In this episode, Teva Johnstone sheds light on the children’s mental health crisis, which has been brought to the forefront by the COVID-19 pandemic. Therapists like Teva Johnstone have had to adapt and pivot their practices to address the challenges children and parents face. The conversation highlights the need for alternative approaches, such as online education and coaching with parents, to create long-lasting change. The pandemic has increased awareness and conversations about children’s mental health, but it is crucial to recognize that the crisis existed before the pandemic and requires ongoing attention and support. Tune in as we chat about how to unlock creativity in the classroom, homeschooling, and supporting children with autism.
Meet Teva Johnstone 
Teva Johnstone is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker in California who specializes in supporting the parents of autistic, spirited, and highly sensitive kids. She creates online courses for parents interested in homeschooling for children’s mental health and social development.
Teva Johnstone’s Journey from Therapist to Parent Coach
Teva Johnstone talks about the issue of children’s mental health crisis, which has been further exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. The conversation revolves around the challenges faced by therapists and the need to pivot towards online education and coaching with parents. Teva shares her experience of working in various practice settings, including school-based therapy, private group practice, foster care, and her own private clinical practice. However, with the onset of the pandemic, Teva had to reevaluate her career direction. The shift to remote therapy for children proved to be ineffective, leading her to pivot towards working with parents. She recognized that working with parents can bring about long-lasting and solid change. Teva’s Instagram following allowed her to expand her coaching practice beyond California, attracting parents from all over the country and the world.
Unpacking the Pandemic’s Impact and the Preexisting Struggles
The conversation also delves into the impact of the pandemic on children’s mental health. The sudden disruption of school and social interactions has profoundly affected children’s well-being. While the pandemic brought children’s mental health into the spotlight, Teva points out that research indicates children were already suffering before the pandemic. The crisis has merely highlighted the existing issues. The silver lining of the pandemic is that it has made it more acceptable to talk about mental health. The stigma surrounding mental health has been reduced, leading to increased awareness and conversations about children’s mental health. However, it is essential to recognize that the pandemic did not cause the crisis but rather intensified it.
The Impact of Excessive Screen Time on Children’s Mental Health
One of the main factors contributing to the children’s mental health crisis is the phenomenon of a phone-based childhood. Children today spend an alarming amount of time on screens, with the CDC reporting that they spend between six and nine hours a day on entertainment screens, not including educational purposes or online classes. This excessive screen time is detrimental to their mental health for several reasons. Firstly, children are not meant to spend their formative years on screens. They should be out playing, moving their bodies, and engaging in normative social challenges. These activities help build resilience and social skills, which are crucial for handling challenges in life. When children are constantly glued to screens, they miss out on these important developmental experiences.
Modern Challenges Impacting Children’s Mental Health
The parenting culture has also changed, and parents have become more fearful for their children’s safety. They are reluctant to let their children play freely in the neighborhood as they fear kidnapping or harm. This overprotective parenting style further contributes to the phone-based childhood, as children are kept indoors and rely on screens for entertainment. Excessive screen time, lack of physical activity and social interaction, and overprotective parenting all contribute to the crisis. Addressing this issue requires a multi-faceted approach, including promoting alternative educational models that prioritize autonomy and self-direction, coaching parents on setting healthy screen time limits, and creating awareness about the importance of outdoor play and social interaction. It is essential to prioritize children’s mental health and provide them with the support and resources they need to thrive.
Rethinking Schools for a Changing World
One of the key points discussed in the podcast is the need for schools to prioritize creativity in education. The current education system is outdated and fails to foster creativity in children. Teva highlights the historical context of schools designed during the Industrial Revolution to teach compliance and create obedient workers. However, this approach is no longer effective in today’s rapidly changing world. Children need opportunities for play, creativity, and exploration in order to develop important skills such as problem-solving, critical thinking, and divergent thinking. Teva argues that schools should focus on teaching children how to learn rather than simply memorizing information. The current emphasis on getting the right answer and conforming to rigid standards stifles creativity and discourages children from thinking outside the box.
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Okay if you want to deal with all the little blurb
Hi, I'm David Johnstone and I'm excited to be here on the practice of therapy Podcast. Today we are going to be talking about the children's mental health crisis and being a therapist and pivoting into online education and coaching with parents. Perfect.
Well, hello folks and welcome again to the podcast and I'm really looking forward to you getting to hear from Teva Johnstone welcome, Teva.
Thank you, Gordon, thanks for having me on.
Yes. And so we were chatting a little bit ahead of time, I don't know that this is necessarily a topic we've covered on the podcast before but I know you're you're going to be interested in this and this just around, you know, children's mental health and just being able to help parents with all of those issues, particularly parents that homeschool. But Teva is a start with everyone. tell folks a little bit more about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed?
Sure. So I am a licensed clinical social worker in the state of California, I have been a social worker for just about a decade now I'd have to go through and count again, but close to a decade, if we include graduate school where you know, we do our social work, internships and our therapy practice learning. So I have worked with kids and adolescents and parents the entire time I've been in this work. And some of the practice settings. I've worked in our school based therapy on IEP teams, and just general counseling as well. Private group practice, foster care. And I had my own private clinical practice for a while as well. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Oh, so how did I land here where I am now. The pandemic hit. I was working at a private group practice seeing children with developmental trauma. And I also had a leg in school based therapy at that time, and you know, just everything shut down. So everything was switched to remote. And seeing kids remotely is a lot like herding cats. It's just not effective. If we're being totally honest. Teams, you can work with it, but kids not so much. So I really had to reevaluate the direction I was going with my career, which was always to open an in person, child practice. And I got licensed at a time when everyone was literally walking away from their in person offices. So it wasn't a time to lease an office. So I tried having an in person home practice for our sorry, a virtual home practice for a while seeing kids for therapy. And I ended up closing it and pivoting because it's just, it's not effective work. And working with parents is really, really where the change, in my opinion, is most long lasting and and just most solid. So I pivoted to seeing parents virtually. And because I built quite a following on Instagram. Parents from all over the country, and really all over the world were interested in consulting with me and working with me. So I opened a coaching practice that allowed me to see parents outside of California in a non clinical fashion.
Yeah, yeah, that's that I think that's something that is important that people hear from me all the time is, is that I think a lot of us in this field, particularly as mental health providers really need to recognize that we have a lot of knowledge and skills and just wisdom, that translate send other ways in that we don't necessarily have to do it. The traditional but in chair, you know, one to one kind of counseling and therapy with folks, that there are a lot of other ways that are probably even more effective, truthfully, than doing things in that way.
I agree. I agree. So it's been an exciting pivot. It's definitely, you know, a learning curve because there really isn't a map for therapists who branch away from the traditional model. So it's been a learning process and kind of carving my own path which with which has both been exciting Eating and also just sometimes overwhelming and frustrating, and but I wouldn't have it any other way. I love it right?
Yeah. Yeah. So here we are a dare we say post pandemic. And I think that just really changed the way we think about mental health. And that, as I've said before, here on the podcast, I think one of the, one of the silver linings of the pandemic is it made it okay for people to talk about mental health number one, and kind of ended some of the stigma with that. But I think what we also saw, as you've recognized is that when you start pulling kids out of school and out of their social situations, it really has a huge effect on them.
It really does. Definitely, it really put into the spotlight. I think he put into the spotlight, children's mental health, the pandemic, more than maybe we were talking about it before. And I know that people I know it's tempting to blame everything on the pandemic and school closures. But if we really take an honest look at the research, the children have been suffering for some time. Before the pandemic. Yeah. So, yeah, it's kind of an onion, you just keep pulling back the layers and more. More is revealed by Yeah, but But you're right. one silver lining is it put the discussion of, of mental health in general, and also children's mental health in particular? Kind of on center stage. Really? Right? Yeah,
yeah. So yeah. So the question then becomes, what is it that you've learned about children's mental health and kind of what you see as I guess, for lack of a better way to put it, what we need to do about it, and how you're working with that particular issue? And what's led to it and all of that? I know, that's a really broad question. And we could probably talk for hours on that. But what are your thoughts on all of this?
Sure. So there are, there are several key pieces. But I would say that I agree with Jonathan Hite, that one of the most significant drivers of children's the children's mental health crisis today is a phone based childhood. And a phone based childhood is detrimental for several reasons. But one of them is because it children are not supposed to spend their formative years on a screen. They are supposed to be out playing, moving their bodies engaging in normative social challenges, social joy, normative risk taking all of these things, build children up, to being resilient when things out of our control might happen to them, like say, you know, divorce or these various things that we know to be challenging for children. When children are built up living a developmentally normative childhood that is not on a screen, they are just more prepared to handle the challenges of life. And they're more socially adept to handle when things are disappointing and frustrating and angering and don't go their way. And what we're seeing today is children are spending, the CDC just released some data that they're spending between six and nine hours a day on a screen for entertainment, meaning not educational purposes, not school, not online classes. And girls are posting pictures of themselves going through puberty and waiting for likes and all of this stuff. It's just so bad for them. It's so bad for them. Then the other piece, and this is connected to living a phone based childhood is the parenting culture has changed since about the late 90s where parents now are very fearful of their children. being kidnapped or harmed in some kind of way, if they are out free playing in the neighborhood, like we grew up doing, right? And I don't want to sound like I'm shaming parents, because we all live in this culture together. And I know what it is to be concerned about a young child. I do. But we are over parenting. We are over parenting, and it's not good for the children. So they're not out free playing. They're not engaging in these normative social experiences. They're glued to screens. And it's harmful. Oh, yeah, frankly, it's harmful. Yeah. So these are these are some key factors in the children's mental health crisis. I would say it goes even further than that. I could just keep going on and rambling.
Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Are you sure? This is good stuff? Yeah. Okay.
So I follow the work closely of Dr. Peter Gray, who's an evolutionary psychologist. And his work is studying more traditional societies in how children learn through play and autonomy and risk taking. And He is credited, he's not a founder of the unschooling movement by any means. But he is an advocate and proponent of allowing children to have more self direction in their education, and more autonomy. Because we know that these things are important for human wellbeing, including children's well being the positive, the field of positive psychology points this out, we need autonomy. And so Dr. Peter Gray is an advocate for giving children more autonomy. And this really starts with the schools with their education. And Dr. Gray highlights that prior to COVID. And prior to the introduction of the smartphone and a phone based childhood, the children were already suffering with increased depression and anxiety. He has been following the tragic suicide rates of children. And if you look, which are over 100% Right now, since we introduced this, the smartphone for ages 10 to 14. And this is hard data based on attempted suicide completed suicide, and ER visits for self harm. Wow. And Dr. Peter Gray argues that school plays a huge role in this because of the more modern coercive nature of school. And I say modern, because at the, at the beginning of compulsory education in the United States, school was about four hours a day. And so we cannot compare it to today's School, which is seven to eight hours a day. So we're looking at a 40 plus hour a week, sedentary job for children. That follows them home. They can't even escape it. It follows them home with homework, two to five hours a night of homework. And then as the CDC just released, if they're not doing their homework, they're on a screen. So it's not just one factor. It's a complex multi factor problem. And as therapists we know that you can't just point to one thing. But the suicide rate of children follows the school calendar. It significantly drops off in the summer, which is the opposite for adults. And it is near exact aligned to the school calendar, including taking pauses at Spring Break and winter break. And we're talking about completed suicide, not just the teacher notice noticed a risk of harm to self and then had the child admitted.
Wow. Yeah.
So school is a big part of this. I argue. I mean, I agree with Peter Green.
Yeah, yeah. It's interesting. It's a whole Well, this is you're talking about this are a couple of things that come to mind and it's just really coincidental. I was listening to a podcast that I listen to fairly regularly is called a Kimbo, and it's by Seth Godin. Yeah, I love Seth Godin. I know So yeah, yes. And so he was it was a replay. And essentially the podcast was about is what is what are schools for? And yeah, yeah. And so he was saying that out of the, out of the out of the Industrial Revolution, which is just kind of followed us, the purpose of schools was to teach compliance, not about how to learn stuff. Yeah, it was about creating obedient human being beings Exactly. So that you could have a workforce kind of thing exists. So much has changed since that time. So much. Yeah. And then I had another podcast that I, that I do. hasn't come out as regularly as I like to, but it's called the kindness and compassion podcast, but I interviewed the authors of a book called when you wonder you are learning and it's Mr. Rogers. And during, I'm reading it off the screen, and during lessons for raising creative, curious and caring kids, as by Greg bear, and Ryan modeski. And they were saying exactly the same thing that you're saying to us, is that if kids don't have play, if they don't allow are allowed to be creative to figure things out, to do all these, these fun things, it it, it hurts them, you know, they don't really, they become anxious, they become, you know, just really isolated, all of those things. And so, yeah, and so, yeah, I think you're right on the market, we really, you know, just thinking about advocating for things, we really need to advocate for changing the way that we're doing what we're doing to kids, as far as they're learning.
It's true. And I'm very familiar with that Seth Godin discussion about what is school for? Yeah. And I think that that is a question we are not asking, we assume that school is to prepare children for a, you know, maybe a bright career and to help them, you know, gain knowledge. But I would argue that is not happening today. The children are not gaining knowledge. If we look at, you know, literacy and things like that. It's a dinosaur model. Anything we want to know, we can look up, Seth Godin talks about this all the time. We don't have to memorize everything. It's it's a click away. Right? We, you know, the joy in learning happens when we are allowed to play with ideas. And school does not permit playing with ideas, because school is about getting one right answer. And if you don't get that answer, you are punished. Yes, you're punished with a bad grade, and your parents might punish you as well. And you might get attention and you might get held back. And you know, the late Sir Ken Robinson talks about the future is about problem solving. In order to problem solve, you need to be somewhat of a divergent thinker. Yes. School teaches the exact opposite. It teaches a conforming thinker, yes. School punishes divergent thinking. So it's not even that it just discourages divergent thinking it actually actively punishes divergent thinking. Sir Ken Robinson said that divergent thinking is the baseline for creativity. And create and schools kill creativity and problem solving. You do not put a man on the moon if you are not creative. And we are simply not raising up these kids. Right? And it hurts the kids, it hurts society. It takes all the joy out of education. And I am I'm here for the change. Yeah, I'm here for the
I'm with you. I'm with you. There was something else about that podcast as you were talking about this a reminder. It was a good metaphor, I think and I'm paraphrasing the metaphor is that schools are designed to teach kids to memorize how many dots there, how many dots there are rather than teaching them how to connect the dots? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
I love Seth Godin. Yeah. Named. Yeah, absolutely love it.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I will have a link in the in the show notes here for people to find that podcast as well, because it's a it's a great one. He really, really is a brilliant thinker, and really causes us to think about things in a much different way than we're there we're taught to think are conformed we're a form to think Yeah, it's true.
We're so rigid. Yeah. It's so funny, because as therapists, one of the tools in our own toolbox is helping our clients become a little more cognitively flexible. Yes, yeah, about their own problems about their approach to solving their problems about viewing, you know, relationships a certain way and making some changes. It's about flexibility. Mm hmm. And we, as the adults are so rigid. Yes. And we teach kids all the time to be flexible. And here we are so rigid in our, in our thoughts about education.
translates into Yeah, the other thing it does is it translates into a lot of anxiety for parents, because there's pressure parents feel this pressure to have their kids make good grades in school and to excel in school. And they'll and they'll put that, they'll put that pressure on their kids to start at an early age. And just think about my, my daughter when she was growing, when we were growing up, we've, we felt that we bought into that idea that she had to, you know, do well and do all the AP courses and all of that kind of thing, which she did well. And funny kind of anecdote, and I'm so proud of my daughter. She is now teaching kindergarteners and first graders at what is called the by Hatchie, for school in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And she is outside with the kids all day playing in the creeks and doing all the play. And that is the whole focus of that particular school.
I love it. Oh, yeah. To talk with your daughter. That's Yes, that's my jam. I love that. And that's development that's developmentally aligned. Yes, that is developmentally aligned. And that is going to raise a child who is mentally well, a child who maintains their curiosity and their love of learning, and their ability to think outside of the box and be creative. And it's just, I can't even stop listing all the positive qualities that can come from that. Right. Yeah, yeah. And I was gonna say, you know, so what your daughter is doing is absolutely wonderful for children. And sometimes teens get left out of this conversation. Yes. And the thing about being developmentally aligned for teens, is teens need to feel useful. Teens, really, and I'm with John Taylor Gatto on this one, the late John Taylor Gatto, who was a public school teacher in New York City, and has some very controversial thoughts on education. But he says, you know, teens need to feel useful. And teens should be learning out in their communities in more of an apprenticeship model. It should not be glued to a desk for four years of their some of their best years of their youth. Like he says, Children should not be institutionalized for 13 years. Like, when we really look at it, it's an institution. And I say, open up the classroom doors, and Free The Children, frankly, with programs like what your daughter is teaching, and then programs like apprenticeship models. As a team, you know, some teens really are college bound, they're getting ready to be doctors, engineers, and their their path of learning is going to look different from the future entrepreneur, like the Seth Godin, or the future person who's going to install your air conditioning or build the extension on your house. Yes, there's more than one way. And, and that's what I love about a homeschool approach is because you can give your children a truly individualized education that sets them up for a bright future.
Right. Right. Yeah. And protects their mental health. Yes, yeah. Well, that's that's what good segue to talk about, you know, the things that you're working on now. So tell us about that and your courses and kind of your work with parents.
Sure, I would love to. Um, so I created a course for parents an online course for parents, because what I found was, I was consulting and coaching parents, and they would have the same questions. And my hourly fee is not cheap. But and frankly, and here I am answering the same question over and over again. So why not put it together in a self paced online course, that is more cost effective than seeing me live one to one, and can help a broader amount of parents who are looking for some change in their child's education. So I made a course it's called a therapist guide to homeschool. And it's really about creating a homeschool plan that fosters mental health and development, and builds up the protective factors of what science and clinical experience tells us protects children's mental health, and builds up their resilience. I draw from the field of positive psychology in for a portion of the course. And I also teach parents in that course, how to homeschool as a working parent. Because the reality is most of us work. Not all of us can do the traditional homeschool model, which is parent is home parent is facilitating teaching lessons that look a lot like maybe school, at their dining table. Parents are either not interested in that model, or they're not available for that model because they have careers. So in the course I really show parents that there's more than one way you can do it as a working parent. And here's how. And here's how to do it in a way that really focuses on your child's mental health and development.
Yeah, that's great. That's great. I love I love that concept. Because I think, yeah, schools or schools are getting hard for kids. I mean, they're just, you know, like you said that just the school day being so much longer now. And, you know, unfortunately, I think to some parents are seeing school as a way to, to kind of babysit their kids kind of thing. Yeah. So that's, that's a whole whole other topic. Well. Yeah, but yeah, it's wonderful stuff. So tell folks in I've got to be respectful of your time Teva. tell folks how they can get in touch with you and find out more about what you've got to offer?
Sure, sure. So they can find me on Teva johnstone.com, my website, all of my course offerings are available on my website. And they can contact me through my website for consulting and coaching if they prefer a live one to one model. I also support parents who have autistic children who have lower support needs, or what we might call like level one autism. Parents of children who are spirited so these children are just more intense. They're highly sensitive, they might not have a diagnosis, but we know that parenting them is a little more challenging. So I help these parents too. With coaching and consulting. I have a very active sometimes controversial Instagram account. It's rebel parents rebel dot parents, where people can come and say hi, parents and therapists. Follow me there. Awesome.
Awesome. We'll have have links in the show notes in the show summary for folks to find out easily. So what Teva I know we could talk about this topic all day long, but I'm glad you joined me for the podcast, any parting thoughts? Before we close things out?
Thank you, Gordon. It's been such a pleasure to speak with you. And you're right. I can just go on and on and on about this. I absolutely love this topic. Closing thoughts. I would say to parents, please don't lose hope. Please don't surrender. Please don't throw up your hands and just surrender to this is just the way it is now for kids and what am I to do to change it? I would say don't ever let yourself go there. Because change is possible. A joyful education is possible. And children's mental health is poor. visible and normal and and waiting for us. And so let's not surrender to the crisis.
Awesome. Awesome. Well thanks, Teva. So glad I get to know you and hopefully we can have another conversation here soon.
Thank you, Gordon. Thank you so much.
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