The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer:
Well, hello everyone. And welcome again to the practice of therapy podcast. And I'm so glad for you to get to know as I have Linda Sanderville and just my short conversation here before we started talking, I think you're really going to like her. I know I do so welcome, Linda. Thank you so much. Yeah. So as a start with everyone, why don't you tell folks a little bit about your private practice journey and how you've kind of landed where you've landed and, and kinda your story?
Linda Sanderville:
Yes. Thank you. So my story starts with big we're a social workers. You probably have experienced this at least once already, unfortunately, but I think you know, I started out in foster care when I first started working after grad school. And that was the time that I hit my first period of burnout. I left the kids that I've worked with, but the system was incredibly frustrating and disheartening to me. And I ended up becoming really ill after like eight months. And I ended up putting my notice then after that my mom at the time, you know, she was really concerned about how I was doing and, you know, after hitting that wall, I was like, okay, this is not working. And I knew that I wanted to do my ultimate goal was to go into private practice and to do therapy.
Linda Sanderville:
So it wasn't as if I was really working in that role or out of my strengths, I need way. So I hit that wall and I was like, okay, I have to reassess and really stick to, but I know I want to do what I long to do. So I started working in community mental health from that point forward, I learned a lot. I supervise other clinicians. I learned a lot about how to treat trauma. That's my specialty. And I, you know, trained in trauma programs and built up a, a trauma therapy model within the agency I was working in. And then I went onto military mental health working with teenagers and families. And then I went into a DVT practice coherent DVT or adherent coherent that was coherent to I'm here. And working with those who, you know, have self harming behaviors and suicidal behaviors.
Linda Sanderville:
I learned a lot there as well. And, you know, along those different along that journey, there, there were other periods of milder forms of burnout. And I knew I wanted to find something sustainable, something that would work for my lifestyle but would allow me to use those gifts. I knew I had a gift to do this, and I've always had a heart to work with those who have experienced trauma. So I just had to figure out a way to do it sustainably. So after I got pregnant and quit my last job, I was like, okay, I've got to figure this out. And that's when I started to kind of build what I needed from my private practice. And I started that up three months after my son was born.
Gordon Brewer:
Wow. Well, and so how long you been in private practice now?
Linda Sanderville:
Just over a year. Oh, wow.
Gordon Brewer:
Yeah, that's great. Great. Yeah. Congratulations on that. Cause that's, that's a huge, a huge step. So yeah. So one of the things that I know you and I talked about before we started recording is just the fact that you are interested in how to create a practice that fits your lifestyle. So walk us through County, your process of doing that, because I know that that was, that's a big people that listened to the podcast, hear that from me a lot. You really need to make it fit your lifestyle. So how, how that process work for you. So
Linda Sanderville:
I'll do, I'll do a shameless plug for you here because I think that I'm listening to podcasts. I've always, I've always loved listening to podcasts. Like I'm a podcast junkie. I'd rather do that than listen to most things in the car, but, you know, before I actually jumped off and started my own, I listened to a lot of private practice podcasts and yours was definitely one of them. And I appreciate your awareness and just sort of like the fact that you hammer home, that we have to make it fit our lifestyle. I think before going into it, it wasn't even, you know, when you're, when you've been an employee for so long, you have it just a totally different mentality about how work works. And so you don't realize that there can be other possibilities in the way that you do business when you've been working for someone else, like for most of your life.
Linda Sanderville:
So I think, you know, podcasts like yours there's Tiffany McClain, Hey, Tiffany, who talked about some similar themes. And that made me realize that I wanted to start off from the beginning with a very strong foundation and clarity about what I needed this to look like, because my priority is my family. I love my work and that's, it's a calling for me. So it's, it's a mission and it's something that I, I need to have a part of as a part of my life, but I want to be there for my son as well. And my just my family in general. And so it had to I had to figure out how to make that work so I could still take care of myself. Right. And therefore take care of my clients. I think that was the connection that was formed for me. And I was like, Oh, I get it now. Like, if I don't take care of myself, my clients, aren't going to be taken care of, you know, like the times before right. Burnt out, or I had to leave a job or things like that. I didn't want to have to leave this. So I wanted to design it from the ground up in a way where I would never really have to.
Gordon Brewer:
Right. Right. So how, how did you do that? How did you yeah. Where did you start? Because I think there's a lot of folks that are in that same situation. And I know that was true for me. I worked for an agency, it sounds like similar experience. I've worked in foster care and intensive home care and all that. And it's just, it's, it's noble work and we need people to do that work, but it's, it is tough. It's tough for you. Yeah. So, yeah.
Linda Sanderville:
Yeah. So how did I do that? You know, I think one of the first things was like one of the first steps with any adventurous sort of unlearning unhelpful information. Right. So, so being a social worker and then just kind of having my own self-sacrificing style of, of doing I had to recognize that for myself and I had to sort of learn how to reflect on and examine sort of social work culture in a more objective way so that I wouldn't base it or drag that into a feeling of like feeling guilty, you know, for wanting to take care of myself. Cause there's, there's sort of this martyr, like quality sometimes to the tower work as clinicians, like you're there for your clients, they need you they're vulnerable. Like you gotta just stay up late hours and work this, you know?
Linda Sanderville:
And I just, I was like, Oh wow, I really bought into that and really felt guilty doing something different. So I think I'm learning that as a standard was really important. And then just actually looking at numbers, you know, like actually, what do I need to sustain myself to make sure I have really great childcare, you know, while I'm doing my work, you know, all that kind of all that kind of numbers work. So what will it take for me to feel really great and excited to show up consistently to work with my clients. So looking at the numbers, looking at the money and money is one of those many things that we're not taught about in grad.
Gordon Brewer:
Right. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
Linda Sanderville:
And so I think I'm learning how to value the work that I do and seeing like, Oh wow. This, even though we don't traditionally think of their therapy as being like a, a, how do I say it, an expensive service. I'll just say that, you know when someone goes to hire a lawyer, they assume it's going to cost them a lot of money. When someone goes to get know medical surgery, they assume it's going to cost a lot of money, but there's something about therapy where there's sort of like this societal expectation that it's like almost for free or something like that. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer:
I wonder how much of that is, is created by us as therapists and social workers. That's a good question. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's, yeah. Yeah. It just all debate as you were saying that, and I love the way you put that, just that, you know, we have this expectation of, of, you know, yeah. You've got to adopt her and that's why you have insurance and all that sort of thing, because it's expensive. But somewhere along the way, we've kind of gotten, gotten this idea that therapy is shouldn't cost anything.
Linda Sanderville:
Right. Right. And when you think about all the years of experience that go into that all the years of an financial investment for us as clinicians and continuous, right. Cause I have, so I'm licensed in four States just because of where I used to live was I tri state area in the DC area. Now I'm licensed here in New Mexico, but you know, I'm keeping up all those licenses, the education. And then just things that I, you know, where I, when I see different needs come up with my clients again, because I built it into my, my structure financially. I want to be able to, you know, invest and take classes and learn different things that will further help the class.
Gordon Brewer:
Yeah. So it sounds like you did a lot of work around your own as I like to refer to it. Money shame. Yeah. So, yeah. So tell if, kind of, what was that process for you? I mean, just kind of, it sounds like there was a mindset change for me.
Linda Sanderville:
Totally. A mindset change. So just first of all, recognizing that I have subconscious money blocks was really important. You know, recognizing that I had money, a shame, I think I didn't quite realize I had that until I had to start looking at it and thinking, Oh, I'm going to charge more than, you know, these people are, you know, people want to pay, you know, $75 for therapy. I'm going to charge more than that. Like, what does that say about me? Am I greedy? And I think just recognizing that anyone who knows me knows I'm not greedy, it just simply wasn't true. It was like this feared perception. And so recognizing like, okay, again, I, if I don't, if I want to be able to make this sustainable so I can continue to use my gift for years and years on end, like I would like to then I can't do this for free.
Linda Sanderville:
I can't do it for to free, you know? And when my clients invest in me, then I'm going to be able to show up so differently for them. They're going to get results quicker. They're going to go way further in their work and therapy than maybe they have before with other therapists. And because I've always wanted to be excellent at what I do, I had to figure out a way to make that possible. So recognizing that I had subconscious money blocks looking at the actual numbers without emotion, the emotion where it came after, but just without emotional looking at the numbers when it needed to be, to be sustainable as a business. And I think too I'd heard it said that, you know, kind of how we operate as clinicians, as nonprofits so often, like there's like this nonprofit lifestyle or mentality and it's like, we're not, we're not a nonprofit cause at business, like, unless you are actually making money from what you're doing and hopefully you're doing it well you basically have an expensive hobby. Right. and I'm the stunt expensive hobby for me. This is my whole life's work. So I need to value it as such and actually when I value it less than other people will too, including potential clients.
Gordon Brewer:
Absolutely. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Linda Sanderville:
That was a lot of the work. I feel like I'm missing a piece here. And I think, you know, with what I do, my framework that I use with coaching other clinicians and healers, part of that is looking at a liberated identity. And so seeing how my own trauma in my past, and then just ongoing racial trauma, I mean this year has been in many ways kind of retraumatizing for me. So recognizing the, the effects of how I can tend to tend towards devaluation of myself as a result of these other experiences and sort of working with that and placing them appropriately so that they are not impacting my business.
Gordon Brewer:
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Say, say more about that because that's just a, the, say that again, deliberated. Yeah.
Linda Sanderville:
Liberated identity,
Gordon Brewer:
Liberated identity. I love that. Yeah. So what was that process like for you to cut that or arriving at that or ongoing thing? Yeah. Right.
Linda Sanderville:
Absolutely. Yeah. so I think about as a black woman you know, what would I do? How would I do things if I had like white man confidence. Right,
Gordon Brewer:
Right. Yeah.
Linda Sanderville:
So I love this. Okay, great. So, so I think about in general for women, how women in general do not tend to, you know, ask for more money. They don't tend to go for promotions as often ask for races when they do ask, they don't ask for as much as their male counterparts would. And this is like any industry. You don't have to be a clinician. Like this is just true. And so when we lag behind in that way, because we don't have that, that boldness to just show up and ask for what we want then we're continuously lagging behind. So then you're talking about like a difference over a lifetime of thousands and thousands of dollars in lifetime earnings. Right. Which may equate to millions of dollars lost in lifetime earnings potentially. So I think for me, it was shifting from a place of like do I have the right to ask for this? Based on my location, you know, socially to, I have a responsibility to ask for this, I have a responsibility to ask for more, to take care of myself financially and all the ways that, that helps me to take care of myself emotionally, mentally, physically because as a black woman I need to be engaging in really proactive self care. Like that's actually a must, it's not optional.
Gordon Brewer:
Okay.
Linda Sanderville:
And so that was really, that's the shift that's happened really pretty dramatically for me, but that's my responsibility. And part of that is even, you know thinking about like building generational wealth, you know black people in this country have significantly less net worth than white people in this country. And there's so many things that go into that, but one of the ways that we can address it is making sure that we are earning appropriately. So that's just one example. Right. So that's, that's true also for women who are working and, you know, a lot of times with women who have private practices, there can be this mentality of like, Oh my job as the side job. And you know, maybe like my husband, if you're, if you're married to a man or your partner's a man, you know, he has like the real job and I'm doing this thing, right. It's like, no, your private practice is a real challenge.
Gordon Brewer:
Yeah. Right, right, right.
Linda Sanderville:
So are you valuing it as such or are you kind of sending this message toward, to yourself and to others, but it's not, it's not so serious.
Gordon Brewer:
Yeah. It's just my hobby.
Linda Sanderville:
It's my hobby. I do, you know, make a, make a little money here or there.
Gordon Brewer:
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And, and I think that's, you know, I wish we had time to just dive into this because this has been something that has fascinated me. There was a book that I read several years ago, ago, you might be familiar with it. It's by Judy Payne, Judy Payne, I think is her name. And it's called a framework for understanding poverty. I think I've got the title. Right. And she was just talking about the mindset of different for lack of a better way to put it classes of people, you know, the ultra rich versus the people that are middle class versus those that are, you know, generational, poverty, that kind of thing. And just how they thought about each other and how they thought about their possessions, all of those kinds of things. And it sounds like you've done some of that work for yourself and that you and it's probably. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be curious to know when that dawned on you kind of thing. I mean, like when was that, that, that just kinda like, Oh, this is what it is. I mean, it's talking about creating generational wealth, which is the opposite of generational poverty, those kinds of things, but yeah. That's yeah,
Linda Sanderville:
No, so, you know, I, I read a lot, like I I'm, I just boom books. And so then I just put that on my list. Cause I'm like, that sounds like it's right up my alley, a framework for understanding poverty. So I've read books that talk about becoming a millionaire. Okay. Because I money is not everything to me. It really it's actually not. But money helps me to do other things that mean a lot to me. Right. And so I've looked at, you know, books from people who were in wildly different sort of career paths than us here who are clinicians who are building wealth. And it is so different. Like them, the mindset, the mentality is so different. And one of the things that I'll kind of jumping back a little bit to subconscious money blocks, one of the things I realized it was sometime earlier this year, I think I can't even remember how it came about.
Linda Sanderville:
I think I was a business coaching program that I was in was talking about this. So if you have negative feelings towards the rich, whoever you consider to be a rich cause that whoever we considered to be rich changes depending on our location, if you have negative feelings towards them, but you also want to make money, then your subconscious is going to help you to never be rich because it doesn't want you to be that person that you hate or that you criticize. And so I thought, wow, there's a perception about like, Oh, those people do this with their money and that's so selfish or whatever that is. And it's like, well, that's not even true. There's plenty of people who have lots of resources who are finding ways to give that away, to invest in their communities, to support other support their families. And that's what I want to do. Right. Right. I want to give away lots of money. So I can't, I can't give away lots of money and support causes. I care about if I don't have any, right. It doesn't work.
Linda Sanderville:
So that was part of it too, was just recognizing, like, if I want to shift generational poverty or low, low standards of living for different communities, I can't just sort of like live in that community and just sort of stay there myself and be like, Oh, let's all rise up together. Well, I need to, I have to do something different so I can have the resources to be a part of that change. And to represent that for others who didn't think that it was possible for them. Right. Cause I'm, I mean, I'm a second generation American. My parents immigrated here and you know, there's, there's a lot of like just really work hard and, you know, buffering and it's just what you gotta do and grind it out. And it's like, it doesn't have to be like that.
Gordon Brewer:
Yeah. Right. Yeah. I love that. And I think that's a, that's a message that I'm somehow I'd love for more of society to get. And that you know, and, and it sounds like too, for Linda, you've really taken ownership of your own stuff and your own kind of destiny to some degree. And I think that's, you know, that's a hard thing for people to overcome and get out of that, that kind of poor me kind of mentality kind of thing, you know? So yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I want to be respectful of your time and I'm sorry. I wish we had more time for conversation. I wish we could grab a coffee together or a cocktail,
Linda Sanderville:
Right? Yeah. Just happening the day. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer:
I just delve into this more and I have, hopefully I can get you back on the podcast, but tell folks a little more about how they can get in touch with you and about some of the consulting that you're doing and that sort of thing.
Linda Sanderville:
Yeah. I got, so you can find me on the internet, I'm on Instagram, that's resilient healer society and all about helping us to be resilient healers. And you can find me on my website as well. It's www dot Lynda Sandersville. That's S a N D E R V I L L e.com. And that's where you can find out more about the coaching that I do to help you overcome your subconscious money blocks, liberate your identity and create a greater wealth and impact for the communities that you
Gordon Brewer:
Awesome. Awesome. And we'll be sure to have all of this in the show notes and show summary for people to get to easily. So well, Linda, I'm so happy to have had you. I am just real quickly before we get just just to check in with you, how, how are you doing with all the, the focus on racism and black lives matter? And just all of that, that there, just, if you're like, I'm guessing if you're like many of my other black friends it's been, it's been kind of retraumatizing around just other issues in life. Yeah.
Linda Sanderville:
Right, right. Well, and the fact that, you know, I have a son, I mean, he's, he's multiracial. But I want this world to be better for him. And, you know, I think the things that have happened this year in addition to just being a mom and just being a human in the world right now it actually makes me more determined to get this message out. And that's why I appreciate you letting me come on here cause not everything's within our control and I'm totally aware of that, but there's a lot more within our controls than we sometimes think. And so I want to help others to really come into their power around what they can do and you know, and I, and I'm very careful about how much media I taken because it is so there's just so much happening and it is really upsetting seeing black bodies experiencing violence is to me, it's not something that I, I can't watch that for my own mental health, but I can do, I can do what I kind of on my part to support the causes that are meaningful to me.
Linda Sanderville:
And that's part of my driver
Gordon Brewer:
For sure. Yeah. Are you familiar with the book? My grandmother's hands. No, it's not. Yeah. It's by I'll shoot. I'll have to be, as you were saying that, oops, excuse me. It's not letting me minimize, I'll have to, I, what I'll do is once we stop recording is I'll shoot you an email and we'll be sure have that in the show notes, but a it's written by another person in, in the mental health and caring fields. And it's about when you said black bodies, what re you reminded me of just the body the body trauma that a lot of us experience as a result of, as I think the way she puts it as, as a result of, of white privilege and just all of that and how it all ties together. But it's a wonderful book. I'm listening to it on audible right now, but yeah. So I'll be sure to have it in the show notes and I'll email you or tell you here. Thank you. It's by, but yeah, I commend that to everyone as well. So yeah, it's a, it's written by an African American woman and I cannot think of her name.
Linda Sanderville:
Sure.
Gordon Brewer:
So anyway, so, well, Linda, I'm so glad you were here.
Linda Sanderville:
Yeah. Do it again
Gordon Brewer:
Again. And that sort of thing. Love the work you're doing. And it's just been a privilege to talk to you.
Linda Sanderville:
Thank you so much. Bye Gordon. Bye bye.