Gordon Brewer: Well, hello everyone, and welcome again to the podcast. And I'm really glad for you to get to know today Bianca Hughes. Welcome, Bianca.
Bianca Hughes: Thank you so much for having me, Gordon.
Gordon Brewer: Uh, y- yes, I'm looking forward to our conversation. And so, uh, Bianca, as I start with everyone, tell folks a little more about yourself and how you've landed- Mm-hmm
where you've landed.
Bianca Hughes: Yeah. As I was kinda ... I was briefly saying to you, I'm born and raised in London.
Gordon Brewer: Mm.
Bianca Hughes: To Caribbean parents. Um, and I ... This being a therapist is my second career, and I like to say that I didn't realize I was gonna be building a private practice. I started with what I wanted. As having a career in travel for 10 years, I knew I didn't wanna be by behind a, a desk, and I always said, "I wanna work three days a week seeing clients and do other stuff."
And just morphed into, 'cause I was in, um, a, um, hospital, and it's morphed into a private practice. Mm-hmm. And so I see clients who are high achievers, a lot of high achievers who are trapped by perfectionism, and helping them be their authentic selves. I also do speaking for corporations, events, and conferences, and then I have a community, a online community for therapists, helping them build thriving careers, because- Mm-hmm
there are so many things we're not told in grad programs. Mm-hmm. And I really like to support people to do that, and so that we're not burned out as therapists. Right.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, so that's an interesting niche that you've gotten into, working with, uh, overwhelmed professionals. You bet. So how did you land on that?
Bianca Hughes: I looked in the mirror, Gordon.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Bianca Hughes: I am. I, I done a lot of my own personal work working through the perfectionism. Still crops up, you know, every now and again. Every- still crops up, but being able to recognize it and, and be my authentic self has helped me in so many ways professionally and personally.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. That's a, that's always an interesting question, I think, uh, is, uh, h- being yourself or being your authentic self. And so yeah, I guess one, one question that comes up for me is just what exactly is that for people? Yeah. Would you say being your authentic self?
Bianca Hughes: I feel like it's something that has, that answer has evolved over the years, and in this season, I like to say it's about alignment, alignment to our truth, alignment to how we are wired as people, what truly lights us up versus what drains us, and really breaking through what we've been told we should do or how we should be, and really seeking and taking the time to learn what is true for me.
And listening to our, to our gut, right? Mm-hmm. Instead of ignoring, and I think, you know, living up to the expectations of ourselves rather than others.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, it's, uh, uh, you know, I've struggled with those things too over the years, and just really, and, you know, and this, uh, as you put it, in this season in my life, it's just, um, really gotten to a place where, okay, I need to take care of me- Mm-hmm
and, uh, be, be true to myself and that sort of thing. Mm-hmm. And I think that's-
Bianca Hughes: Yeah ...
Gordon Brewer: that's so important for anyone regardless of their career. Yeah.
Bianca Hughes: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think also it could be hard. I mean, sometimes I say it to make easy, but 'cause some people could be like, "Oh, that's selfish," or whatever, and I'm like, "Well, once you're in alignment and you're your authentic self, everyone else benefits."
And you also- Right ... inspire other people to be authentic too.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Mm. That's very true. Very true. So, uh, you started out in, um, in your therapy career working in a hospital. Is that, did I get that correct?
Bianca Hughes: Yeah, so I started out in a hospital, and I was also doing private practice. Actually, I've been doing private practice since, um, internship 'cause my- Mm
grad program had their own counseling center, and we had to- Right ... do one e- one evening a week. Um, and then I was also interning at a hospital, and then I just, once I graduated, I continued that. But the majority of my hours, I was getting done in a hospital. I did a lot more P- Right ... I did more PRN work- Yes
so that I could still do private practice at the same
Gordon Brewer: time. Right. Yeah. So when you, um, started your private practice, what did you learn? Mm.
Bianca Hughes: I think I learned very early on as an APC that-
Being in private practice, you're also a business owner, and so that means you have to change your mindset
...
Bianca Hughes: That you're going to be wearing two different sets of hats. You're gonna be sitting with people, and then you're gonna have to be marketing and branding and niching down and, and things like that.
And so it's really shifting the mindset. It wasn't so much about, oh, all the other stuff. Yeah, you gotta get a business name, a EIN number, and all of that stuff. That's great.
But if you don't shift the mindset, that's gonna make a difference. So I shifted my mindset very early on when I was an APC so that by the time I got my full license and can, own my business, it was just a name change for me.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Bianca Hughes: So that was- Mm-hmm ... that was one of my biggest lessons, the mindset.
Gordon Brewer: And so if we were to dig into that a little bit more-
Bianca Hughes: Mm-hmm ...
Gordon Brewer: with the mi- with the mindset where do you see people struggle the most with that?
Bianca Hughes: First of all, when you become a therapist, it costs you money Even if you don't own a private practice, it costs us money.
Our continuing education, our license. To just constantly be a therapist, it costs you money. I don't think anyone tells us that it will cost you money for the rest of your life to be- Right ... a therapist. And then I think that there is a lot of low pay, and so that is a big conflict in that sense.
Mm-hmm. And so, recognizing... So that's one thing. And so then- Mm ... recognizing in order to be a successful business owner, I've gotta begin to focus on return on investment. Mm. Where am I gonna put my money into, whether it's a coaching course, marketing, to get my clientele, clientele so that I can get that money back.
Mm-hmm. So I had to shift at things, my mindset, like not that I was spending money, but that I was investing my money. Mm. Mm-hmm. And let's not even talk about all the money stuff that comes up, money shame, and being therapists- Right ... and how much do we charge, and like you have to work Mm-hmm ... work on so many different things, right?
Right. And then we're being told, "Don't expect to earn money," and then there's a conversation, "You shouldn't charge this much." It's a lot of things you have to work through in order- Mm-hmm ... to thrive and be successful that I don't think we consider.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. And I think one, one of the big mindset shifts that people have to really come to terms with is, and I, and I think hopefully graduate schools are getting a little better with this, but this kinda, this whole idea that in order to help people, you don't charge a lot- Yeah
or you don't, um, if you're... Or even, even to an extreme, if you don't charge for your services, then, I mean, if you're charging for your services, you're not helping them kinda thing. And so-
Bianca Hughes: Yeah ...
Gordon Brewer: yeah. And so I think that is a huge mindset set shift that we have to go through in just thinking about, like you said, ROI, thinking about the financial side of running a practice and doing it in such a way that it's profitable and sustainable.
Bianca Hughes: Yeah. And I think also the mindset shift, I, I 100% agree, and I don't know if they're changing their minds, but I hope so. But I do a lot with my old graduate program, so I'm just telling them everything upfront before they graduate. Mm-hmm. So graduate. But I think also asking ourselves- Is private practice for us and what type of practice, private practice do we want to be in?
Mm-hmm. So am I a person who wants to go out and basically kill for the food- Mm-hmm ... every day? And if you're not-
Gordon Brewer: Right,
Bianca Hughes: right ... then you need to be in a private practice where they do everything for you. You can still be in there- Mm-hmm ... but if you've gotta go kill your food every day or, you know, so often, are you that kinda person?
Do you have that- Mm-hmm ... personality? Can you deal with the ups and the downs, or are you, like, wanting more structure? I think those- Mm ... are the questions as well. So then maybe a group practice is better for you, and they do everything, and you don't do any marketing. I think as well, I agree also at the grad level is- Not just, oh, you can be in private practice, but what kind of personality do you have to be in the different types of private practice as well?
Gordon Brewer: Right. And I, I think a lot of it has to do with our money mindset, not only what we're trained, but also what we grew up with, and, you know- Yeah ... kind of the scarcity mentality and that sort of thing-
Bianca Hughes: Yeah ...
Gordon Brewer: plays into it as well.
Bianca Hughes: Yeah, 100%. Oh my gosh. There is- Yeah ... so much lack in our fi- I mean, think lack in general, and I, and I'm gonna say working through my own stuff and money stuff to the point that if anyone, you know, or your audience is listening, like, it's been like a layers upon layers, and one of the layers I'm currently working through is, like, the nervous system around money.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Bianca Hughes: Right?
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Bianca Hughes: And so, yeah, once you... And it's interesting sometimes when I see the conversations in our field, who has the lack and who has the abundance, and it's-
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm ...
Bianca Hughes: the mindset. It's very evident when it comes to this how much shall we charge conversation. It's like, oh-
Gordon Brewer: Right ... here we
Bianca Hughes: go.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Bianca Hughes: Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Well, when you, when, you know, one of the things that I think, um, like you alluded to just with imposter syndrome and that sort of thing, I think a lot of times we, especially newer therapists that I've worked with and, you know, see, either supervise or just have done consulting with, that kind of thing is to recognize what you know and the value of that, and being able to, um, think about it in terms of, okay, you've spent all this time and money in graduate school, uh, to help people, and so you should charge for that, and I think a lot of people maybe get stuck at that point a little bit.
Mm-hmm.
Bianca Hughes: Yeah. Yeah, and it really is that mindset shift, and I'm glad that you brought that up, is looking also at it as return on investment and the value that you're bringing, right? The way I see it is like this is not, this is a lifetime of change. This is a generational change with the work that we're doing.
We're not just, you're not just changing one person. When you change one person, it's going to impact every s- every single person they encounter. Right. And so it's changing their life, it's changing their family lives, it's changing the generational lives. I think it also goes back to something that I'm doing lately, and that's respecting my license.
One thing I'm like, I was like, I don't feel like we respect our license enough. I feel like- Mm-hmm ... we just give it- Right ... away and don't respect it, even down to myself. Mm-hmm. I'm like, no, I need to respect this license. And the work you said, the money the studying, everything we've done, and the continued money- Right
and what we have to do not just to get it- But to maintain it- ... I think we can have some more respect, and I'm respecting my license more. Right,
Gordon Brewer: right.
Bianca Hughes: Um, and I hope that spreads out with everybody else.
Gordon Brewer: So what were the big a-ha moments for you as you built your practice and get to where you are today?
Bianca Hughes: Ooh, that's a great question, Carlton. My big aha... Okay, the first one, I always like to do the first things that pop in my head, 'cause there's probably so many. Help. Asking for help, right? And building a community and having a community. So help looks in different ways, whether you're paying for it for a coaching course- Mm-hmm
um, whether it's my other colleagues. Right now I have an online business manager. I still have all my colleagues. You know, I, I believe in community. I always say there is no way I would be the therapist I am if I didn't have my supervisors, my mentors, my community, my help. Mm-hmm. There's just no way we can do this alone.
And so, help, like being okay with asking for help, receiving the help, and implementing the help- Right ... um, has been my biggest aha moment. Um, that when it comes to marketing, um, I'm a marketing, a networking whiz now, and I never used to be. Mm-hmm. But learning how to actually have a, a workshop that I do on this, a free workshop, is just learning how to network in a way that's aligned to me, going back to that authenticity, rather than feeling like I have to put on a show.
Mm-hmm. And when it comes to marketing, we're so bad at it because we weren't taught, and that's okay to everybody. But actually learning to break down, like it feels... Sometimes I feel like I'm cheating myself, but it's like we spend all this money on this education, and we literally have to take it and break it down- into layman's terms and simplify it. And so learn to simplify what we do for the everyday person so that when they're coming to our website, they're on... They- we're speaking to where they are versus what we know, and I think that's a skill- Right ... a skill that we have to learn. Yeah. Right. And even in our everyday conversations, breaking it down.
And you're like, "But it seems so basic," but it's like-
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm ...
Bianca Hughes: our years of experience-
Gordon Brewer: Yes ...
Bianca Hughes: given in a simplified version. And I think, I think, I feel like that's an art to do that.
Gordon Brewer: Yes. Yes. I would agree, and I think it's, um... You know, I think, uh, a lot of times we take our knowledge of things of hu- just the human experience, I think, with our training, but just also I think therapists in general just have a helping heart, so to speak, and-
Bianca Hughes: Yeah
Gordon Brewer: we, we really do wanna help people, and we want to see them grow and thrive.
Bianca Hughes: Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: And I think it's, um- Yeah, it's just being able to embrace that, but at the same time being able to say, "Okay, I've got to charge for my services. I need to make a living." Because if you're not doing that, then people can't get your services.
Bianca Hughes: Mm-hmm,
Gordon Brewer: mm-hmm. And so it's just kind of that double-edged sword- Yeah ... so to speak.
Bianca Hughes: Yeah, yeah. And it's scary, right, when we start charging at the beginning. And I think I, I'm seeing a lot of conversations now, I don't see if you're seeing it, um, where people are not getting as many clients as they used to in, in- Mm-hmm
private practice, and they're feeling scarce. And so, having to work through that and learn that skill of building up your practice-
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm ...
Bianca Hughes: um, is I think is the thing. It's like it's not... I mean, there's days, like, don't get me wrong, that I'm like, "Oh my God, I just think I'm just gonna go get a regular job."
Mm-hmm, sure. And then, and then I leave at, like, 2:00 PM on a Wednesday, and I'm like, "Uh, yeah, maybe not."
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Bianca Hughes: Or like, I'm off today on a Friday, I'm like, "Yeah, maybe not." But, um, and having, but having the support to do that. But I'm, I'm- Yeah ... seeing a lot of therapists struggling, and I just wanna say that with community and, and really figuring out what is best for you and your setup, I think that we can- Mm-hmm
all thrive. But we've gotta get out of this narrative that we can't charge or... it's like that's, that's the business mindset, right? Apple-
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Bianca Hughes: I always like to give the story of I'm an Apple girl. I like Apple products. Mm-hmm. And my business is like an Apple. It's not a Microsoft over here. If you wanna do Microsoft, you go to Microsoft.
But you want an Apple service, you're gonna come to me. And I visualize myself as Apple, and Apple does not discount. It's the only people I've ever seen them discount for is people who are students. They don't do discounts. Right. Mm-hmm. And so if Apple c- and everyone still buys from them because they need this service.
Mm-hmm. And I feel like we're made to feel guilty for doing that, and I just, I don't agree.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. I would agree at your disagreement. So I mean- Yeah, yeah. So yeah, that's a-
Bianca Hughes: Yeah ...
Gordon Brewer: yeah, and I think it's, um, again, it's that whole imposter syndrome thing of just not recognizing our own worth and not being able to, um, Feel like we're, somehow or another we're unworthy of being able to, uh-
Bianca Hughes: Mm
Gordon Brewer: collect what we need to collect- Mm ... in order to be profitable and successful.
Bianca Hughes: Would you say that, you brought up that word twice, but would you say imposter syndrome, would you say that's been a big thing for you working through the imposter syndrome to be successful in your practice?
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, I think it, I think it has.
And, and in my experience with talking with hun- literally hundreds of people in the podcast here over the years, that's a st- that's a pretty universal struggle. Um-
Bianca Hughes: Yeah ...
Gordon Brewer: because, uh, yeah, I don't wanna get too much on a soapbox, but I think our academic system does people a disservice in that they kind of give this idea that until you get your experience or until you've paid your dues, so to speak, then you're, then you don't, you don't deserve to have-
Bianca Hughes: Mm-hmm
Gordon Brewer: you know, the full benefit of what you do.
Bianca Hughes: Mm-hmm.
Gordon Brewer: Or, yeah.
Bianca Hughes: Mm-hmm.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm. And so I think that's, um, that's something that I hopefully we can-
Bianca Hughes: Mm-hmm ...
Gordon Brewer: kind of continue to help people change. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But I mean, you know, you know, and, and I work with a lot of new therapists doing supervision, and that's one of the things I, I re- remind them is that, that you know a lot.
You know a lot. And so, you know, embrace that and be, be willing to put yourself out there in that, in that sense. But
Bianca Hughes: yeah. Yeah. I agree. I actually just did a, um, which I'll be doing again later this year, but I just did a, a continuing education on imposter syndrome. Mm-hmm. And it's so funny, like I'm a person, I know all the stuff, and then I go get the research to back it up.
So then by the time- Mm-hmm ... I read the research, I was fascinated 'cause I was like, "I knew it." Mm-hmm. Yeah. But one of- Right ... one of the things that it said in the research, Gordon, was that it's the com- it's the education and these companies that ... So first of all, imposter syndrome is just gonna happen, right?
So once you're- Mm-hmm ... in like a master's level, once you get to master's level, forget PhD, and that is also very common amongst healthcare professionals. So that was the first thing. Mm-hmm. Like, we're just gonna experience it. But something it said was that how important it is for education supervisors, so I'm gl- so glad you said that, and companies- Mm
to really have these discussions about imposter syndrome and normalize it and really help, help clinicians work through it because it's going to happen regardless.
Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm. I remember in grad school when we were starting to do our practicums and internships and that kind of thing, and so it was our opportunity to actually go in and do therapy with people, and of course, most everybody in the class was just terrified of that.
Yeah. And just, yeah. And, and I remember our professor at the time Cliff Mitchell, just, um, you know, basically saying, full circle back to being authentic and being yourself, um, he said basically, "Go in there and listen intently, Be yourself and, um, just be nice to the people.
And that was ba- his basic advice there, and then, yeah, and then, and all the other stuff fell into place after that- Mm-hmm ... as far as that goes. Yeah.
Bianca Hughes: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. I, yeah, I can see that. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, so well, um, Bianca, I know we have to be mindful of our time and, a- and your time and everything, but, uh, tell folks a little bit more about your different endeavors with your practice- Yeah
and your consulting and all that sort of thing that you're doing.
Bianca Hughes: Yeah, so, um, anyone, um, in Georgia, um, or wanna do referrals, um, Authentically BU is my counseling, is my practice, authenticallybu.com. Mm-hmm. They can find me there. Um, and then for speaking, you can use the same website if you need me to speak, and then the Soulful Clinician Collective- Mm-hmm
um, I'm sure I can share the info with you- Sure ... is my online community, um- Mm-hmm ... where we have, like, live office hour sessions. Um, we have different education and resources in the community where we're supporting one another and really starting from kind of, like, even dealing with some of that imposter syndrome, right?
And marketing- Mm-hmm ... and, and burnout and making money, but really, I believe it starts with our level of confidence. Yeah. And then once we're working on ourselves, building out the confidence and, like you said, homing in on what we're good at, then we're able to thrive. Mm-hmm. And that's a big thing that I help people and support people in the community in their superpowers.
And so, and then, yeah, and then I'm doing more continuing educations where you can find more stuff about that on my websites.
Gordon Brewer: Sure, and we'll have links in the show notes, in the show summary for people to find that easily. You know what, one thought I had, Bianca y- you know, as you were saying all of that is that we can tend to, G- let ourselves get caught up in too much of our, uh, negative messages about ourself.
Bianca Hughes: Mm-hmm.
Gordon Brewer: And, you know, that's stuff we work with clients on-
...
Gordon Brewer: A lot. And so I think it's I think that's something to pay attention to and be mindful of-
Bianca Hughes: Mm-hmm ...
Gordon Brewer: you know, in just our own clinical work and what we do.
Bianca Hughes: Yeah, I agree. One thing I, one hill I will die on is that it's so key for us to do our own work.
That is- Oh,
Gordon Brewer: yes, absolutely ...
Bianca Hughes: that is so key. There's just-
Gordon Brewer: Absolutely ...
Bianca Hughes: just in general, and there's just no way ... And then when you own a business, I always say this to business owners, if you own a business, your stuff will come up. Mm-hmm. There's just- Oh, yeah ... it's gonna come up in your business. Right. And so it's so key to do your own work.
And in it, I think that's the other a-ha maybe that's really helped me thrive, is that I'm willing to do the work and, and- Right ... and work through the stuff that get in the way of me being successful or being me or being a great clinician. Sure. So I always say a great clinician doesn't know everything, but they're willing to do the work.
Gordon Brewer: Bianca, it's been great having this conversation. Thank you. Uh, any parting thoughts for people as we close things out- No ... for this episode?
Bianca Hughes: No, this has been a great conversation, Gordon. I'm glad we've had this. This is the things that are burning on my heart after being in the field- Yes
for, like, 11 years. You're like- Wow ... I'm ready.
Gordon Brewer: Yes. Well, thank you for the work that you're doing with all of this and- Thank you ... supporting those of us that are clinicians and, and that sort of thing. And again, we'll have links in the show notes, in the show summary for people to get to Bianca easily.
So-
Bianca Hughes: Thank you, Gordon ...
Gordon Brewer: thanks again. Well, take care.