The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer 0:00
This episode is brought to you by the solo to group practice webinar. It's a free webinar that you can find at practice of therapy.com slash group, and also brought to you by therapy notes therapy notes.com.

This is the practice of therapy podcast with Gordon Brewer, helping you to navigate your private practice journey.

This is session number 184 of the practice of therapy podcast. Hello, folks, I'm Gordon Brewer, glad you've joined me hope you're having a good summer. Well, if you're at least in you're in the Northern Hemisphere, and it's summertime, for those of you in the southern hemisphere, of course, it's wintertime. But you know, that's hard. I think when we live in different parts of the world, that's hard to remember. But anyway, whatever season it is for you, I hope that you're having a good one. And it's hard to believe that we're wrapping up June already, it's just seems like this whole year has just flown by just incredibly fast. But anyway, glad you joined me for the podcast, if this is your first time listening to the podcast, welcome. And I hope you'll come back for more. And I hope you'll take time to subscribe, then if you're back for more, I really appreciate the fact that you're following the podcast and that you're listening in. You know what one of the things I'm excited about, that's coming up in August. And I'll just say this, just as a quick note, and I've never done this before, but there's gonna be a conference in Nashville, Tennessee in August, 1 week of August, and it's called podcast movement, his podcast move at 2021. And it's a conference for podcasters. And my friend Joe Sanok, over at practice of the practice, but a shout out there to you Joe had given me a heads up about that. And so I'm really looking forward to going that and just learning from other podcasters it's probably the largest podcasting convention in the world. And so it's exciting that it's going to be close to me, I can drive to it and get to be and as we refer to Nashville, sometimes in Tennessee is nashvegas. But anyway, I'm excited about that, and hope to make a lot of great connections there. And yeah, just learn more about podcasting. Um, yeah, I just enjoyed this medium. And as I said, I listened to a lot of podcasts myself. But anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing from my guest today. mckaela boo Canary, and Michaela is a psychologist. But she's kind of branched off into teaching people about how to write, copy, and then sort of kind of getting getting into the marketing space to some degree. But a big part of our conversation is just talking about how you market or how you establish your practice in multiple states. You know, and I think since since COVID, and what we learned about telehealth, I think that's becoming much more of a viable option for for a lot of us. So looking forward to you hearing from from herb, one thing I want to couple of few things, really few kind of pretty cool announcements. One is that I'm going to be having kind of Independence Day, Fourth of July sale on all of our digital products. And if you got a practice of therapy.com. And just look under cool resources and any of the digital products there. And what I mean by digital products, that would be things like things through gumroad, which would be like the session note helper or paperwork, packets, that kind of thing are there and then also any of my courses, my online courses like Google workspace for therapists, and the money matters in private practice, or to my premier course, courses, I'm gonna have them on sale for 15% off and what you'll do is just use the promo code July for 21. And that'll, that'll get you 15% off on any of those things. And this all this sale, if you will, will be until July 5. So over the over the weekend. So take advantage of that and just poke around and see if there's anything there that you might be interested in. And again, you can just go to practice of therapy.com and just click on the cool resources button there at the top of the page. Ah, and that'll get you to all of the all of the stuff I have available. So looking forward to getting to that. The other thing I wanted to let you know about is my good friend date, Dr. David Hall is holding a continuing education event. And it's an online, again, an online thing that you can do. And it's on business ethics, it's called business ethics for psychotherapists, and you can get one free continuation credit with that course. And it's a free course that you can take. But if you're, again, if you'll look in the show notes, here, you'll see a link to that. And, or you can go over to psych maven.teachable.com, and see all of David's courses, he's got some great ones, but the said the free business ethics course you can find there and sign up. I've been through that course before in the past, and it's a great one. And it's, yeah, it's great way to get some free continuing education credits. And I'm grateful to David and all the collaboration that we've done over over the last few years, and I've got some great, great stuff, we've learned some fun things together. And before we get to McHale, I'd like to invite you to go over and check out our sponsor for the podcast, and that is therapy notes. And if you'll get a practice of therapy.com slash therapy notes, you can check them out. They are the leading Electronic Health Record system for mental health providers in private practice. They're who I use in my practice, and I just love their platform, it is one of the best out there. In fact, it's one, it's rated as one of the in the top 10 of all the jars for our niche. So be sure and check them out. And when you get to check out use the coupon code, Gordon, just g o r, d o n, and you can try them out for two months for free. So it's a great, great deal. So be sure to check them out practice of therapy.com slash therapy notes. And so without further ado, here's my conversation with Dr. mckaela boo Canary.

Well, hello, everyone, and welcome again to the podcast. And I am so happy to have with me today. mckaela boo Canary and Kayla, welcome. Thank you so much. It's a treat to be here. Oh, yes, yes. And I'm now just chatting ahead of time before we started recording. I think this is going to be just a fascinating conversation for people to listen in on but as a start with everyone mckaela Why don't you tell folks a little bit about your journey and how you've landed where you've landed? Absolutely. Thank

Michaela Bucchianeri 8:03
you I so I am a licensed psychologist in the Twin Cities area of Minnesota. And I'm a copy coach for health and wellness professionals. Really what that means is I help people like you and me unlearn a lot of the stuff that we've picked up along the way in our professional training, that can hinder our efforts to connect with the people that we're trying to reach with our practices. And my journey to that side of my professional identity kind of came about in a twisty turny sort of way, it was just on the job learning as I was looking to market, my own therapy practice with a small budget wanting to be able to kind of DIY, my website copy and my marketing. And I found that content marketing. So creating valuable free targeted content that would serve the people I was trying to reach turned out to be a really great way for free to get the ball rolling, and start getting some good word of mouth referrals. And so I've since transitioned to doing that full time supporting other health and wellness professionals and doing the same. It's awesome. It's awesome. And I know that one of the things that we were chatting about that you're really kind of helping folks with

Gordon Brewer 9:19
is really just this whole opportunity to market ourselves not just locally, but in for some people that statewide and other folks is just internationally and you know, throughout the world. And so tell folks a little bit about kind of how you landed on that and just kind of your passion around that.

Michaela Bucchianeri 9:41
Absolutely. So I can own first and foremost I won't bury the lead. I'm for licensure, portability, I'm for expanding our reach serving more people. And what I found is that there's a lot of excitement and awareness of that building. Not a lot in the way of practical guidance. For how a human being does that in the span of a workweek. And so what I've been excited to do is share what I hope is an encouraging message that marketing yourself in multiple areas does not have to mean exponentially multiplying your effort or your time investment. In fact, I will go ahead and say if you've already established a practice in one geographic area, you've already done the lion's share of doing all that reflection and all that niching down and getting very clear on who it is you're trying to reach. And then it's just a matter of repurposing some of what's been working best for you.

Gordon Brewer 10:38
Right, right. Yeah, that's up, you know, I think, is we've, you know, hopefully we're, as we're recording this, I think we're coming out of the whole COVID pandemic, at least here in the United States. Worldwide, it's a different story. But one of one of the things that I think most of us realized is that, you know, mental health care can be done very well in the online space. And so it, you know, one of the things that I started really kind of thinking about, I did a website redesign earlier this year, and one of our goals was okay, how do we market to a broader audience than just a broader reach than, than just here in our little local area? And so I think, I think that's gonna be coming. And I totally agree with you. I think, licensure portability is something we really need to push, as a profession is just too complicated and too, too many moving pieces for a group of professionals that do essentially, some of the same things. And yes, we need to get off of our little territory kind of thing. Yeah, agreed.

Michaela Bucchianeri 11:55
It's all made up anyway. Right? All the dividing lines. So Right,

Gordon Brewer 11:59
right, so so so tell folks a little bit about kind of your process for working with people around these issues, and really kind of thinking about, you know, expanding their reach with marketing?

Michaela Bucchianeri 12:13
Absolutely. So one of the first places I would begin is getting clear with people about what is their reach goal? Like who what, what are the territories they're actually looking to expand into, because what can actually happen is, there's this sort of in between area you have over here, someone who's looking to market, a therapy practice that is location specific. So maybe I'm online, but I'm serving people in my state state a right, then you have people who are like you if your website redesign and your business looking to reach a global audience, that will necessarily influence the words that you choose on your site, some of your SEO decisions. And this middle ground where I think a lot of therapists who have built a practice in one state are finding themselves but now want to expand into others is, where does that leave me, I'm not looking to be global, necessarily, because maybe I'm still looking at a list of states where I am licensed to practice as a therapist. But it's more complicated, seemingly than just one state. So to that person, I would say, it's really a matter of kind of taking a too tall, two pronged approach. The first is, no matter where a person is finding you. So whether it's on social media, on your website, on a therapist directly directory listing wherever it might be, you want to make sure that people in state a and state B and state z are getting a cohesive picture of who you are, you should we don't want to be shapeshifters. Right. And so we want to think about, I have a practice that has a constellation of different satellites, where I'm serving people. So that's one piece of it. And there are some specific ways that you can do that on your website. The other thing, the other side of the coin, though, is thinking about how can I do location specific outreach, because I'm being mindful of the fact that I am reaching people in multiple states. So it is there is an additional layer of complexity, but it doesn't have to be complicated. And so to that person, I would say, I'd begin with a simple mindset shift. Really what I find is a lot of people are saying when they'll describe their situation, a therapist will say, Well, I'm based in state a, but I want to serve clients in state B to the simple mindset shift is, what if you were to step back and say, I'm a therapist who's based in state a, and I'm a member of the community in state B, what might that do to how you think about location specific outreach, right, because that's something most therapists can wrap our heads around is okay, I need to get to know my local community, not just potential readers. For all partners, but also local, local politics, local issues of relevance to the people that I'm hoping to reach there. Right. Right.

Gordon Brewer 15:10
I love that. Because I think, you know, as I think about marketing to, within, you know, just within our professions, you know, I think we, we, we, we automatically kind of cringe when we hear the word marketing or selling or any of that sort of thing, which I get. But the thing about it is, is you got to, like, as you mentioned, just you have to be able to connect are, are at least understand what is going to cause people to connect with you in being able to, to help people because, you know, I'm a broken record here, but I, you know, marketing is just simply conveying to people how you can help them. Absolutely. And that's, that's, that's it. Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Yeah,

Michaela Bucchianeri 16:04
none of us went to school, usually, to get into marketing, when we went to our training to be therapists. At the same time, it's something we just have to get over, we have to redefine it for ourselves and see it for what it is, in our field. I really appreciated in your conversation with Andrea Jones, I loved the piece about we have to operate differently. For example, on social media, we can't say so, you know, describe a traumatic situation, like anyone with me share your story below, or tag a friend who could use some therapy, it's like, Uh huh, we have to front load that relationship building, by marketing by educating them on what we have to offer by helping them gain clarity around what that process looks like. And then from there, then hopefully, they're reaching out to us and we can go from there. But yeah, it has to begin with us proactively. Right? Right. And,

Gordon Brewer 16:56
and what I would add to that is really being able to convey to people in as few words as few words as possible, what their life will be, like, after they come to therapy, and what the potential is there. Yeah,

Michaela Bucchianeri 17:11
yes. Because, you know, no matter what all the wonderful things that are baked into our specific therapy process, it really doesn't matter. We need to be able to remove that from the picture. And, and yes, land on the sowhat for people. And I love how you said that.

Gordon Brewer 17:27
Yeah, yeah, that's great. So so I know another one of your kind of areas of expertise is just in copywriting. And, and so this might be a good kind of segue, if you will to talk about that. So yeah, so what are some things that people need to keep in mind and, and just being able to write copy for their websites or in social media, that sort of thing?

Michaela Bucchianeri 17:51
I think back to this kind of theme of unlearning, I believe that we are natural copywriters, we're natural communicators. Because when you think about what a professional copywriting agency, for example, would do, they begin with really targeted market research, understanding who it is that they're speaking to, well, who's better at natural market research, aka listening and empathizing with, then therapists were really good at this naturally. And so what I advise everyone to do is start by creating a bank, a copy Bank of words and phrases and excerpts from the people that you're trying to reach. So this might be a, it doesn't have to be fancy, this could be a simple spreadsheet, where you store just the terminology that your clients are using to describe what's bringing them to therapy, frustrations they have along the way, as well as that. So what the benefit you're talking about, where do they want to get to right? So we can think about something really simple like asking the miracle question in a session, right? If you woke up tomorrow, and none of this, were a struggle for you anymore, what what would be different? What would you be able to have access to in your life that you don't currently, whatever they would say on the other side of that question, put that in their words in your copy bank. And the idea here is that over time, you accrue lots of different examples of this copy, just the words that they're using, essentially, right. And themes would start to emerge and then you can pull from that and populate your website words, your marketing, your Instagram, captions, all of that, embed it in the words that they're using, and that's naturally going to attract similar clients to your work.

Gordon Brewer 19:43
Yes, yes. And what I would, you know, I would invite folks to go ahead and put in an early plug here. Michaela, go to your go to Dr. mckaela. Calm and look at some of what Michaela has. written there, because one of the things is that it's short. And it's simple. And it speaks exactly to Canada, the problems that you address with people. And I think that's, you know, that that was, you know, when I went to our website, I knew exactly what she did. So I think that's, I think folks can learn from that.

Michaela Bucchianeri 20:22
I really appreciate that. Gordon, that's high praise coming for you. Because I could say the same about your web copy. And I, I know that that's hard work. It actually, it's much more challenging to, to cut down what you want to say, it's hard to me judicious and intentional with our word choice. But we have to do that, because that's going to make our message connect that much more meaningfully with the people we're speaking to. Right. Right.

Gordon Brewer 20:49
Yeah. And I think I think what I've worked with various people, you know, across the country, and one of the things we do when I do consulting with them is we look at their website, and really kind of give them honest feedback around that. And one of the big mistakes that people make, I think is on their about page. They want to talk about themselves, which is, is is okay, I think some people are interested in that. But people really are not interested in the credentials, and the training and all of that sort of stuff. They want to know what you do to help. And so I think that's one of the things that we have to Canada. And it's like you said, a mindset shift. Because most of you know, fortunately, most of us are, are are blessed with having had a good education and, and kind of had that whole academic mindset. Yes. And writing copy for marketing is not like writing a term paper or research paper. Don't do that you will bore people to death, put them to sleep. And so you put it in everyday language. Yeah,

Michaela Bucchianeri 22:05
I love that. We have a great point, one of the first blog posts I ever shared. Back when I was building my own practice was the title was your website is not a resume. And it's it's that exact idea. It's like not about burying or denying our training and our credentials. You work hard for those. It's about sprinkling them in judiciously but that letting most of the talking be done by that bridge between. Alright, you're here on my about page, what are you dealing with? It's about you as the person I'm trying to attract to my therapy practice. It's about where you want to go. And it's about how I can help bridge that divide.

Gordon Brewer 22:46
Yeah, that. Yeah, that was one of the biggest secrets I learned. When I first got, you know, started way back when I don't take myself too much. But when I first started putting my website together, is that, you know, the the math is is that your bat your about page is about you as the therapist, but know your about page is about your client. Yeah. And that's, that's, I guess, a little secret to let everybody in. And the about pages that usually the most the second most visited part of anybody's website,

Michaela Bucchianeri 23:25
it gets a lot of traffic and I that usually terrifies people when they learn that fact, because they think Oh, now I have to confront the state of my about page. But the good news is it doesn't have to be that complicated. And as we're saying, it's actually about paring down what we probably already have written there to bring more focus. Right, right.

Gordon Brewer 23:45
Yeah. So yeah. So I know that to mckaela, you had mentioned some different resources that you have available for people that would you want to say something about that?

Michaela Bucchianeri 23:58
Absolutely. So I can pull together resources from what we're talking about here. So people can take the next step. And I'll just put them together on a page on my website. So Dr. mercola.com, slash TP OT, and I'll gather them there.

Gordon Brewer 24:14
And we'll have we'll have links in the show notes here. For all of that, but yeah, so, again, if you were thinking about some of the things that I know, we had talked about, just being able to have a like the way you put it when we were talking before we started recovering is having a cohesive online presence. Yeah. Do you want to say more about that?

Michaela Bucchianeri 24:41
Absolutely. So it's this idea that we don't have to become just as you wouldn't become a completely different person on your professional Instagram account from who you are on your website. Similarly, we want people no matter what state they're in finding us and getting the same clear picture And so that could be things that really have nothing to do with your actual writing, it could be having, you know, one, one, like the same image that you use across all these different platforms. This, you'd want to make sure that you settle on one clear statement of who you're trying to reach and have that represented on every platform, you want to make sure that, again, for people that are marketing themselves in multiple in multiple states, spell out what those states are on all your different platforms that's going to help people see Ah, I know, I know who this person is. And I'm getting the same picture no matter where I interact with them. Because that's the thing. We're we're at the center of all of our marketing efforts. We care immensely about every choice we're making to market ourselves. But we're usually overestimating how familiar the average therapy seeker is with us. So we have to assume that every possible point of contact is the only point of contact they're going to have with our business. And so how can we bring the full picture of what we want them to know about our practice to that platform?

Gordon Brewer 26:07
Right, right. Yeah, and I think it's, you know, one of the things too, is that, as we're talking, it dawns on me that all of this stuff we're talking about is, is really about your online presence. And, in in this day, and time, unless something drastically changes, if you don't have an online presence, it's gonna be very hard for you to reach people, because that's the go to absolutely for, for better or worse, it's the go to for people. But what about? What about developing relationships with in terms of getting referrals, you will see something about that?

Michaela Bucchianeri 26:51
Absolutely. So this is another place where we can take what has worked for you and your practice in one state, and replicate it in a new state. So one thing I really like to ask about when I'm working with a therapist is, what's your networking style, and that's another one like marketing, networking is one of those words, right? That just kind of makes us break out in hives. But of course, there's lots of different ways to network. And one of my very favorites, similar to what we're doing here is just collaborating together to share something of value to the person we're trying to reach. And so one place where I think we tend as therapists to get networking wrong, I don't say that lightly, but is that we will do all the work of identifying someone in our community who might be a good referral source. And maybe we hop on a call with them, and then we, it never really goes anywhere. And that's mostly because we leave it at. So here's my contact information, I'm accepting new clients. So thank you, it was great to meet you. And a much more strategic way is to think about what's one way I can make their lives easier. This is not just a referral source referral source. For me, this is one of my professional allies. That's how I like to think about it. Because the truth is, at any given time, our people, our clients who we're trying to reach are out there in the community, getting they're getting their needs met by other professionals all the time. Just because they're not connected with us for therapy doesn't mean that they aren't working on the same issues we could help them with in therapy in a different way. So one, one step I love to encourage people to take is just to sit down, put on some music, grab a beverage and do some brainstorming about who are my professional allies, depending on who I'm trying to reach. What are some other professionals in my community and you can really think outside the box. Like I encourage people even to think outside of healthcare. Think about all the different domains, you know, school career. You can think about health, you can also think recreation, faith, worship, that kind of thing, where other people have in contact with professionals in the community. And then how can I reach out to those professionals, and just have a conversation that actually doesn't focus on you and your practice right away at all, but asks, Hey, I know that we serve the same people. What are you encountering in your work with them? Where are you stuck, and then the trick orden is to listen for an opportunity where you and your unique skill set can help them out in some way doesn't have to be made their butt dip into the huge bag of resources most of us have and say maybe I can float them a little checklist or a quick worksheet or exercise or something that will help them to serve their people better. Then when the time comes and they're looking for a therapist that they can give a nice warm handoff of those people to your top of mind because you've helped them out already.

Gordon Brewer 29:55
Right? Right. I love that and you know, it's kind of One of the things that we again, that we were talking about before we started recording is just the, the beauty of collaboration as Yes. As opposed to competition. And I, you know, there is there are more than enough clients out there for all of us. And it's just a matter of being able to have them find us. And, and also being able to, you know, I think, you know, I was just I was reminded that I've got in my, in my staff handbook as part of one of our values in our, in our mission statement is that there's no room for competition. Yeah. And that we, we, by developing those relationships, where we're really helping, helping each other. I mean, it's like, you know, I love in a song. Sorry, I'm stammering so much, this has got my brain going so fast. Yeah, just thinking about one of the problems that a lot of us are running into, is that we're getting full. Because there's less stigma around mental health. Yes, you know, one of the silver linings of COVID was that people became, oh, yeah, this is what it's like to have anxiety. This is what it's like, like to deal with stuff that scary. And so we're getting full. And so being able to have those people that we can refer to, and they can refer to us, particularly if you understand specific niches, you know, it's kind of like, you know, um, I don't work with kids, but that people get calls all the time, you know, wanting to get their kids into see me and I said, just sorry. My daughter told me years ago, I suck at playing Barbies. So I'm not going to be a great therapist for you. Yeah. So yeah, so building those relationships, and really knowing your community kind of going full circle back to what you said at the beginning, of really knowing the communities you're working in. Well, is such an important piece, which is networking, marketing, whatever we want to label that.

Michaela Bucchianeri 32:14
Absolutely. And I think one of the things I love about taking a collaborative approach to this is that it allows, it's so narrow to think about ourselves in competition with other professionals, like life is just way too short for that. The minute that we think about, Oh, no, we're all on the same team collaborating, it opens up like cognitively we become more creative in our brainstorming. And we started to think we're all benefiting surely our clients are benefiting because now you have two heads working together to, you know, brainstorm how we can serve that client better. But we also have this wonderful exchange of value in the sense that, okay, if I'm reaching out to this other professional in a completely different field from me, but who is one of my professional allies, we're speaking to the same client, I might be coming up with a piece of content or something that I can do for them, that helps make their lives easier in serving that client. But I'm also at a minimum, if I'm doing my job and listening carefully, which we're already really good at, of course, I am getting all this insider information into a whole nother dimension of what life is like for my client. And so even though I might not be you know, me in the therapy room, if I'm doing body image work, I'm not going to try and counsel them on on different types of movement, for example, to build strength and endurance. That's, that's someone else's work. But it's very helpful to me to have that context of what work they're doing and what these other professionals are seeing with regard to my client. So right. It's all gold.

Gordon Brewer 33:53
Yeah, yeah. Oh, I love this. I love this. Well, Mikayla, I want to be respectful of your time. And I know that this is a conversation, we could probably continue for hours. And hopefully, we'll get to do it again, here, here before too long. But tell folks again, the best way to get in touch with you and and if they have more questions about what you do,

Michaela Bucchianeri 34:15
if folks go to Dr. mercola.com, slash TP OT, that's where I'll round up all the goodies. That's awesome. And

Gordon Brewer 34:23
we'll have links direct links in the show summary in show notes and your sub time to do that. Hopefully, we'll be having a conversation. Yeah. Thanks so much for being on the podcast.

Well, I'm so grateful to Dr. mckaela. For being on the podcast. And you know, one of the things about this, the space that we're that we're in, as I mentioned in our interview, it's just the Then, when we collaborate with each other as practitioners and as therapists and social workers and that sort of thing, you know, there's more than enough to go around. And I think one of the things that can happen is we can create this scarcity mentality. And then we think we have to compete with other therapists, which we don't, there's more than enough there. And I think that's something to keep in mind. You know, one of the things up quick shout out to one of the Facebook groups that I'm in, there is the East Tennessee, therapist, therapist networking group, that's a private Facebook group for people that are practicing in East Tennessee. And one of the things I did and this might be an idea for you, just in your area is I put together just did, I created a Google forum where people can fill out their information and just set up a Google Sites web page to share that information with everybody. And so everybody in that group has a link to that web page. And so it's like a, like a mini directory, to some degree, so we know who to refer to, and, and to be able to share. And that's a lot of what our networking group has to do with, you know, as kind of like Dino's somebody that works with, you know, kids with eating disorders, or, you know, somebody that works with, you know, teens with OCD, or something like that. And we're always looking at ways to refer to each other. And as I mentioned in the, in the interview, is that I think a lot of us are just getting full, and so we're having to refer out anyway. So, again, not not to harp on that too much. You know, there's so many benefits to just networking and being able to collaborate with other therapists in your in your area. And that is literally how you can grow. Your practice is about doing, doing those kinds of things. So anyway, again, thanks, Dr. mckaela, for being on the podcast. And again, you can find her information. Dr. mckaela, calm, I believe it is Dr. mckaela. Calm, is her website. And then of course, we've got links in the show notes, and shows summary here down below. Thanks again, for listening to the podcast. Be sure and check out our sponsor for the podcast, therapy notes. And you can get to them by going to practice a therapy.com slash therapy notes. And be sure and use the coupon code Gordon, just Glr d o n and you can try them out for two months for free. And also take advantage of the July. The July 4 discount on all of my digital resources. Those are the ones that I can house on the gumroad platform, and also on teachable use the promo code July for 21. And that will get you 15% off any of those things until July 5 2021. So and also be sure and check out my friend Dr. David Hall's free c e course. And you can get to that by going to psych Maven dot teachable calm and you'll be able to find it. Find that course they're so anyway, get one free see and the course is free too. So just want to put that in there as well. So take care folks hope you have a happy and safe Fourth of July weekend. If you're celebrating I know I'm getting together with my family and looking forward to it get to get it a little fun and son on the lake. So that'll that's always always a good time for us. So take care, folks, and we'll I've got some great guests lined up for us. So be sure and tune in next week for the practice of therapy podcast. Take time to subscribe and let your friends know about it as well and leave us a review. So take care folks.

You have been listening to the practice of therapy podcast with Gordon Brewer. Please visit us at practice of therapy.com for more information, resources and tools to help you in starting building and growing your private practice. And if you haven't done so already, please sign up to receive the free private practice startup guide at practice of therapy.com. The information in this podcast is intended to be accurate and authoritative concerning the subject matter covered. It has given with the understanding that neither the host guests or producers are rendering legal accounting or clinical advice. If you Need a professional, you should find the right person for them.