The Practice of Therapy

Jane Carter: Hi, I'm Jane Carter. I am a therapist and business coach set in Asheville, North Carolina. And I am so excited to be back on the practice of therapy podcast with Gordon, my dear friend.
Gordon Brewer: Well, hello everyone and welcome to the podcast and I am thrilled to have one of my dearest friends Jane Carter back on the podcast. If you've been listening to the podcast for a while, she is no stranger to you, but Jane, welcome.
Jane Carter: Thank you so much, Gordon. I'm so glad to be back. It's so great to see you.
Gordon Brewer: Yes, and Jane and I have been commiserating about how we need to hang out more often, but yeah, and so Jane, tell folks a little more about yourself for those that might not know about you and how you've landed where you are.
Jane Carter: Yeah. So I, oh gosh, where to begin. I'll try to keep it short. I think, you know, I'm a rambler.
All right. Well, so, so I've been a therapist for 23 years. But I left my job 10 years ago to go into private practice and started doing business coaching about a year after that. So I've been a business coach for nine years. And I just, I love it. I love it so much. I love talking about it. I love meeting other business coaches and private practice coaches.
I love coaching people. It is just so much fun. And, and one of my core values in my work is that I really believe this process should be fun in addition to all the challenges and the hard parts and all of that. And I also believe that your business is here to grow you. So that's the lens through which I do this coaching work.
A little bit about more, a little more about me as a person. I I'm an outdoors woman. I also love to get dressed up though. I'm a former debutant who loves to go, you know I love to travel. I love good food and good drink and good coffee. And I have the sweetest dog in the world and the greatest friends in the world.
So I'm a pretty happy person. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: And I would, I would say that I've met a lot of Jane's friends and we have a lot of mutual friends and her dog is really good too. She's, she's pretty special. So, yeah. So, yeah. So, well, I know Jane, you and I had just kind of talked a little bit before we started recording and you know, we were just talking about you know, things that we've kind of learned or Just kind of realized, or as I like to say, learn the hard way sometimes, but things that we've learned in the years that we've been in practice and doing this, this work and you and I graduated very close to the same time from graduate school, at least.
And yeah, so what's been on your mind around all of that?
Jane Carter: Oh, wow. I, I, I jotted down some thoughts and, and there, there's so many, but I'll start with a really obvious one. Though, I think it's easy, especially when people are thinking about marketing and doing the right things online and all of that, I think people can lose sight of.
Relationships are everything. They really are. Relationships are everything. You know, even as someone who's built somewhat of an online presence. And even as I help people with that side of things, it really comes back to forming good relationships with others in, in the space as we my, my coaching friend relationships, you know, people that I think in another time and place, or maybe in different industries, people would call the competition.
Oh my gosh, no, we are all each other's biggest supporters. And have made the. The greatest connections through one another as well as just like, even when I was building my therapy practice and I, you know, I was so scared when I left my job. And what was really cool was that it was the relationships I had built 10 years before that, when I was just trying to find a counseling job, any job, right.
But I was just networking around town in Nashville. It was those relationships that ended up filling my practice, you know, when I would reach out and they're like, Oh, I remember you, you know, and I'd kept up with a lot of them even casual relationships. So. You know, again, there are all these little tricks and strategies and the latest thing, but ultimately it, it truly does come down to valuing people and nurturing.
Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yes. Yes. Yeah, that's been my experience as well. I, you know, every now and then I'm sit with the. With the few clients I do see counseling clients that I see now, I know the topic of, you know, especially with get younger folks and they're trying to find a job and they're, you know, stressing out over, you know, all of those kinds of things.
And, you know, it really does come down to, I think the relationships and the people that, you know, I think about all the jobs that I've had, and I can only maybe count. Maybe one or two that I got just by filling out an application, but all the others I got because I knew somebody or at least knew somebody that knew somebody, you know, and just made that connection and those introductions.
Jane Carter: Yeah. I, and I'm going to jump on that. I have two things around that, you know, one just recently A colleague encouraged me to just look at my data, like where are my clients coming from, right? I just had, I'm touchy feely. I don't check my numbers very often and I, I kind of did a breakdown and I was like, Oh, so yeah, 50 percent have found me, you know, through online or email or, you know, Instagram or whatever, but a full 50 percent of my clients have just come through personal referrals.
Which that's huge. I was like, Oh, so, okay, just be again, just being out there and being a friend and connection and being generous in that way. It's so important. I'll also back way up. When I first, Moved to town and had my, you know, shiny new counseling degree and no outside experience and all the jobs said, Oh, you've got to have two years of experience and you know, I just, and everyone was like, Oh, Asheville, you know, it's so you can't throw a therapist without hitting a yoga instructor.
You know, there's a job and I finally, I took a, like a minimum wage job at the Biltmore estate selling tickets. To their Christmas events, and I was so bummed out and it was actually my grad school advisor who said, just, just go to the town where you want to live and just start meeting people. And first two people I met in that job were the people who ended up making connections that led to my college counseling jobs.
which were like prime jobs. They were wonderful. But I was just being me and talking about counseling and how excited I was to get into that world. And they said, Oh, well, let me introduce you around at the college where I work.
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Jane Carter: Ended up eventually parlaying into dream jobs. So just talking to everyone, just getting an introvert, just, just forming connections.
Yeah. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. That's a, I think that's so true. And I think that's, what's gotten me in my practice to where I am today is because I've been. active in my community and people know me, just know me and they know what I do. And then things come up where, Oh, I've got, got so and so's daughter is looking for somebody or so and so's son, or, you know, whatever.
And that's how I get a lot of the referrals. And I think the people in my practice to do much of the same. So, I mean, it's just really, yeah. And
Jane Carter: I'll, I'll, I'm going to segue from that actually into. You know, the next big kind of lesson I've learned over the years. Mm-Hmm. . Which is because as, as we're talking, I'm thinking, oh gosh, but what about the, yeah.
The introverts or the shy people or the, the people who are listening and going, but I'm not a people person except in the couch. And, and the other thing that has been huge is just learning to truly like, be unapologetically you. Like lean into your youness. And it's still possible to make connections without being the socialite or without being a super, super extroverted person.
You know, I'm, I consider, I'm actually, I'm an extroverted introvert, so I can work a room if I need to. But the longest time, I mean, the biggest, I still really hold the standard. Like, if I go to a networking event and I talk to one new person, that's success. I'm like, okay. I talked to one person. That's one person that I've asked them questions of practice my social skills.
I've, you know, been present with them, but it doesn't you don't have to turn into a different person. The more you you are. And the less kind of trying to please everyone you are, the more successful you're going to be because people, they know, okay, this is a unique person and this is who's going to work well with them.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, yeah. So in, in your work maybe some folks would be. Interested in knowing kind of this story and you made kind of a transition from being kind of your typical mental health counselor to Doing coaching and what was behind all of that for you?
Jane Carter: Well, I because I had really good coaching and it was impacting My life and impacting my it was impacting my business.
It was actually impacting how I was counseling people because As you and I both know, there are actually a lot of overlaps, like running, running a business and learning how to run a business, but in learning how to do the mindset side of it and be confident as a business owner, there's so many parallels to the personal group that happens in counseling.
So I keep hearing myself, quoting myself, of quoting my coach to my therapy clients. And it was just really exciting to me. And, I, I wanted to do that. I was like, Ooh, I also love to learn. And I was here to learn more about this new profession and this new way of thinking about business. And so I just ate it up.
So I was like, well, if I get paid to do it, it's just, I'm getting paid to do the thing I love, which is to learn more. And it's just a different, I mean, I still, it's funny. I call business coaching. therapy. I'm still, it's just a different way to get to, to heal people. I mean, you know, when you're running a business, all your stuff comes up, all your emotional fears, your insecurities, you know, sometimes really old, deep stuff.
And your business is just one more arena to work through those things and do Do it differently, right? Take risks if you're someone who's been really fear based, right? That kind of thing. So yeah, I just found it so intriguing. So I, I don't, not in a great, you know, I made a first pancake and, and had to learn, get through that to like, figure out what actual pancakes I should be making with iteration of coaching.
But that's, I mean, I just kind of dove into it. It's exciting and interesting.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, yeah. And I think that's true for a lot of us that are doing kind of coaching and consulting and that sort of thing is, is that it's really at least for me, exciting to see other people grow with things and just really for having those light bulb moments, aha moments, you know, that, that we can, You know, it's very similar to in therapy, but particularly with our coaching and that sort of thing.
And I know one of the things that's a big thing for you, Jane, as it is for me, is just helping people with their mindset around it all. You want to say more about that?
Jane Carter: Yeah. And I, and actually, well, I was going to say before I say more about that, but actually this is so in line with that, you know, you and I've known each other a long time now, and I think you and I have both had to work through our own mindset stuff as we've moved, you know, grown in this field and this fairly new profession of coaching.
Right. But it's, what's cool is that I can reflect back to you. I've seen you grow in confidence. in this space, you know, and I think you've probably seen the same from me. And it's cool to be able to, to know people for a long time who can say, Oh yeah, you're showing up. You really, you're, you're, you're, you're in your zone.
You're in your zone. Yes. And it's really cool to see that happening. So, right. Yeah. I'm really excited for you. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. The same.
Jane Carter: Yeah. Yeah. But, but mindset wise, I mean, I, you know, I think the most basic way to think about it is that, you know, it's not just doing the strategies and the tasks and the recipes it's thinking about who you want to be as you're doing that, but who do you want to be on the other side of that intention?
Right. Who are you being in the process? Again, all of your stuff, there's no hiding from it when you're running a business. I mean, you're, your fear is going to come up. That's okay. That's normal. You're perfectionist. Your tendency to either hide or to like, Blow through things as fast as possible with as much boldness as possible without stopping to listen and learn, right?
Like
Gordon Brewer: you're,
Jane Carter: your life is always showing you where you're out of balance and your business is always showing you where you're out of balance. Only it'll just show up in a real business y way.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, right.
Jane Carter: So once you know where you're out of balance, You know, and for a lot of people, what they realize is, man, I beat the crap out of myself all the time.
I'm, I really don't like myself and that'll show up in your business. And so a lot of what I'm doing as a coach is helping people be kinder to themselves and, and learn how to really like themselves so that they can show up in a bolder way in their business.
Gordon Brewer: Right. You know, make
Jane Carter: money and have more time and all of the, all the fun stuff, right?
Gordon Brewer: Right. Right. Yeah. And I think yeah, you know, my own experience one of the things that I would tend to beat myself up over is, you know, I, I have a lot of knowledge about how to do the business stuff.
Jane Carter: Right.
Gordon Brewer: And then true confession here, I don't always do that myself. And
Jane Carter: I'm so shocked. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. So, yeah,
Jane Carter: sarcasm in my voice.
Right. Right. Yes. Yeah. I can relate that completely Gordon.
Gordon Brewer: Right. Right. And so the, the, and an example of that is here lately. I mean you know I'll share, share this. One of the things that in my own story and Jane's familiar with my story and people that have been listening to the podcast, you know, going through my wife's terminal illness this past year, and then her death and, and that sort of thing, I put a lot of stuff to the side, which I needed to and, and get, and being able to give myself a little bit of grace.
Around that or a lot of grace around that but I had let some of my systems and processes just really get sloppy and Fall to the wayside and then I go started when i'm getting back into as I call it the new normal I start looking at things like, you know, people always hear from me. Look at your numbers know your numbers We you know, that's a theme with all of us that do consulting, you know, you gotta Pull back the veil and
Jane Carter: yeah,
Gordon Brewer: you know pay attention to those things and not be afraid of it And so I did that and i'm thinking holy crap what has happened here with my practice You know, i've got all these money leaks that I was aware of and so Yeah, and so Yeah.
You want to say some things about that, about taking the, the courage it takes to really kind of look at the stuff that we're not necessarily proud of.
Jane Carter: Oh, yeah. I mean, you're really summing it up. It takes, first of all, it does take a lot of courage and, and self compassion is essential. And I don't just say that because I'm this really nice touchy feely person if we're not going to be self compassionate Then we're just gonna keep avoiding it more Just becomes a shame spiral, right?
When I talk about self compassion and fun, I'm like, no, no, no, like these are essential elements So that we can look at our numbers that maybe we've neglected or, you know, whatever the thing is that you might be putting off or feeling like you should be doing and, and be able to look at it with more curiosity than judgment.
Right. And I would guess, Gordon, if you, you know, if you really look at that with curiosity and non judgment, you know, where you would probably go and where you probably have gone, I hope, is, oh, well, I was going through this. Incredible life transition. I was doing the sacred work of transitioning someone out of this life who I've loved for so long.
And what I mean, you're, that deserves your focus and that deserves your a plus effort. And when we're doing something that we want to do be a plus at this, it's okay. That's not, there are going to be times we're going to do B minus or C minus work on those other things. You know, if you hadn't brought your full self to that transition and to even into your grief process, right?
You wouldn't want to you wouldn't be like, but I'm so excited that all my numbers are in pristine order Yeah I I mean, I think the big lesson is we can't it we can't do it all perfectly You kind of, you choose what you're gonna be a plus at at any different moment and what you're gonna do C be C minus at, you know, I may get my, all my ducks in a row and be getting my emails out regularly and have the best mastermind launch ever, but I'm gonna be eating hot dogs during launch week and pizza, you know, and my room, my house is gonna be a mess.
And , you know, so,
Gordon Brewer: yeah.
Jane Carter: Yeah. Does that make sense what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. I think we do a lot of, kind of going back to what you said earlier, do a lot of self shaming about things that maybe we shouldn't be so hard on ourselves about.
Jane Carter: Yeah. Oh gosh. And therapists, especially, we love to be hard on ourselves and we love to suffer.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Jane Carter: That's a little, I mean, I know I'm being glib, but, but you know, so many of us That was our role in the family, was to sort of be the sponge of all the emotion and all the chaos and to be the steady one. And, and so often there isn't a lot of room for being super playful and experimental and take risks and be messy, right?
So again, your business will kind of require that of you.
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Jane Carter: Otherwise you're going to You know, as we're all, as we become therapists and we monetize our pain.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, right.
Jane Carter: Like, we're really good at being there for people, right? And just, and being able to hold space for them and for their pain and for their growth and their struggle, which is such a gift.
It's so great to be able to give that, right?
Gordon Brewer: You're right.
Jane Carter: But we, we've got to learn how to do the self compassion side, the, the playful experimental mind side and the self compassion and like, I'll, with the self compassion thing, because another thing I've learned is there will be problems. I guarantee you, you will ugly cry.
in business for yourself. You will have moments where you're just like, forget it. I'm going to go, you know, work at Chipotle. I don't care. I'm done. And I'll have like with clients, I'll have a process. Like we need a process for when you're in the pit and how do you kind of come back into yourself? And then how do you come back into your business and deal with those problems that are going to come?
Because as someone once said, like the quote, maybe it was Seth Godin, who said, business is problems. It's just problems and learning to work through them, but it's still fun and rewarding. So, yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah, it's yeah, it's yeah, it is. And I think being able to accept just the, the flux of change are just things that are always, things are already, I guess that's correct word.
Things are always in flux. I mean, there's just constant change and being able to just be, accept that and, and yeah. You know, I interviewed a person in previous episode. Her name was Amy Dover. I think that's. She's a, she's one of our mutual friend, Whitney Owens is a consultant with what she's another consultant with practice, but I remember her we were talking about life balance and she says, that's really Really not a good way to think about it.
She says it's being him. She, she put it in terms of life rhythms and I like that. I like that, that, that way of putting things. That's
Jane Carter: great. It's more of a day.
Gordon Brewer: Right, right, right. Because, because, because balance implies that it's going to be like, you know, your checkbook balances, you know, kind of thing or whatever.
Yeah.
Jane Carter: Right, right. It's possible to always have it balanced. I love that. I think, you know, if we were going to get into the myths. One is, you know, there's no such thing as complete life balance. It's always a dance, right? There's no such thing as passive income. I'm sorry, there's no such thing.
Gordon Brewer: Right, right.
Yeah.
Jane Carter: And, and you know, many people have learned that the hard way.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Jane Carter: But, but that's okay, because again, once you know that, you can know, okay, well, so, Maybe I can learn, you know, whether that's through coaching or doing my own research, I can learn how to just be more strategic, have it, you know, more passive, less of a slog.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Jane Carter: You know, but yeah, there's, there are a lot of business myths out there.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. So what are some other things that you've had on your mind? Just things that you've kind of learned or this sort of thing?
Jane Carter: I mean, Oh, I love, I wish I had all the time in the world to list. I've had so much fun learning all kinds of different skills.
Right. I've loved learning to write better emails and and, and yeah, help people design strategies for their practice and go through those money conversations with their clients and all of that. There are all these specifics that if we had more time I'd get into, but if we're really, again, looking at the bigger picture Let's see, I'm going to look at my notes because I've jotted so many.
Okay, this is in line with be unapologetically you, but really own your awesome. Like, don't be afraid to be a leader, a guide, a superstar, a wizard. Like, to have a bit of a sheen of, wow, this person really knows their stuff. I mean, you know, also have the skills to back it up, what I mean, where I'm, what I'm getting at the, the, this is going to sound negative, but what I've learned being in the space and the coaching space in the online world, that kind of thing, there are a lot of superstars, you know, people that were like, man, they're killing it.
That's amazing. And I'm friends with a lot of them. And I know a lot of personally, like I've seen their businesses grow and it's been really exciting. And they are human beings. They are normal human beings who struggle, who sometimes do get way out of balance and make big mistakes or have, you know, Big personal challenges because they've been working so hard on the business and vice versa.
They are human beings. It's made me, it's funny. I feel less intimidated by like real, like celebrity celebrities. Cause I know all these business famous people and I'm like, Oh, this is a real so, Oh, so if I meet Steve Martin, like he's a real person too.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Jane Carter: Right. So the flip side of that coin is a lot of people Probably people who are listening, who think of themselves as, well, I'm just a therapist or, you know, I'm just a normal person.
I'm just me. I'm just no big deal. You are so much more awesome and so much more of a superstar than you may even realize.
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Jane Carter: And I'm really, especially with helpers and therapist types, I'm really not worried about them becoming. Conceited narcissistic people by just admitting, wow, I'm really damn good at this.
Like, wow, I do great work. I'm kind of a badass. What I'm doing is really incredible and I should talk about it more and let more people, I'm going to shine my light more.
Gordon Brewer: Right.
Jane Carter: At risk of doing that. Look at me, look at me thing. I'm going to shine my light more so that more people can find me and get the help they need.
I get so frustrated when I see people underestimate themselves because they, they don't want to be that. Conceited person. I'm like, no, no, no, but you're not going to become that person you, but you do need to shine your light and just know how awesome you are.
Gordon Brewer: Right. Right. And that's a whole, that, you know, that whole topic of imposter syndrome.
I think a lot of times we, so some, some sort of message that we get probably from parents and graduate school and everywhere else is we get that message of, Oh no, you can't do that kind thing. But Yeah, truth of the matter is we can, you know, you
Jane Carter: are, you know, yeah, yeah,
Gordon Brewer: yeah, I really want of people keep keeping ourselves in the boxes that other people create for us, I think is, yeah.
Jane Carter: I was just I had someone speak into my mastermind and she was talking about what did she call it? It was like just being beige, you know, because again, trying to make sure everyone's okay. Right. Like if I'm too bright or if I've got stripes and polka dots. I'm, I'm gonna, you know, it's going to offend someone.
It's like, you know what? Go ahead and offend some people. It's okay. Now, having said that, if anyone is on social media, they've probably seen the flip side of that, which is the, you know, just every other words, the F bomb, you know, like, look at me, I'm so different. I'm so controversial. You know what I mean?
Like, It's got to be sincere. If you're, even as I'm like, Hey, don't be beige. I'm like, but you know what? If beige is your favorite color, like, you know, it doesn't have to be, it's, it's leaning it again, leaning into being you and really seeing the value in that and knowing that the more you, you are both in your personality and how you talk in the specific people you love to serve and being really clear about that.
But that is going to be like a dog whistle. I it's going to, it's like a signal of radar that goes out where the people who are going to connect with you are going to go, I hear, I hear you and they're going to be attracted to you. And it becomes a lot more easeful, right? It's, it's not, how do I grab those clients and get them?
It's more like, no, no, no, no. I'm leaning into being me. I'm forming more relationships. I'm being vocal about who I am, and it's, it's really attracting naturally.
Gordon Brewer: Right, right, right. You know, one thing that occurs to me as you're talking saying all this Jane and this kind of piggybacks on a conversation I just had at lunch today with Friend of mine who's but folks that know me know that I'm involved with church stuff and that sort of thing.
And, and I was talking with the, the person, the church that I'm going to be reassigned to hearing in Kingsport and the rector there and I, the rector, the pastor, the priest for make people have that rest. We were talking about my role, my new role in going in that place. And one of the things that to, to, to understand is, Yes.
Understand your greatness, understand your gifts, understand what you're good at, but also pay attention to the stuff that you're not so good at and allow others to do that.
Jane Carter: Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. And so it's
Jane Carter: just,
Gordon Brewer: yeah, yeah. Just being able to say, okay, this is not my, because I think sometimes in business, And in, in our, in our practices, even we try to be everything for everybody.
And that will just absolutely wear you out and you will not do as good a job. And that just ties into the whole, whole thing that people hear repeatedly, you know, for those of us that have been around, but for those that maybe haven't been around the importance of creating a niche for yourself. Or a niche, however you wanna say that.
Jane Carter: I like to, yeah, there's the saying, the riches are in the niches, and I'm like, the Es are in the niches. the riches.
Gordon Brewer: Did I say niche ? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Jane Carter: I mean, I think, you know, you can learn new things. Certainly we've all learned new skills. Mm-Hmm. . When you go into private practice, you're wearing all the hats.
At first, right? And then you start to go, Oh, okay. I can start to invest in other people to wear certain hats that I'm not good at, or that I just don't like. Like it doesn't, if you're like a, I mean, we all have to write our session notes. There's no getting around it. But other than that, most, most unpleasant things can be outsourced or automated or, you know, we can get help with that.
But yeah, like really knowing your strengths is really, it's, It's important. And again, it, it, it makes it fun. And
Gordon Brewer: if
Jane Carter: you're having fun, that's a good sign. It doesn't mean that you're neglecting others. And, and the other thing too, I think kind of back to what you're saying the flip side is that avoiding shame, if there are things that you're just not great at in your practice, that's okay.
I'm terrible at numbers. I, I have, I, one of the best decisions I ever made was to hire a bookkeeper slash accountant to do all of that for me. And as I mentioned at the beginning of the session, like I had, you know, I hired someone just for a one time coaching session who was like, have you looked at your numbers and I was like you know, it's been a few years.
So, you know, like. So you can get through doing a lot of things and perfectly and you can do fine. But yeah, yeah, just like know your strengths. And again, I'm going to take the thing further of like, know your strengths and amplify your strengths. It does also come down to, you know, be work, continue to work on being good at what you do.
There's so much work around how to market, how to do money, how to all of these things that I love to teach. And, you know, I've, I've had. acquaintances, I was at a networking thing with other therapists last night. And, you know, there were some people I'd known for a while, this sounds so negative, but you know, they were like, I've done all the things I joined this pro coaching program.
And I took this course and I, Made all these slick materials and dah, dah, dah, dah, and I just, I can't seem to hang on to a client. And I'm like, that's because you're not, yeah, I'm thinking they haven't improved their therapy skills in a long time. And they're like, work on your skills, you know, stay in touch with that.
Being a really good therapist is a great way to get referrals.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. And do your, do your own work. If you're, if you're a therapist, get your, yeah, I mean, just get, get yourself in therapy. I mean, it's just, yeah, that's that's to me, that's a no brainer. And a lot of times we, we neglect that. I think as therapists.
Yeah. Yeah.
Jane Carter: It's, it's essential. Now having said that. Like, Hey, just be a good therapist and you'll get clients, you know, I do believe in another big lesson of all of these, you know, this decade of private practice, the 20 years of being a therapist, 23 years Is that getting help works, right? Where like getting therapy has made me a better therapist and a better coach.
Learning, you know, delving into learn continually learning about topics that come up in therapy, which I still get to, I love that we get to learn in this profession, I get
Gordon Brewer: to learn for
Jane Carter: fun. But it's part of work that, that that's going to make me a better therapist. That makes me a better therapist.
And as a business coach, I still invest in coaching for myself. Business coaching works. If it's a good, if it's good coaching, having colleagues, you know, having coaching friends that I can, that are in my brain trust and I can bounce things off of but also investing in coaching, like coaching can really help because as we see in our therapy clients, when you're this, when you're so close to it, it's just hard to see it.
Right. And we probably all have the experience of counseling someone that comes like three clients in a row on the thing that we're dealing with in our lives. And we're great at giving them the, you know, helping them through it. And when it comes to us, it's like, I don't know. What do I do?
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
That's the same thing.
Jane Carter: That's yeah. That's been
Gordon Brewer: a whole theme for me. Oh yeah. I sometimes think God is trying to
Jane Carter: tell me something cause I truly, like, I, I remember once I had Someone I was avoiding having the hard conversation with. I had three clients in a row who were like, I know I need to have the hard conversation.
I just don't know. I was like, okay, God is just like putting them in front of me message through. But yeah, I mean, so same thing with business coaching. You know, I know that I don't know what I don't know. And I, when I'm working with people, a lot of them, they don't know what they don't know. And so, and if they're not working with me sometimes, they, I want to like shake them and be like, Oh, you're missing the point.
You're missing it. Like you just have this one or two things you need to do differently. And, and if they are working with me, I get to tell them it's so fun. I get to work with them long term over that. But you know, we all need outside help and that's okay.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah,
Jane Carter: yeah, and
Gordon Brewer: I think I think every day and I would, you know, ditto to everything you've said there and that every time I've been involved in getting coaching or being part of a mastermind group or any of that sort of thing I have seen exponential growth.
Yeah, with the things that I'm doing and it's yeah, and it's you're, you're right. It's being able to see things from a different perspective, see things that we might get blinded to in our own businesses and yeah, and too, I think just having a community helps facilitate courage because you know that you've got other people that are, you know, Are going through either something similar or they've been there before That sort of thing and they can yeah support you through it all
Jane Carter: you find out that you're not alone for one thing You do get courage there was a study I don't know a few years ago.
Where they studied the brains of mountain climbers and they showed that people about to climb a mountain alone like mountaineers about to climb a mountain You know, hike up the mountain alone perceived the mountain to be 10 to 20 percent steeper than people who were standing with a friend who was going to do the mountaineering with them.
Gordon Brewer: Wow.
Jane Carter: Yeah. Like the challenge is so much steeper when you're alone.
Gordon Brewer: Right. We're just
Jane Carter: so wired for relationship. Yeah. And other people do give us courage.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
Jane Carter: And I know who is on my. Speed dial slash my Voxer app when I need a little courage,
Gordon Brewer: right? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, Jay, that brings us full circle to what we started talking about at the very beginning, and that's the importance of relationships.
And I know We've got to be mindful of our time. I know we, you and I are going to plan to spend at least a full day. We are, we've already talked about that, but, but tell tell folks how they can get in touch with you. And And and I'll say this, if you haven't done it already, take the time to sign up for Jane's emails list, because she's got the most wonderful emails of anybody I know.
And it's just, I look forward to them every week.
Jane Carter: Oh, thank you. I'm so glad. I love to tell stories in my emails and that's been a big, that was the thing I was, Trying to learn to write better emails and I love those emails. I love writing them and I love that people love them. So yeah, if, if people want to sign up for my emails they can go to my website, janecartercoaching.
com. And you know, there's a little signup area for the email list. I also have a whole page of free resources, freebies, free resources. We're coming up on, I'm not sure when this will be released, but we're, we're halfway through the year almost I have an annual. Soulful solopreneur reflection workbook that I, I sent out in January, but midway through the year is a great time to, to download that.
And I'm actually going to be offering a free workshop. To go through that as we enter the second half of the year. But I have several other freebies and I would love to meet people and hear about their businesses. This is, this is so fun. So yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. And the URL is janecartercoaching. com. Correct.
Jane Carter: That's the URL. I'm on Instagram at jane carter coaching. I'm trying to be more consistent.
Really going straight to my email list is the best way to be in touch. So
Gordon Brewer: right, right. Yeah. We'll have links in the show notes and show summary. Well, Jane,
Jane Carter: we'll be
Gordon Brewer: talking again here soon. I know we've got plans to do some hiking.
Jane Carter: Always enjoyed being on this podcast. I really appreciate you having me.
It's really fun.
Gordon Brewer: It's my pleasure.