mm-hmm. That's the way to bring it up. So it's neutral. It's a we instead of you.
Gordon Brewer: Right. Yeah. Whole new language for couples. Yeah. Okay. Yes.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Uh, Wyatt, again, great to have you, and hopefully we'll have some more conversations here, here soon.
Dr. Wyatt Fisher: Sure. Thank you for having me.
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