The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer
Okay.

Dawn Gabriel.
Hi, I'm Dawn Gabriel. And I'm so excited to be on practice of the therapy podcast. And today we are going to be talking about how to build team culture in your practice, as well as the importance of soul care and really taking care of that side of yourself.

Gordon Brewer
Well, folks, welcome back to the podcast. And I'm so glad for you to get to know Dawn, Gabriel and Dawn and I met through our mutual good friend, Whitney Owens, and you guys know about Whitney, cuz she's been here on the podcast a bunch of times. But, Don, I'm so glad you're with me.

Dawn Gabriel.
I am very excited for this interview.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes. I'm excited to dawn and Dawn has a podcast as well, you want to say what that is? Sure.

Dawn Gabriel.
I launched a podcast this past year called Faith fringes, and it focuses on kind of integrating spirituality outside of traditional Christian norm.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes, that's, that's right up my alley, for those of you that didn't know a little bit about me and just my back ground. But Dawn before, before we jump in too far, why don't you tell folks a little bit more about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed?

Dawn Gabriel.
Yeah. So it's, I'm going to try to make this short, because I have a long history. I worked in so many different mental health places. But currently, I am a mom of two boys ages 10 And five. And I've been married about 12 years. And I live in Colorado, which I love, love hiking. But how I started is I started about 15 No, 16 years ago, I became a therapist and moved out to Colorado and started working in a jail. So I was in the county jail working with inmates that was not for me. But I got my licensure. And then I worked at a teen residential home with teenagers and we did some wilderness therapy. And then I worked at a psych hospital. So yeah, from there, though, that's when I started, I thought I this is not for me, the Community Mental Health. We kind of get burned out quick. So three years at the psych hospital. And that's actually where I met Whitney Owens, and we started working for a private practice as independent contractors. And one day, that nurse practitioner Let us all go at the same day. Wow. Yeah. And so within a week, Whitney, and I and a few other therapists started a group practice. So it was crazy. That's how we started. Within a week, we had an office a website, and we were like, What are we doing, but we just jumped in, started a group practice. And then after that, about three years later, a lot of us people were moving. And so we dissolved that practice. And I started my own group practice in Castle Rock. And that was about six and a half years ago.

Gordon Brewer
Wow. Wow. So I dare to say you've learned a lot. Yes, a wide variety. Yeah. So I know, as we were talking in I know, we're gonna kind of get get weave our way to soul care. But one of the things that I think folks might be interested in knowing is just how you've kind of built your team. And you know, what it's been like for you as a group practice owner.

Dawn Gabriel.
Yeah, so some of you listening might think, Oh, my gosh, she just jumps into stuff, which is true. That's my personality, where some people might be more conservative. So just like that, when I started my group practice, I did put a lot of thought into it. But it was more because I wanted to take a maternity leave of three months, and I still wanted to get paid. And I did love. I always loved working in groups, I believe when you are a private practice, Owner, it's really lonely unless you're in a group or have a group network around you. And so I started the group practice, but I didn't have any business skills. And I didn't know about this wonderful world of consulting that now I know a ton. So the first three years I kind of limped along, and just hired people who could see clients, I didn't really streamline my interview process, and I had some great people. But as I was into your three, I was like, I really want to make a go of this and I started noticing I can't, I have to start getting better at how I interview. I have to interview for culture. I have to interview for what's really going to work I started getting business consulting, and that's when my I feel like the trajectory of my practice really took off and that was three and a half years ago.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, yeah, that And the you're exactly right. I think hiring the right people, especially if you're going into group practices is really crucial. I mean, yeah, I've had had my shares of ups and downs with all of that. And so, yeah, and I know one one thing, too, that we talked about is just that's been really important for you is just building the right culture within your practice. And so you want to say some more about that?

Dawn Gabriel.
Yeah, I love this topic. Because I think, again, I think it's a learning process and a growth process as the business owner, I definitely wanted to have therapist on my team, I wanted the therapist to be faith based, but I didn't want the practice to necessarily be faith based. And so there's different types of ways you can do that. So we don't overtly advertise that we can integrate the Christian faith, we kind of have it more subtle. But as the team culture, I wanted that to be important to the people I hire. And so that was something I was trying to decide, do I have only people who come from seminaries? Or do I open that up? And throughout Tai Chi, there was one therapist who was one of the best therapists I know, she didn't graduate from a seminary. And I, that's when I decided to change that policy and say, No, I'm gonna go with who she is. And I know she can sit with clients anywhere they are. And so I started looking more at not so much rules that I put in place, but more that person and how I felt they would sit with clients. So that's when I started to kind of switch it. It because I did have some people who did come from seminary, and they did not work out. And they just hadn't worked on their own stuff. And so I think it's important when you're hiring to somehow ask a question to find out if they're in therapy, or if they've been in therapy, because you want therapists who've worked on their own stuff. Otherwise, it's going to come out, it's going to come out, you're going to be feeling like a client pull from them, you're going to be feeling a lot more as the owner that you're needing to deal with some things. So I now ask it, I now do a three part interview. I involve my team. In the second interview, the first interview, I'm meeting with the potential candidate, and I'm just getting to know them. And the second interview, the team sits in on it. And they get to ask questions, because we are hiring for team culture. And then the third interview, I'm meeting with them again to make sure. So it's not just a quick process. Yeah, the other thing I do is it's I kind of have a hybrid model. We're independent contractors, but it we still really value the team. And we everybody coming in commits to a team atmosphere. So usually that's more like an employee model. Right, right. But Colorado is very big on independent contractors. It's kind of the theme, although there's both but we do it where we still have team retreats, we do team monthly meetings, so they know that they're committing to that when they come in. And I used to not have it. I used to be like, Well, if you want to come to the team meetings, but now it's like I set it up in the interview. Because, again, this is six years in three, I stumbled for a long time.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, yeah. And I know that, that that whole thing with contractors just varies from state to state as far as how you can, how you can do that. And so I think you've got to do, you've got to do your research and that sort of thing on the front end, you know, so something that I'm thinking about. And you know, and we talked about this before, when I was on your podcast, just about self care, but also just in this. One of the things that I think happens is that I think a lot of folks have a preconceived notion about what Christianity is. And, you know, I've shared with folks and they hopefully, if they, if they've done any research on me, they'll know that I'm also a clergy person in the Episcopal Church. But one of the things that I think that we that can happen to people is that they can be spiritually abused by other ways of thinking about things and just understanding and in getting to know you, Dawn, I know that you're a person that regardless of a person's religion, it's more important for them to follow the path that means means the most to them and so there's no no push to try to convert people or get people to think about themselves. You know, to, to get, try to recruit people into a faith, faith. But anyway, not to get too far on a rabbit trail. But I know that that's been a big part of what you are doing in your practice and just what you're teaching other therapists is just around self care somewhat in the, in the context of spirituality. So let's, let's jump into that because I know that that's an important piece for you and your journey.

Dawn Gabriel.
Yeah. And that actually also plays into my team culture. When I'm interviewing people, I let them know, we are not trying to convert people. That's not our goal. Our first goal is to sit with clients in their journey. And wherever they're at, we are not covertly trying to do anything of that. But and so with that, a lot of therapists have a lot of questions. Well, how does that play out in the actual therapy room? Or? I mean, it's one thing to like, look at that in your own life. But it's another thing, what does that look like? And I've had a lot of people, therapists come to me, like, can we talk about that? And so we integrate that into our own trainings with my team. And then I started thinking, hey, I think this is a huge need out there to talk about. So the way I look at it is, I feel like we all have souls, right. And I feel like we need to look, there's a spiritual piece of all of us, whether whatever faith or religion, you choose to believe in and follow, there's still this element of something deeper within us that's bigger than us. And for therapists, I mean, we are creating and holding sacred space. For others, there's something sacred in that room, regardless of what anyone, one faith or one religion believes there, still a spiritual sacred space that happens and the healing, and the hope and the transformation in therapy. And so that impacts us on a deep level, as a therapist, and so I feel like we need to look at that deeply within our own self of what's happening spiritually in my soul. And that that's kind of where I start and having conversations around that.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes. And I, you know, I think, you know, over this past year, we've had a kind of another theme and thread that I've been seeing, it's just this whole idea of self care. And yeah, you know, what does that look like for people? And I think one of the things that I'm learning is that you need to invest in yourself care as much as you do any other part of your practice or your business. And because if you don't do that, it will quickly wear out for you. So yeah, so you want to you want to kind of say some more about that with your thoughts?

Dawn Gabriel.
Absolutely. Yeah, I think, a lot of therapy, I've worked with a lot of therapists, whether they've been clients or whether they're in my team, but I also have a big network of therapists I work with, and what I've noticed is counselors and therapy draws in as a profession, people who want to caretake or who want to give back. And so sometimes we put our worth, and our purpose in how we impact others and, and a lot of times that can come at the expense of our own self care. And we're not putting that as a focus. Sometimes it feels better to give to other people, sometimes we have to wrestle with some things if we're focusing on ourselves too much. And so a lot of our own stuff comes up. But it's so important, and especially in the last two years with the pandemic of oh my gosh, you have to take care of yourself because you're simultaneously going through a similar trauma that your clients are going through, on top of whatever else they're working on. And that's when it came front and center, I think for all of us is how much are we really taking care of ourselves, whether that's simple things like watching your sleep schedule, or your workout schedule, or just mindfulness downtime. I feel like that has been a huge focus that needs to happen because I've watched people burnout I watched I myself was burnout. I have it was when my kids were younger. I was starting and running a group practice seeing 20 some therapy clients a week and trying to be a mom and I just burned out my compassion fatigue was high. This is before and I just couldn't function. And unfortunately, my clients and my team were getting the best and my family was not and I was not okay with that as a value.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah. And I think that's something to always be mindful of and pay attention to. So how how are you building cannabis culture, the soul care culture? within your practice,

Dawn Gabriel.
yeah. And that's been a journey. It's I've been morphing it, I haven't arrived. But like, just yesterday, I offered a sole care day for my team, whoever wanted to, we kind of block the while it was from like 930 to two. And we blocked that day, the time and they came over to my house. And we started with a hike. We did like an hour and a half hike. And we did a mindfulness hike, I kind of did some like safe container, like leave work in the car, and let's just hike and experience nature. Like notice your senses turn off your phones like it just really practicing that mindfulness and slowing down. And then we had some alone time where they could read or just sit or journal or whatever they needed to do. I also integrated some spiritual exercises like guided imagery. I did some Lectio Divina, which is reading the Scriptures with like engaging the senses and contemplative reading. So but a lot of it was a lot of alone time. And then we had lunch together, and just a lot of good conversation. And it wasn't really work related, it was personal, related and spiritually related, which I feel like really refuels you at a deep level.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, yeah, I love that. And, you know, as we're recording this, I'm thinking about tomorrow, we've got a kind of mov with my staff, we're doing a lunch and learn kind of thing, and we're gonna talk about, I'm gonna talk with him about some of that stuff as well about how are you taking care of yourself, and, and all that. So I think that's an important piece with

Dawn Gabriel.
you. Yeah, of course. And another way we do it is during our monthly meetings, it's a two hour meeting, I always save at least 30 minutes, if not an hour to check in with the team, again, on a personal and spiritual level. And I try to do an exercise that helps them connect with their soul. And so I've been integrating that the last year, I would say, instead of all business, and even a training on mental health, like it's more focused on them as the provider.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Yeah. It's, it's funny, even though in our profession, we're real close to folks that are dealing with mental health issues. But I think a lot of times, we have kind of blinders to what's going on with ourselves. I know, that was one of the things that came out for me with, with my therapist, and, you know, just being being aware of my own kind of tendency to slip into depression and not be aware of it. And so, yeah, so that that was a big, big eye opener for me this past year.

Dawn Gabriel.
Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate you saying that. Because I think as therapists we do have a hard time identifying our own leaning and, unfortunately, leaning towards anxiety or depression. And, I mean, I was very aware of my anxiety. That's how I usually to life, unfortunately. But when I started working with trauma, and I was trained in EMDR, and so it seemed like my whole client list was trauma. I, I developed some depression. And I was like, didn't recognize it, because I always did anxiety really? Well. Yeah. And that's actually what started my research on Soul care and self care, but soul care. And I'd like to take a minute to explain that what I believe is the difference. I feel like some self care, you're in charge of like, I'm in charge of that I can schedule it, I can make it happen. And I am in control. With soul care, the way I view that is more, it's not just me, like I'm creating space, but I'm intentionally focusing on a spiritual for me, it's God, it might be something else for other people, like the divine or the universe, where that that spiritual being is in charge. Like, there's, there's something else happening within me. So it's bigger than me. It's a grounding value bigger than myself. And so I feel like that's the difference between self and soul care.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Yeah. And I think it's, I think, intellectually, sometimes that's a hard concept for us to, to get our brains around. But I think I agree with you, I feel like there if we can connect to that, that, that that thing, that being that whatever we, however you prefer to refer to what I refer to as God, if he can connect to that in some level, it's, it just opens up a world that we we that just is full of possibilities and imagine and all of that sort of thing.

Dawn Gabriel.
Yeah, it taps into that somatic world that I was not trained on, like 20 years ago, when I graduated. My master's program was more cerebral, I think, and we didn't learn about somatic stuff, we didn't learn about mindfulness as much even. And so I feel like my version of spiritual formation or soul care has been a lot more experiential, and more engaging the senses and more, it's almost more attachment based, too. So a lot of stuff that I you see in the counseling world with like EMDR, or attachment theory or somatic experiencing, like, I feel like that on a spiritual level, for me has been more helpful than any other type of care that I've right jumped into.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, I love that. So, yeah, so Don, I know you've created some, some resources to kind of help people with this. You want to say some more about that?

Dawn Gabriel.
Sure. Yeah. So about a year ago is when I had this idea for the podcast faith fringes. And it really is, I look at it as a journey alongside someone who's questioning their spirituality, or some people maybe have been hurt by have like spiritual abuse or hurt by the church, and this podcast is perfect for them. Because it's safe. It's very open, we value curiosity on there. And a lot of my pillars are how pain, doubt and hurt can lead you to be more spiritual. Also, trail therapy, or trail transformation can be therapeutic. So I am engaging a lot of other things to help people look at their spirituality. And then with that, I do offer through that faith fringes.com. On my website, I offer a workbook it's an eight week free email course short emails only eight weeks. And along with it is a workbook that they can either fill it in online, or just print out in journal, and kind of helps them engage all their senses. And I give each week as a different spiritual exercise and reflection that they can dive deeper and look into that.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. And we'll be sure to have links in the show summary in the show notes. How that how folks can access that. So yeah, so So I guess we better be mindful of the time but Dawn, I'm so glad you got to be on the podcast on the on this podcast. And I'm sure we'll be hearing some more from you. But tell folks how they can get in touch with you again.

Dawn Gabriel.
Sure. I am on Instagram and Facebook at Faith fringes. You can also check out my website faith fringes.com Send me an email Don at Faith fringes calm. But Gordon, I just wanna say I've really enjoyed getting to know you. I feel like we're kindred spirits on how we look at spirituality. So I'm very excited to have been on here today. Thank you.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, same for me. Same for me. Thanks, Don.