The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer: Well, hello everyone, and welcome again to the podcast. And I'm really glad to have back with me today Natalie Moore.
Natalie was on an earlier episode last year, and we'll have ... I can't remember the number, but I think it was like 334 or something like that. But, uh, anyway, we'll have links in that. But welcome, Natalie, glad you're back.
Natalie Moore: I'm so excited to be back. It's always an honor when someone brings you back on their podcast.
It means you did a good enough job the first time. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: All right. Right. Well, Natalie wears a lot of hats. We were talking about that a little bit before. She's got a, a toddler that she's keeping, keeping wrangled in, and then also she has got a practice. But as I start with everyone, Natalie, tell folks a little more about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed.
Natalie Moore: Oh, it's, it's a winding road. I always knew I wanted to be a therapist ever since I took an AP psychology class in high school. So just, you know, did, I did a bachelor's in psychology, master's in counseling psychology, got all those hours, those 3,000 licensing hours that we love and hate. And at a certain point during my training, I was burned out.
I know this is a very common story, you know- All right ... working these churn and burn agency environments. And I remember thinking to myself, "This is not what I signed up for." I came into the field very bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, excited to help people, excited to do deep soul work that I envisioned it trans- helping to transform people's lives, but also feeling very filled up myself, and that's not what I was experiencing.
And I looked at a couple different options in front of me. I actually considered going back to school for a PhD, and when going back- Mm ... to school for a PhD sounds like the easier route than what you're currently doing- ... you have to take an honest look at your life, right?
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Natalie Moore: There was something about going back to school and being under the auspices of an institution and it being structured and being a student again felt kind of like this safe harbor.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Moore: But then that didn't seem right, 'cause I was like, "Why am I running back to school when I know that that's not actually what I need or what I need to do?" And so I thought about it and I realized, you know what? The one way of gaining clinical hours that I hadn't considered or really thought about was doing it in a private practice setting under supervision.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Moore: I was very intimidated by the idea, 'cause the way that it's set up now, a lot of people when they are associates gaining hours in a private practice setting, they get clients referred to them by their supervisor or by their group practice. Mm-hmm. But back in 2015, or, yeah, I get the numbers confused now, like 10 plus years ago The way it really worked was that associates are expected to fill their own caseloads.
We were expected to find- Mm-hmm ... all of our own clients. I think my supervisor maybe referred me, like, one or two of my first clients just to kind of throw me a bone, right?
And I had to put myself in this position of establishing myself as a professional in the career that I was in while still trying to figure it out myself, right?
Right. I had to position myself as this confident expert who had experience when I was in my early 20s and, you know, texting my friends crying at the end of a session saying- Mm-hmm ... I feel like I'm a complete fraud, right? And so not only did I have to learn the clinical confidence, but I also had to learn how to market myself.
Right. And now there are tons of courses, tons of tools, podcasts such as this one- Mm-hmm ... that support and guide that journey. It's still really hard, so not to minimize that. But 10 years ago there was only one true course on how to build a private practice.
And it cost about $2,000. And this was during a time when I was, you know, running out of gas driving to my mom's house to ask her for gas money.
Mm-hmm. So I certainly didn't have $2,000 to spend on a course. And so I had to take it upon myself and teach myself all this stuff. I had to learn how to build a private practice. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. I had to learn how to help clients find me. And so I was sitting in a laundromat waiting for my clothes to dry, and I remember googling how to find therapy clients.
How to get therapy clients was a Google search that I put in.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Moore: And I just started reading everything I could get my hands on and just devouring content, whether it was a blog article, podcast, a free webinar, right? Click here to download- Mm-hmm ... this free webinar. Whatever it was, I got my hands on it, and I started testing things out.
I started seeing, well, what's working, what's not working. Mm-hmm. And whatever wasn't working, I would give it a, good college try, and then if it wasn't working, retire that option. And what I noticed was that my, primarily the new clients, the new inquiries that were finding me were finding me through my website.
Right. And so I started listening very carefully to ... Therapists are very good at this. We're very good listeners. So whenever a therapist- Mm-hmm ... tells me, "Oh, I'm really struggling with my marketing," well, the first step in marketing is to listen. Listen to what- Mm-hmm ... people are telling you, and as therapists, that's our biggest skill, right?
We're so good at listening. Right. So I started listening for trends. Well, anyone who finds me on my web- first of all, how are people finding me? And if they find me through my website, what are they saying landed? What words do they, what patterns are they repeating? And so a lot of people were saying that they liked how I said I have a holistic approach.
Okay, so I leaned into that, and I focused on that even more on my website. So I didn't just talk about holistic. I talked about mind, body, spirit, integrative, somatic. I started leaning into that- Mm-hmm ... more and more and more, and then more people found me that way. So it was kind of this flywheel effect where it was like the more I found out and the more I did, the more results I got from it.
So I just kept repeating- Right ... repeating, repeating- Mm-hmm ... what was working.
And I was reading highly technical SEO articles while waiting in line at Costco to check out with my groceries. Yeah. And you know how long those lines are, right? Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Right,
Natalie Moore: and I just kept implementing.
And at a certain point other colleagues of mine started asking me, "Natalie, I'm seeing your website showing up everywhere. What are you doing? How are you doing? Did you hire some big SEO agency to do this for you?" Mm-hmm. "No, I've been doing this myself." So I started teaching my colleagues, and at a certain point I realized this is turning into a second job.
This is turning into a curriculum. Right. So I developed a course around it, and individualized coaching, and some done-for-you services, and now it's become a big branch of my business at this point. And it's so- That's awesome ... fun for me because it works a different part of my brain. As a therapist, it's so relational and it's...
You- it requires so much patience and so much soul work, right? Mm-hmm. With coaching, it's kinda nice 'cause I can just be like, "Do this, do that. No. Yes." Kinda just- Yeah ... be strategic and have a plan and implement some of the things that we wish we could do a little more of as, as a therapist. I feel like I get that itch scratched as a
Gordon Brewer: coach,
Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's a... Well, a- and I think one of the things, uh, I wanna point out about that and this doesn't necessarily relate directly to our topic today, but, What you were able to do was kinda give yourself permission to go in a direction that wasn't directly related to all the work you had put into your degree and your training and that kind of thing.
And I think people can limit themselves by saying, "Okay, no, I've gotta do just this because it, um, it's what I put all my work into. That's what I did." But you went off on this branch of, okay, started a, almost a m- an additional business to diversify your income. So kudos to you for that.
I mean, just, I just wanted to point that out as you were talking, so yeah. So-
Natalie Moore: Thank you. Yeah. Well, they say necessity is the mother of invention.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Right. So
Natalie Moore: necessity is the mother of learning- All right ... learning
Gordon Brewer: how to
Natalie Moore: do a new skill. Yeah. And it's interesting that you bring that up, 'cause actually one of the things that comes up so much in my coaching work with therapists is resistance to marketing.
There's this idea of, "Well, I didn't get into this career to market myself," or, "I didn't think I was gonna have to do this," or, "I didn't realize it was gonna be this hard." And we have to work through that because whether you wanted to be a business owner or not, if you're a therapist in private practice you have to wake up and admit to yourself- Mm-hmm
"I'm a business owner. I have-" Right ... "to learn how to run a business." There are a lot of things we do as a therapist that we don't necessarily want to do, like who wants to write progress notes? That's no one's favorite thing. Right. Who wants to do documentation, right?
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Natalie Moore: Building a business, I'm lucky enough that I really enjoy the marketing side of things, but not every therapist does.
Right. And so there's definitely a piece of this work in working through the hesitations, the resistance, the frustration of- Mm-hmm ... okay, if I wanna have my dream practice, there's certain things I... might not be my favorite thing or I might not love it, but there, these are some things I have to do in order to ensure my success.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, and I think it's, um, you know, one of the things that I, I say to people all the time, the, the key to all of this, particularly the marketing side of things, is just to be persistent and consistent with what you do. Mm-hmm. I mean, there's lots of different ways to get at this, but I think that's really key to, for success in the long run.
But so just to, to switch back, um, I know one of the things when we were talking when, uh, we were talking before we started reco- recording, and one of the things that you wanna talk about is something called AIO. And so I want you to tell folks what AIO is and how it relates to SEO, and both of those things, those two, two things that get thrown around when we're talking about marketing.
Natalie Moore: Okay. So one of the things that I really like to start with is to actually reduce fear and reduce overwhelm about these terms. So one thing that-- Let's start with SEO, because in order to explain what AIO is, we have to understand what SEO is. So SEO- Mm-hmm ... is search engine optimization. And when we talk about search engines, we're usually talking about Google, because historically it's held about ninety-five percent of market share.
So it pretty much owns, it owns that, that corner of the internet. So-- And when we say optimization, what we mean is the intentional actions that you take as a practice owner to help Google rank your practice higher for the types of search terms that your ideal clients are typing into Google. So I'm gonna explain that again, because it's a very complex topic, and we're trying to distill it into something really simple.
So search engine optimization. What is a search engine? We're pretty much talking about Google, but there are others like Bing, DuckDuckGo Firefox, et cetera. And when we talk about optimization, we're talking about the intentional actions, not just the accidental, "Oops, I ended up ranking for this thing on accident."
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Moore: The intentional actions. So, finding out what keywords people are using to find you, writing blog posts on topics that you're an expert on, getting featured in the media on topics that you like to speak on and work with in your practice. The actions that you're taking to show Google, not just tell Google, but show Google, "Hey, this is what I do.
This is who I am. These are the people that I help- Mm-hmm ... the types of issues that I help people resolve in my practice." And as a result of those actions, your website ranks higher. But not just ranking higher for something random, ranking higher for the exact types of terms that your ideal clients are trying to...
using to try to find you. Okay. All
Gordon Brewer: right.
Natalie Moore: So now that we've established what SEO is, what is AIO? So AIO stands for artificial intelligence optimization. So one of the things that, that I wanted to dispel fear around is I've been seeing a lot of posts on social media and articles saying things like, "SEO is dead, AIO is the future."
Now what I don't like about these types of articles and clickbait is that for someone who is a therapist in private practice and is just trying to get their feet under them with marketing to begin with-
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm ...
Natalie Moore: they're just trying to learn what SEO is and implement it, right? They might even be investing in courses or SEO agencies to help them.
When they see something like, "SEO is dead, AIO is the future," there's this fear of, "Oh, no, I'm doing it wrong," or, "Oh, no- Mm-hmm ... the thing that I already feel overwhelmed to learn about isn't even the right thing anymore." And it makes them feel like they're failing or they're behind, that they're doing something wrong.
"Wait, all this time I've been spending learning and implementing SEO, are you telling me that I've been wasting my time and wasting my money, and now I need to jump over to this other thing and learn this new thing?" It's very scary, right?
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah.
Natalie Moore: So what I like to do is first, like, stop and take a deep breath.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm. You're
Natalie Moore: not failing. You're not behind. AIO is not replacing SEO. Mm-hmm. It's more like a layer that's being... It's like a layer of complexity that's being added on top. So in the intro I said that SEO is still the cake, that sponge part of the cake. Yeah. And AIO is the icing on top of that cake. Okay?
Okay. It's important- Mm-hmm ... and we need to learn about it, but we need to see it as this thin layer that's being added on top of something. So what do I mean by that? Okay, so AIO is optimizing your website and your website presence to show up in AI searches. So AI searches being ChatGPT AI search within the Google search engine results page.
Mm-hmm. Claude, Perplexity, places like this, okay?
The strategy is not completely different. So many things that you're already doing for your SEO are helping you show up in AI searches. So it's not a throw this technique and this strategy out and start from scratch. It's keep the same strategy that you've already been doing with SEO and just n- we're getting into the nuance here.
We're just refining it a little bit- Mm-hmm ... to help you show up better in AI searches. Mm-hmm. So I'll give you a few examples. So-
Gordon Brewer: Okay ...
Natalie Moore: one thing that is really good for SEO is having individual specialty pages on your website. So for example, a lot of therapists in private practice putting up a website, let's say they decide they're gonna start up a practice and they put up a website over a weekend 'cause they're like, "I just gotta get something out and I can perfect it as I go."
Great. Let's say they have a homepage, about page, contact page, and on their homepage
it says specialties and they've just got a list, anxiety, depression, relationship issues, life transitions, et cetera. Okay. This is a great start, but this is not going to help you rank on Google because now you've just given Google four or five different things that you work with, and it doesn't know who exactly to send you because it doesn't send you anxiety people because you just only said it once on your homepage.
It doesn't send you depression people- Mm-hmm ... again, 'cause you only said it once. But if you had an entire page on your website dedicated to anxiety and the types of anxiety that you treat and how you treat it and how your approach is different, right? Then Google will want to rank you when someone is searching for anxiety therapist in my city- Right
in my area, right? Right.
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Natalie Moore: So those individual specialty pages are one of the most important things you can do for an SEO strategy.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Natalie Moore: Guess what works really well for an AI strategy?
Gordon Brewer: Yes.
Natalie Moore: Having specialty pages because if somebody is typing into ChatGPT, for example, let's say they're typing in anxiety symptoms, "Hey, these are the issues that I'm having.
Here's what it feels like during my day. Here's the thoughts that I'm having. Help me find a therapist who can address these," and it's all anxiety related symptoms. Well, ChatGPT is not gonna wanna pull just a typical therapist homepage. It's gonna wanna pull- A therapist who specializes in anxiety because there are- Mm-hmm
so many options now that in order for ChatGPT to give a really good result, it wants to be specific. It wants to- ... recommend someone who's really gonna know about these issues, not just- Mm-hmm ... a generalized therapist. So that's just one example. I could keep going down this. Let me give at least one more.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Natalie Moore: Having testimonials from your colleagues. I don't say client testimonials because the ethics vary from state to state and profession, from profession to profession on whether you can solicit testimonials from clients or not, so I just leave that out of it. But soliciting testimonials from your colleagues for them to post on places like Google Business Profile- for example, and we can talk a little bit about what Google Business Profile is too for those listeners who don't know. Getting testimonials from your colleagues on Google Business Profile is a great SEO strategy because it helps you show up in local search. When someone types in, "Best anxiety therapist near me," and hits enter on Google, one of the first things that shows up after the ads is the Map Pack.
So Gordon, have you ever noticed if you're just looking for, like, local plumber near me, electrician- Right ... near me, best tacos- Mm-hmm ... near me or something, there tends to be a map with those little red pins.
Gordon Brewer: Yes.
Natalie Moore: That's called the Map Pack. You don't show up there just by having a website. You can only show up there if you have something called a Google Business Profile.
Good news is- Right ... they're free Which is amazing these days. Everything- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm ... everything costs money. So for something- Right ... to be free, one of the best assets for your SEO is a Google business profile, and it's free, so there's no reason- Mm-hmm ... not to have one. Being able to show up there in the map pack, having testimonials, having reviews from your colleagues is a great way of showing up in local search for when someone types in best, because best means they're looking for something high quality.
Reviews are kind of the closest thing we have to that.
And so that's a great SEO strategy. Guess what's a great AIO strategy?
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Uh-huh.
Natalie Moore: Having Google business profile reviews and testimonials helps, again, for those find the best therapist for this issue near me- Mm-hmm ... in a ChatGPT search. So that's only two examples.
I could keep going on and on and on about-
Gordon Brewer: Right ...
Natalie Moore: something that's good for SEO that is also good for AIO, something that's good. So now that I've done that, should I tell a little bit more about what Google business profile is for those who don't know? Or do you feel like I covered that enough already?
Yeah, maybe just
Gordon Brewer: touch on that a little bit. Yeah.
Natalie Moore: Okay. So like I said, that map pack is prime real estate. You wanna be showing up there, and we can actually include it in the show notes. Why don't you make a note, Gordon, to- Yeah, sure ... for me to include the link because they're very easy to get started setting up.
You often will have to verify it by showing your office space and showing that you, truly have a brick-and-mortar location. This can be harder- Mm-hmm ... for therapists who are practicing fully virtually. Sometimes you have to get- Sure ... creative and maybe rent one hour of office space from a friend, you know, who's a therapist and-
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm
Natalie Moore: get your mail there, so and so, to get that office space. But to have a Google business profile is a huge, huge starting point for showing up in local search because of that prime real estate of that map pack. It also helps differentiate you from the big therapy platforms- Yes ... which shall not be named.
Gordon Brewer: Yes.
Natalie Moore: But you know what I mean. Uh-huh. The platforms tend to eat up a lot of space in the ad section, and the big platforms will often show up in that f- first position on Google Search. Mm-hmm. And so the ads can be impossible to ... I mean, we can't, as a solo practitioner, you can't compete with their ad spend even if you do have a Google Ads budget.
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Natalie Moore: You just can't compete with these platforms. And then it's very hard to compete with that first result on Google, that first organic search result. So when I say organic search results on Google, what I'm talking about is when you do a search on Google, you hit enter, what you see is called the search engine results page, and I'm talking about those bright blue underlined links- Right
that you see that big list of. That first- Mm-hmm ... and when I say position, it's what order they're in. That first position is almost always Psychology Today. Almost always.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Natalie Moore: And that is going to be not something that you're trying to compete with. So just like if you're a fighter, you compete within your weight class, right?
You're not gonna- Right ... compete in a different weight class. You just don't. It's the same thing with SEO. We don't fight outside of our weight class. So when we see Psychology Today in p- first position, we say, "Okay, you've got the first position." Yeah. "We're not gonna mess with that. Can I be in the second position?"
Right.
Gordon Brewer: Right?
Natalie Moore: Mm-hmm. If there's a big group practice there that's been in your area for 20 years and you're a solo practitioner just starting up, that's probably not in your weight class either. Can I get into the third position, right?
We're looking at where are the opportunities? Where are the opportunities here?
So Google Business Profile is a great way to kind of work your way around the ads that we can't really compete with and those first position results that we can't really compete with. It's a kind of way of like squeezing yourself in there- Yeah, right ... as a great option. Uh, uh,
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. That makes sense.
Yeah.
Natalie Moore: Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, so I, I would just y- you know, with the different ways in which we get people to our websites, what are the areas that with AIO that maybe differ from SEO?
Natalie Moore: Great question, and I was actually- ... already gonna go there, so I'm really
Gordon Brewer: glad- Okay,
Natalie Moore: good ... you asked 'cause we talked about- Yeah
what was the same. So one of the things that's different is that the way people search into AI is different from the way they search into Google. So if you think about the Google search bar, each search is a new thing, right? If I type in therapist near me Los Angeles, enter, that is one distinct search.
And then let's say I get overwhelmed and close the page, and the next day I type something else. And I say, best therapist for moms Los Angeles, enter. Mm-hmm. Those are two distinct searches on two distinct occasions. They might be similar- Mm-hmm ... but they're two different searches, and I'm usually using a short phrase.
I'm usually using four, you know, two words, four words, maybe five words And I'm leaving out things like in, above, over, out, right? We're kind of leaving out those filler words. Mm-hmm. We're just very specific, right? Mm. That's how people type into Google, and there are very specific search tools that we have because Google has been around for a while now.
Mm-hmm.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Moore: And so, you know, when did Google... I would say it's been around for, like, I wanna say at least 20 years. Yeah. So we have search tools that are very reliable and have been used for a long time to figure out, well, what words are they using? We- Actually, you know what? Anyone who's interested in learning more about keyword research, go back and listen to the episode that we did- Yeah.
Yes,
Gordon Brewer: yes ...
Natalie Moore: about keyword research- Uh-huh ... 'cause we did a deeper dive. Okay, so I won't go too far into keyword research. We'll just give it as a teaser. Sure. If you wanna learn more about that, listen to the other episode. We have very specific tools that we can use to figure out, well, what are people searching to find a therapist like me near them?
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Moore: And that's the foundation of a- of an SEO strategy is keyword research, so definitely listen to that episode. However, the way that people type into ChatGPT and similar AI search engines is different. They're not necessarily speaking in these little staccato sentences. They're giving these internal monologue, "Well, when I was a child, I felt like my parents met my physical needs but not my emotional needs, and I felt like I was always walking on eggshells around my dad, and, you know, I just...
My sister kind of bullied me, but nobody noticed," and da da, you know. Yeah. None of this is, um- Right ... none of this is true information. Uh-huh.
Gordon Brewer: Right, right.
Natalie Moore: And then they say, you know, maybe they're, they're talking into ChatGPT like this for months, and then they say, "You know what? I think I'm ready for therap- for therapy.
Based on everything that I said, find me a therapist near me who you think is a good fit." Okay?
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Natalie Moore: So how do we do keyword research on that, right? When someone's been- Right ... speaking these, you know, internal monologue lines for such- Mm-hmm ... a long time into their-
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm ...
Natalie Moore: chat. I will tell you.
Gordon Brewer: Okay.
Natalie Moore: So it's not as clean and simple as the SEO keyword research was. We have to treat it a little bit more like an art than a science when we're optimizing for AIO. So what we wanna do, and, and actually I think this maybe fits the therapist brain a little bit better anyway, we wanna start thinking about our ideal client and what are some of those things, those thoughts that they have first thing in the morning, those thoughts- Mm
that they have last thing at night as they're trying to fall asleep. What are the things that if their best friend who came into town that they haven't seen in a long time and they're like, "Ah, I feel like I can finally speak some things off my chest that I haven't been able to say in a while," what are some things they say to their best friend?
What are some things they would say into an anonymous forum if they knew that nobody knew who they were, right? Right. What are the things- Right ... that your client finally says maybe several sessions in or even several months in that they had been holding back because they just didn't want you to fully know them yet, right?
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Natalie Moore: You have to start thinking about those things as real opportunities to build trust with a client on your website-
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm ...
Natalie Moore: where they read your specialty page, so page for anxiety, page for postpartum depression, whatever it is- And they're reading through this page, and they have this feeling of, "You have been listening to my thoughts.
You have been reading- Mm-hmm ... my journal. You've been looking at my text messages to the group thread," right? "You've been looking at my- Mm-hmm ... searches." It almost has to be, like, oddly specific, right? Right.
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Natalie Moore: Right. So there was one, like, for postpartum depression or postpartum mental health, it might be something like, you set your baby down in the crib and you're so sleep deprived that they looked at you, and you felt like they looked at you like they hated you, right?
Something that almost- That just- ... like, gives you goosebumps 'cause it's so chilling and so specific, right?
Gordon Brewer: Right. Uh-huh.
Natalie Moore: You have to speak to your client with this level of specificity that, "Wow, you really get me. I haven't even sat down with you for a session yet, and you already get me." And it's not, "I need a therapist."
It's, "I need you as my therapist." Mm-hmm. "I wanna work with you."
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Natalie Moore: And so that is, if we are writing in these internal monologue lines of, "I feel like I haven't gotten a good night's sleep in years. I feel so disconnected from my partner, you know, ever since we had a kid. I worry that people are gonna judge me if I tell them how I really feel or what my real thoughts are," right?
Like these internal- Mm-hmm ... monologue lines that start with I. I feel this. I think that. I feel the weight of the world on my chest when I wake up in the morning, right? Right. Finding opportunities on your website to speak in those internal monologue lines helps AI find you because that mirrors how people type into their chat.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Natalie Moore: People type and speak into their chat in these internal monologue lines. And so if your website mirrors that, you're speaking the same language as AI- Yes ... search, and it's called- Mm-hmm ... being AI pullable. We use the word pullable- Mm-hmm ... because AI kind of does this thing where it pulls information- Yeah
from the internet- Right ... and kind of delivers it to the person who's searching for it.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Natalie Moore: And so having a section of every specialty page dedicated to internal monologue lines or even sprinkling them throughout in a way that makes sense. You know, it has to make sense with the copy, right? You can't just like suddenly- Mm-hmm
just put all these internal monologue lines. You have to be artful with it with your copywriting. Mm-hmm. That's something that I help my coaching clients do is be very intentional- Yeah ... about their copywriting because copy has to serve two functions. It has to be SEO and AIO optimized, but it also has to connect with humans and help them feel seen and make them want to choose you.
Right. So that's one area where AIO is starting to kind of separate from the pack from SEO- Mm-hmm ... having those really great internal monologue lines. Mm-hmm. And one way that you can find those, if you're really struggling, uh, a few places you can look. One is you can look through your inquiries that you've gotten so far.
So for example, when someone reaches out to schedule a 15-minute phone consultation with me, there's a little form they have to fill out on my contact page, and there's a little section that's optional where they can put a sentence or two about what's bringing them into therapy. And that can be really, really helpful information for you to know becau- for not just for clinically going into that appointment, that phone call, but also for your future marketing because it t- it captures a moment- of awareness.
We don't wanna try to attract clients who are so early in their awareness that they don't even realize that they want or need therapy, 'cause those are not people who are ready yet. Mm-hmm. And then we're not trying to speak to people who are, like, so deep into the process that they're, like, already at the end and don't need therapy anymore.
Mm-hmm. Right. We wanna find people who are in this very specific window of awareness of, "I have just enough awareness that I'm suffering, and I can't white-knuckle this and do it alone anymore. I need help, and the type of help I need is therapy."
"
Natalie Moore: And I want therapy, and I want it now." Mm-hmm. This is a very unique window of opportunity.
There's some, uh... Gottman Institute says people wait six years too long before getting couples therapy. Right. I don't know what the stats are for individual. But so people are thinking about it for a really long time.
Gordon Brewer: Right. Uh-huh.
Natalie Moore: But we have to capture people- Mm ... in a very specific phase of awareness and pain where it's just bad enough that they know that they need help, and they've been trying to deal with it for themselves for so long and realize that they can't anymore.
And so the language that they use when they're reaching out for you and reaching out for help from you gives us such valuable information about, how do I help other people in this exact phase? Right. I need to know what words and phrases they're using to describe what they're going through and how they're struggling so that I can actually speak to more people who I can potentially help.
Does that make sense- Right ... the way I'm describing
Gordon Brewer: the goal? Yeah, it does, and so I... Yeah, no, I would imagine that you could get AI assistance with all of this which makes it, even more fascinating as far as being able to go in and, and, um, describe your ideal client and put in, you know, what the things they're struggling with and create some blog ideas based on, on this or, you know, even write a blog article that you can edit and all of that kind of thing.
Natalie Moore: And let me tell you what, from what you said, what we wanna do as humans and then what we want AI to do because-
...
Natalie Moore: We can work together harmoniously, and what we wanna do- Yeah ... is we don't wanna replace what we're really good at- Mm-hmm ... for so many different reasons, but I don't need to get into. We don't wanna replace the human part that we're really good at.
And we don't wanna ask, we don't wanna ask AI to do something that it can't do, which is be human and fully understand the human experience. Right, right. It can't do that. But what we can ask it to do is analyze a ton of data and look for patterns.
We can ask it to take something that's overwhelming for the human mind to try to read all of and say, "Hey, can you summarize this for me?"
Right. "Can you find the main talking points? Of all these questions and queries, can you find the ones that are most relevant to someone who's seeking therapy versus someone who's seeking information on something?" Right?
Gordon Brewer: Right, right.
Natalie Moore: And so that's what it's really good at, right? And it doesn't replace the blog writing, but I can take my phone with me while I'm pushing my son in his little red car, and I can say, "Hey, I just had an idea for a blog post.
Help me transcribe it while I walk and push my son to the park." It can help me transcribe and edit it in real time. Wow. You know, give, give me the paragraphs and let me approve them as we go, and then at the end give me a draft so I can send it to my VA and she can get it published next, my virtual assistant, she can get it published next week, right?
Gordon Brewer: Right, right.
Natalie Moore: So w- we use AI, the way I use it, as an extraction tool. I have the wisdom, not only from human experience, but from being a therapist, of the personal and the professional. I use it as a tool to extract that wisdom, organize it, make it digestible in a way that my ideal client can find it, feel heard, and want to reach out.
Right. So we're not using AI as a replacement. It's not write my blog post for me. No, it's gonna be a terrible blog post, and it's not gonna fool anybody.
Gordon Brewer: Right, right.
Natalie Moore: But if you say, "Hey, help me extract this information that I already have on this topic."
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm. "
Natalie Moore: Help me organize it in an order that makes sense," it's really good at that.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, and I, I'm amazed how much I use, am using ChatGPT for so many things. Not o- not only, um, business stuff, but just in my personal life. I mean, as far as, you know, okay, give me five restaurant ideas for this type of food, you know, kinda thing or whatever, and it's just a pretty, it's just so- I think more user-friendly than just traditional search
Natalie Moore: Yeah.
It actually skips a lot of steps. So what you have to think about is that we are all overstimulated, right? Mm-hmm. I don't know anybody who's- ... unless you're living in a meditation retreat- Uh-huh ... right, like, we're all overstimulated. There's too much information flying at us at all times, and so what we need help with is distilling things.
Help me-
...
Natalie Moore: Help me cut out all the filler and- Mm-hmm ... just get to the thing that I want. Just give me the best options. I don't need... Don't give me every type of Indian food in Los Angeles.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Moore: Right. Give me the five best ones, and then I'll decide based on what's close, what's open, you know-
Gordon Brewer: Right,
Natalie Moore: right
what I like. And so we need to be really good at helping AI do its job. Its job is- Mm-hmm ... to cut out the n- noise and give the best result, so we have to do our job of showing AI exactly who we are, who we help, what we help them with, so that they know that we're the best choice for particular clients, not every client.
So one thing that AI is actually very good at is looking at nuance when making suggestions, and that works to our favor. And I'm gonna give you a really- Mm-hmm ... I'm gonna give you an example that's relevant to me, because I'm working with a coaching client who has an intersection of different specialties.
She works with neurodivergents, but she also helps families in different ways. Like, she can work kids, teens, the adults, individuals, the couples, like, all different combos. She works with people who are adopting or post-adoption. She works with trauma, very trauma-informed, trauma-focused. And so interestingly enough, you might think, wow, this is a tough practice to market, because do you go the trauma way?
Mm-hmm. Do you go the neurodivergent way? Do you go-
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm ...
Natalie Moore: the kids and teens way? Do you go the adults and couples way? It seems like it's all over the place. But they actually all map so well to each other, 'cause a lot of- Mm-hmm ... neurodivergent individuals- experienced trauma.
A lot of people who have experienced adoption on either side have also experienced some type of trauma or loss.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Natalie Moore: Right. Some people are neurodivergent and adopted and trauma history, right? There's, there's a lot of layers. And so- Mm-hmm ... a typical SEO strategy could actually miss the nuance there and make it very hard for people to find this person because- Uh-huh ... when they're thinking about their own psychological needs and their own family, they're like, "Well, what do I spe- what do I type in?
Do I try to find a trauma therapist? Do I find a therapist who's a specialist on adoption? Do I find a neurodivergent-affirming therapist? I don't know. Do I find a couples therapist?" Right? They're confused because their family has so many unique needs that are layered- Mm-hmm ... on top of each other, and they don't know which specialist to find.
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Natalie Moore: But if this person goes to ChatGPT or something similar and says, "Hey, I need a therapist who kind of gets all this stuff," and lists it out, well, who do you think is gonna show up at the top of the list?
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Natalie Moore: My, my coaching client, because she's doing such a good job nailing down her messaging and being very clear on her messaging on all these different specialty pages and having them all linked to each other in ways- Mm-hmm
that shows Google and shows ChatGPT, hey, all these things are interconnected.
Gordon Brewer: Wow.
Natalie Moore: Yeah. Isn't that a, isn't that
Gordon Brewer: a interesting use case? Yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it really is. I mean, it's just kind of, um, being able to h- help- Connect the dots with all the technology and the, you know, the magic of the internet or whatever.
Yeah, it's kinda mind-blowing, and it feels, kinda overwhelming. But I think if people break it down into small pieces and just do a little bit at a time, that's where they're gonna make the impact as far as and start seeing the results with all of this.
Natalie Moore: Exactly. And one of the things- Yeah
that I've been helping this particular client do is find the through line of who she works with, and one of the things we figured out is she works with people who don't really fit into a box. They don't fit into a label. They don't fit into a- Mm-hmm ... traditional maybe... Oh, she also works with multicultural families, too, and so people who just don't- Mm-hmm
quite fit the mold or quite fit the- Right ... dominant narrative, and so we've been working that in, too. Yeah. And so she might also attract other people into her practice who don't necessarily fit that particular specialty but who she might wanna work with, LGBTQ- Mm-hmm ... individuals, artists, creatives, people who think outside the box, right?
And so what's beautiful is that if you're very clear in your messaging, a lot of therapists actually are afraid of this. They're afraid that if they niche too much that they're gonna exclude people that they would wanna work with.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Natalie Moore: But sometimes if you speak really clearly to one particular individual and you do it well, there are other people who don't necessarily fit that who still really wanna work with you.
I'll give you an example- Yeah ... of that. I have, on my website I very clearly work with women-identified individuals, women and moms. Doesn't mean that I don't work with men or non-binary individuals. It just means that I really promote to women on my practice, and all the photos- Uh-huh ... are of women. I've, very feminine themes.
I got pink all over the place. Mm-hmm. Men still reach out to me, and there was a- Mm-hmm ... a man who was, like, a executive, maybe in his 50s, who said there was one thing on my website that really spoke to him was something that said- Everything looks fine on the outside, but you don't feel great on the inside.
And that was what made this person wanna reach out to me. Sure.
Gordon Brewer: Sure.
Natalie Moore: So you never know what it is on your website that- Mm-hmm ... is gonna connect, but something could really connect, and you might attract somebody outside of that niche into your- Yeah ... practice. Right. So that's just such a common fear, I thought- Yeah
I'd take an opportunity to talk.
Gordon Brewer: Right, right. And a- another example I like to give is one of my, one of my good friends is a cardiologist. But, you know, if I have a medical question about something whenever I see Keith, you know, I say, "Hey, I've got a question for you." And he, it might not be cardiac related, but he's got experience in the medical field, and he can, he can address those issues.
And so same concept really. Yeah, so. Yeah,
Natalie Moore: same concept.
Gordon Brewer: Well, Natalie, I know, um, we could spend just all kinds of time talking about all these things. But tell folks how they can get in touch with you and find out more about all of this that you've got available to people.
Natalie Moore: Yes, I'd love to. So one thing that I have coming up soon, August 15th, is an all-day SEO intensive.
So this is where I teach therapists the step-by-step strategy to implement SEO into their website. So you could have the most beautiful website in the world, but if you don't have an SEO strategy to go along with it, it's like having a billboard in the middle of the woods. Right. You need a strategy in order...
I think we've made that clear from our episodes today. Yeah, right,
Gordon Brewer: right.
Natalie Moore: Yeah. You need a search strategy in order to help people find you. So when I say SEO, I really mean SEO plus AIO because they really layer on top of each other. All
Gordon Brewer: right.
Natalie Moore: So I've got this one coming up in August. We can include the link for that in the show notes as well.
Yes. Uh-huh. If that's not the right fit, I also offer one-to-one coaching with therapists, which can be more tailored to their practices and their- Mm-hmm ... unique needs, individual practices as well as group practices. And then lastly, I also offer some done for you services for therapists who say, "You know what?
After listening to these episodes, it's just too much for me. It's too technical." Yeah. "I just wanna hand it off to you and have you do it for me."
Gordon Brewer: Right, right. And there's no- Just be done
Natalie Moore: for
Gordon Brewer: you ... no shame in that whatsoever.
Natalie Moore: Hey, focus on the clinical work and let somebody es- else handle the marketing. R-
Gordon Brewer: right.
Natalie Moore: So
Gordon Brewer: we- Well, that's great ...
Natalie Moore: we do that too. Yeah. And if anyone wants to find me, it's yourspaceforgrowth.com.
Gordon Brewer: Yes. And again, like Natalie said, we'll have all these in the show notes, in the show summary for people to find out more. And so Natalie, thanks. This has been fascinating, and I, I really appreciate all that you're doing to help people with all these things.
Natalie Moore: Amazing, Gordon. Thanks so much for having me.