In this episode, Stacey speaks about using self-disclosure in the therapy room. Yes, even therapists can be a “hot mess.” We aren’t perfect or completely put together; self-disclosure can be a critical tool for gaining your clients’ trust. Plus, Stacey talks about the struggles of finding a Black female therapist and why therapists need therapy too. Tune in as we chat about the importance of mastermind groups, different therapy modalities, and why it’s okay to be a hot mess.
Meet Stacey Lanier
Stacey specializes in treating women and helping professionals who are overwhelmed, worried, and who may have overlooked their own self-care and well-being. She is passionate about fostering a safe environment that helps therapists process their own grief and unresolved traumas to help fully realize their strengths and adjust certain behaviors and thoughts to see things in a different, healthier way.
Clients share highly emotional stories of anger, depression, trauma, and grief and if you are not routinely practicing self-care, you may begin to internalize some of the stories you hear. You may be feeling like you’re burned out, but you could also be struggling with compassion fatigue or secondary trauma.
In a comfortable and supportive atmosphere, Stacey offers a highly personalized, trauma-focused approach, tailored to each of her clients’ individual needs to help attain the personal growth and healing they seek.
Should A Therapist Use Self-Disclosure?
Stacey found that it was necessary to share more about herself in the therapy room to build that rapport with her clients. For instance, Stacey shared a little about how her marriage was a hot mess. The client asked Stacey if she was a therapist back then. Many clients don’t realize that just because someone is a therapist doesn’t mean their lives are perfect and completely put together. Plus, we’re a global society, and everyone’s on social media. If we’re not sharing about ourselves on social media, sharing our lives, sharing mental health tips, and mental health information, can we really be trusted through our client’s eyes if we don’t have that type of presence?
Therapists Are People Too
Therapists should speak to their humanity and to their imperfections as a human. As a therapist, you don’t want to be seen as the person who has all the answers. Yes, you may have mastery or expertise in a particular area, but that doesn’t make you a master at being a human. We all have many flaws, so it’s essential to share that part of yourself with your clients. Plus, you can share your weaknesses on social media to help humanize yourself to the general public. When people see that therapists aren’t intimidating, they will be more likely to reach out for help.
Finding The Right Therapist As A Black Woman
Stacey needed a therapist about ten years ago; she couldn’t find a Black female counselor in private practice. Stacey ended up finding a counselor, but there were barriers to perspectives and understanding of the African American lived experience, which caused her and her ex-husband to drop out of therapy. Eventually, Stacey became a Black woman in private practice to serve other therapists because that was what she needed back then. Sadly, it was impossible to find a Black female therapist in Nashville, Tennessee, at that time.
Why Therapists Need Therapy Too
Therapists have the same struggles as their clients. We think that we chose therapy; well, most of the time, therapy chooses us. Many therapists have experienced childhood trauma and complicated relationships. Many of the therapists that Stacey works with have unresolved trauma. Stacey will do EMDR and brainspotting, which they seem to love as a modality. Many therapists don’t use these modalities, so Stacey hopes that they seek out and do their research around those modalities to help their own clients. Overall, if you’re a therapist, find a good therapist to talk to for yourself!
It’s Okay To Be A Hot Mess
It’s okay if your life is a hot mess as a therapist. You may be going through grief, loss, or divorce. Plus, parenting can be a challenging job. Therapists should be okay with their lives being a hot mess. It will be helpful as you grow and progress with your clients. Remember, self-disclosure can be a powerful tool in the therapy room. So, don’t be afraid to share something about yourself with your clients. All in all, life can be a series of hot messes; we can heal, and we will heal. Remember, there is always joy on the other side of a hot mess.
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Hi, I'm Stacy and I'm so happy to be here with Gordon on practice of therapy podcast.
Well, hello, folks, and welcome again to the podcast. And I am so thrilled. I just thought that the network doesn't do it justice to have my dear friend Stacy Lanier, back with me on the podcast. Stacy and I have a we have known each other I hate to say how many years it is, but we were Yeah, we weren't. Stacy and I used to work together when we were both working for agencies. And we've kind of kept ourselves in touch throughout the years. And Stacey, welcome again.
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.
Yes. We were just kind of catching up where our kids were little kids when we first met and so they were kind of reminiscing about how they're all adulting now so
yeah. Yeah, awesome. It is to watch them adult. Yes, it is amazing.
Yeah. And, and feel good that you know, we did we did? Okay, I think we did, we did? Well, Stacey, for folks that might not know you yet. Tell them a little bit about you and how you landed where you've landed? Ah, yeah,
of course. So again, I'm Stacy Lynn air and I am a group practice owner in Nashville, Tennessee, where we all specialize in trauma, all of our therapists do EMDR. And I also do brain spotting as well. I have there three of us. And we're growing. And my specialty is seeing other therapists. And let's see, the last time I was on the podcast, we talked about building other streams of income. And I had, I was a co owner of in a co working space for therapists. And then the pandemic happened. So all of that really basically came to a screeching halt. So but here I am still practicing and seeing other therapists and growing my group practice.
Yes, yes. And I know, Stacy is is a person that I have always, I don't know, I've just felt felt close to her along the way, even though we don't see each other much. But yes, really, I think when I was she was actually my supervisor when I was working for the agency, and I just had so much respect for her and just her abilities and just her brilliance and and just how smart she is. And so, you know, one of the times Yeah, well, it's the truth, it's the truth. That's the truth. But, you know, as we were chatting before we started recording is that I know one of the kind of the missions that Stacy's been on here recently is really kind of pulling back the curtain on mental health in particularly for those of us that are in the field, or really being able to practice a little bit more self disclosure with our clients and, and really allowing ourselves to be vulnerable. So stay seated, to tell folks just kind of what do I how you've gotten your head around this so far?
Well, you know, I kind of landed in this place. After having, you know, had after having met with quite a few therapists, right had worked with quite a few therapists in session. And when you're working with other therapists, there's an understanding right about vulnerability, there are certain understandings, let's just say that about the therapy process and vulnerabilities and certain expectations that you will connect right with your with your clients, and also hold them in high regard as colleagues at the same time. And so in that, in those relationships and dynamics, I found that it was necessary to share a little bit more about myself in the therapy room, in order to build that rapport right with my my therapist clients. And so, you know, I use the example of when I was working with one therapist, and I shared a little bit about my marriage from 20 years ago, and it was a hot mess and she asked me was I a therapist then? And I thought that was so funny because you know, there's kind of this misconception that we all have it, we have it all together and our lives are perfect. And that is not the case. So I just wanted to kind of pull back the layer of self disclosure kind of push those boundaries a little bit understanding that we can't share you know, bare souls with our clients, but there are certain things that we can share that help build rapport, and enhance the therapeutic alliance. And then the other part is that we're in a global world now. We're a global society, and everyone's on social media. And if we're not sharing about ourselves, right on social media, sharing our lives sharing mental health tips, mental health information, can we really be trusted through our clients eyes? If we don't have a presence on social media? That makes sense?
Yeah, it does. It does. And, you know, that's something I've felt for some time is that I've just, you know, I think, Stacy, you and I've been doing this a good, a good while, I mean, yeah. And so you're, there's, there's a part of the clinical world, that is not necessarily stuff you learn in school. But yeah, I just learned through experience, and through experimenting with experimenting with techniques and just approaches and that kind of thing. And the one that I think, gives therapists more credibility is when you can do some self disclosure and talk about your own struggles and how, yes, how you've kind of overcome that. And it does. You know, like you shared, you know, troubles in relationships and troubles in, you know, with kids, and all kinds of things, I think just gives gives us more credibility with folks.
Absolutely, I think it, you know, speaks to our humanity, and, you know, the imperfections of being a human. And I never want to be seen, as you know, the person who has all the answers, now may have a certain mastery or expertise in certain areas. But I'm certainly not a master in being a human being right, that we come with so many flaws. And I think that it's important for us to show that part of ourselves as well, with our clients, and via social media, you know, we're talking about Person of the therapist type of them. And, and I think that it helps humanize us for the general public. Right, so that they're more apt to reach out to a therapist when they know, are just humans just like them.
No, right. Right. Yeah. Well, I think I know one thing that, that just a theme that I see, and I think most most therapists that I'm talking to here lately, we're not having too much trouble having to fill up our practices. Yeah, it's just, and I think with COVID, and hopefully, we're kind of on the hopefully getting out of the getting out of the peaks of it all. Although I'm afraid where it's going to be around for a while, but hope is, you know, not the lockdown stuff as much anymore. But it's, I think it's given people permission to talk about anxiety, talk about the mental health struggles that they have. And yeah, you know, those times when they feel sad or depressed, or all of those things are just struggles in their relationships, all of those things are now there's not as much of a stigma around seeking out help and talking to therapists and counselors.
Sure, absolutely. Absolutely. And yet, there is still you know, that stigma still exists in certain communities. And although it's, it's lessening, it's still there, and in the African American community, that stigma still exists. And I think that, you know, the millennials and the generation z's, you know, they're being called the therapy generation, which is amazing. It's wonderful. And yet, they're still some of us, like, I'm Generation X, I think your generation X, who are not seeking therapy as often as some of the younger generations. And so it's really important for us to continue. Right, this fight to D stigmatize the
Yes, yes. You know, I think I think about when I tell, tell clients just in the therapy room, you know, some some sort of anecdote or trying to talk about metaphor. And when I dropped the bomb of, you know, when I was talking to my therapist, that that's just kind of like you go to therapy, too. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's, that's one thing. I would encourage anybody that's listening that definitely can have your own therapist, if you want to. Yeah, and I know that's one of the things that you've really come to specialize in. Stacy is working with other therapists. Yeah, and And do you mind sharing to just kind of the process that kind of the difficulty you found as a black woman? Finding a right, the right therapist for you?
Yeah, well, years ago, maybe 10 years, 15 years ago, when I really needed a therapist as I was going through that difficult marriage, I could not find a couples counselor who looked like my ex husband and I, I could not find a black woman in private practice. And so we did seek out counseling. But there were barriers to perspectives and understanding of the African American live experience, which caused us to really kind of drop out of therapy and that statistically research, there's so much research around right around that. And so I just, you know, I became what I needed at a certain point in my life, as a black woman and private practice serving other therapists, because that is exactly what I needed back then. And it was impossible, virtually impossible to find in Nashville, Tennessee. At that time,
yeah, that's great. So I'm curious, what sort of as you work with other therapists in their own therapy, yeah, but what sort of themes do you see come up for people and in just the struggles that, that they have? Yeah.
Well, it's, um, you know, they're common struggles, like other clients, non therapist clients. And I find that it's, you know, really interesting is that, you know, we think that most of us like to be choose this profession. And really, I think the profession chooses us. And so there are those of therapists, those of us who have experienced childhood trauma, who have experienced, you know, really difficult relationships along the way. And so what I see in the therapists I work with is unresolved trauma, and, you know, family of origin, stuff that keeps coming up and in repeated patterns of in their lives. And that's what we address, and I do EMDR and brainspotting, which they seem to love as as a modality. And so for me, it's kind of twofold, right? So it's clinical, and we're working together, and we're helping to resolve their trauma. And with EMDR and brainspotting. They're experiencing these modalities that some of them don't practice. And I'm hoping it's, it's, yeah, I'm hopeful that, then it encourages them to kind of seek out and do their research around those modalities as well. So that they can offer that type of healing to their clients, too.
Yes, yes. Yeah. And it's, again, I would encourage everyone that's in this space, to find a good therapist to talk to for yourself. Yeah, it's one of the greatest gifts you can give yourself. I know, it's made a huge difference for me, as, as I've shared with you on the podcast before. My wife is disabled, and we've just gone through a lot of health issues with her and just her disabilities and the fact that she's in a wheelchair now and all of that kind of thing. You know, I couldn't cope with it if I didn't have some to about that. In real life. I'm real grateful for my therapist, Howard. Quick shout out to Howard. But, yeah, so I mean, that's the, that's the thing, just essential in may make us better clinicians to do. I think it makes makes it better for me. In the world. Yeah. Clients,
for sure. You know, we have to do our own work. And, you know, sometimes we we see our therapist, and, you know, we're, we may take a break, right, and then things come up and we go back to our therapists in the same way man, you know, therapist clients do as well. And what I find as I was thinking about what it was like to work in agency and working in private practice, you know, an agency all of your therapist brands are right there, you know, they you can stop at the watercooler you can take breaks with them you eat lunch with them and and typically, you know, you're talking about work and then you know, your life. You know, you kind of interject things are happening in your lives and our lives as well during those times. But in private practice, it really is, you know, kind of lonely, and you don't have as much opportunity for that kind of social engagement with other therapists which can kind of mitigate some, you know, the, the, when you're when you're not seeing a therapist, you on those downtimes, you have access to other therapists that can kind of mitigate some of that gap. But in practice, right, and it's really important to have a therapist that you're seeing regularly. So we're doing our own work. And like you said, we're all inundated with work. We haven't taken a break in 18 months, 19 months now, right? We haven't taken a break, we're holding space for people who are struggling or on the struggle, but so that like, some of us are also on the struggle bus. So, you know, another reason to, as therapists to have our own therapists,
right, right. Well, I've always, always felt that it's, you're exactly right, in private practice, it can get really, really isolating and lonely. Yeah. Because you don't, you know, unless you've got a group practice, but even even at that there's a little bit different dynamic for folks that are practice owners, you know, yeah, you know, it's with your, with your employees or your staff. It's a little bit different dynamic. It's not the chat, share things with them. But I think it's always good to have trusted colleagues that you can interact with, and you can share things and that that sort of thing. Excuse me? Yes. Sure. We'll cut that out. No, but what one of the one of the relationships I've have is with my good friend, David Hall, who's in Knoxville, Tennessee, and we talk regularly just about our practices. And we share, you know, he's a trusted colleague, we share our numbers, we talk about levels, you know, when we've had struggles with employees or struggles with different things around running the business, I think you need to have both of those kinds of people, your person that you do your clinical kind of self growth work with, but also yeah, having a trusted mentor that and colleagues that you can work through the business side of things with?
Absolutely, absolutely. Because they don't teach us about business graduates No, not at all. And the learning curve is steep. And it's long. And you have to have a support system, in business as a practice owner. And I encourage everyone as practice owners to find a mentor for sure. I have a mastermind group, through a company called brain trust, that actually forms masterminds for female entrepreneurs. And the five other women in my vault are not practice owners. They own various types of businesses. But it's such a great rich, deep learning environment. Yeah, to be connected with them. And I couldn't have made it this far. Without.
Yeah, and I've got something similar. It's three other three or the therapist that we got together. And yeah, quick shout out to Uriah and Jessica and wit. And we get together usually every other week, just to talk about all three of us have other side hustles where we're doing stuff like the practice of therapy and that kind of thing. And so I love that with Yeah, I think you absolutely have to have that as well. Yeah. People that you can bounce ideas off. So, so Stacey, tell folks a little bit about some of the other things you're working on besides your group practice.
So for sure, well, I have a blog now. And it is called Stacey Mabry, sta ce YMAYRE That's also my social media handle across all social medias at Stacey Mabry and the blog is basically a conversation with other therapists. Again, I see therapists as clients, and and they're also colleagues, right? So I just want to have a conversation about what being a therapist has been like for us what it's like some of the challenges I posted the other day about, you know, some therapists thoughts and sessions, and a couple of them were like, Oh, that's a cute shirt or a dress with her. We weren't clients. So, you know, we're just humans are sitting there. Sometimes our minds, you know, kind of wander off. And, you know, just having those types of conversations, you know, with other therapists to kind of bring a little bit of light and laughter as well, because our jobs are so serious. You know, we talk so much about trauma and problems and issues and how can we Talk about healing as well, and wellness. And so that's what the blog is about. I'm working on a journal, I will put it out there. Yes. Yes, I'm working on a journal that is directed toward other therapists as well for, for those therapists who can't do therapy with me, but that this there, this journal will serve as in the place of actual face to face therapy with me.
Awesome. And I'm sure you'll be hearing folks will be hearing more about that, as Stacey puts it out there. Because I told her I had to help her kind of propose promoted and put it out there when it comes out. Yeah. Appreciate that. Yes. Yes. Glad glad to do it. So well, Stacy, I want to be respectful of your time and that sort of thing. But what sort of maybe closing thoughts do you have just around this whole topic of? Yeah, we decided that I decided the, the, the title of this episode, even before I recorded it, which is very unusual. I think that's first time I've done I've done that when my therapists are a hot mess. So
yeah, you know, closing words might be just a car, it's okay. If your life is a hot mess, as a therapist, there are times when it will be a hot mess. You know, you may be going through grief and loss or, you know, divorce like I did, or as you're raising your kids, you know, parenting is one of the most difficult jobs ever also rewarding, but not absent of, you know, strife sometimes. And so, being a being okay, you know, I want us as therapists to be okay with our lives being a hot mess. Because we, that's all useful for us as we grow and progress and as we help our clients that, and it's okay to share some of that right, with our clients as well. In a measured way. And so just knowing that if your life is a hot mess, it's okay. And to and to and to find a therapist who, you know, who can help you through it?
Yes. And what I've discovered so far is that life is can be a series of hot messes. Yeah, it's, it's kind of come up, but we can all be resilient and we can persevere and, and we can, yeah,
yeah. And we can heal. Absolutely. And we will. Absolutely,
yes. And there's there's always joy on the other side of the hot man.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, yeah.
Well, Stacey, I'm so so glad you joined me again. And, folks, you'll be hearing more from Stacey linear. You need to check her. Tell folks how they can get in touch with you, Stacy.
Yeah, they can get in touch with me at F linear at truth empowered that calm, or again across all social medias at Stacey Meharry.
Awesome. Awesome. So I've got to get over to Nashville so we can do lunch.
Absolutely. Or I need to come up that way. Yes.
Yes, you got the place here. Thank you so much, Gordon. Thank you see you too.
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Gordon is the person behind The Practice of Therapy Podcast & Blog. He is also President and Founder of Kingsport Counseling Associates, PLLC. He is a therapist, consultant, business mentor, trainer, and writer. PLEASE Subscribe to The Practice of Therapy Podcast wherever you listen to it. Follow us on Twitter @therapistlearn, and Pinterest, “Like” us on Facebook.