The Practice of Therapy

[00:00:00] Gordon Brewer: Well, hello everyone and welcome again to the podcast and, and I am really thrilled and I, I don't say that just lightly, but I am thrilled to have my dear friend Uriah Gilford, back on the podcast. Welcome, Uriah.
[00:00:13] Uriah Guilford: So good to talk to you, Gordon.
[00:00:15] Gordon Brewer: Yes. Yes. And Uriah and I at real, Uriah is truly one of my best friends.
And we, uh, I know we talk pretty much every week and we've done just lots of fun things with each other over the years and traveling different places and doing kind different things. But for folks that might not know you, Uriah like I do tell folks a little more about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed.
[00:00:40] Uriah Guilford: Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah, we have, we have really had some good times, some good memories and uh, some good plans for the future, so that's awesome. Mm-hmm.
[00:00:47] Gordon Brewer: Yes.
[00:00:47] Uriah Guilford: Yes. So you, who is Uriah? I am a retired therapist and I am an almost retired group practice owner, and I'm also the head nerd here at Productive Therapist.
And I think I'm just, uh. I'm a, a person who loves to help people and I love technology and I love bringing those two things together. So I've had a private practice and then a group practice for a very long time. And then about eight years ago, I started productive therapist to solve my own problem of needing part-time admin support.
And it was sort of a side hustle and then it kind of expanded, uh, over the years to become. My main business and what I love doing the most. So that is, that is what I'm all about. So I've kind of shifted from therapy to consulting and helping, helping therapists to sort of build out their private practices and, and use technology and AI to help do that.
And I'm having so much fun, honestly. So that
[00:01:40] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. That's a little bit about
[00:01:41] Uriah Guilford: me. Yeah.
[00:01:42] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. And I, I've had the privilege of kind of being having the, seeing behind the curtain as Uriah has developed all the things that he's developed. He's one of the most creative people I know. And so, uh, yeah. So, uh, yeah.
So I know today one of the things that we wanted to talk about is, um, and I've gotten really kind of passionate about it too, is, um, how. How AI is not only changing things, but how to use it, particularly what you've developed around having a an AI assistant so to speak, or AI intake processes and all of that kind of thing.
So. Yeah. So where, where shall we begin? As Esther Perel says? That is a good question. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's been fun
[00:02:29] Uriah Guilford: seeing you get, uh, more and more interested in AI too, and use it for various different projects. And there is this moment of excitement isn't there when you realize mm-hmm. This is not just a nifty tool that you can kind of use to replace Google or do, I don't know.
Make funny images of you and your family, which I do a lot of, honestly, but it can actually really help you with major important projects and whether those are like passion projects or it's your day-to-day work. And so I've seen, like, I think that light went on for me for sure, and I was like, this is amazing.
And then I've seen that happen with you too. It's, it's pretty fun, isn't it? Yeah.
[00:03:04] Gordon Brewer: Yeah, it really is. And that there's, um, I think the, the one tool that most people are familiar with is chat, GPT. But I know another tool that you've introduced me to, which has just been just blown my mind, is Claude Ai, C-L-A-U-D e.ai.
And, um. Just how it's really geared more towards kind of business stuff, I think would, would that be fair to say?
[00:03:31] Uriah Guilford: Yeah, I would say chat, GBT and Claude are, uh, have a lot of similar capabilities. They're both, um, AI tools that are LLMs or large language models, but each one has its own strengths, um, and weaknesses I would say.
But I found, uh, Claude to be incredibly useful for for business, like you said. And I could, we can talk about that a little bit. And then also really good for, coding and building web apps and mm-hmm. Vis building visualizations of data, whether it's financial data or other kind of metrics from, from the practice.
So yeah, I've, I've really enjoyed that. I actually go back and forth and I use both for different things. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I think, and I think a lot of people who are really into using a AI do that. They use a number of tools. Oh, right. But the truth is, you can get a lot done with chat, GPT and you can get a lot done with, with Claude if you just use one or the other.
Right, right. So that's, that's kind of nice. Yeah.
[00:04:20] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. That it is, it really is. Cool. And I, you know, I've it's, it's amazing how you at least for me as I'm, I'm doing stuff, it is just, I think, oh, I could put that into, into chat GBT and, you know, just get this whole new. Right thing that where before I would've spent hours, you know, doing stuff and working on things.
So I mean, it's just really, yeah, time saver.
[00:04:46] Uriah Guilford: That's one of the biggest mindset shifts I think that everybody can experience when you go from thinking about it every once in a while. Like, oh yeah, I should get some help from chat GBT with that email or something like that to it being, becoming your default.
Not to replace your critical thinking or your creative process necessarily. Right. But to really take the idea that you have or the problem that you're trying to solve, and, um, just kind of have an AI first approach. I think that, I think that's really helpful.
[00:05:14] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. So one, one of the things that you've done is just taken all that technology and really, really applied it to, um, your business, the productive practice, and being able to use, start using AI for the whole intake process, because I know right, but most people don't really think about it.
But that's, you know, that's the first, first contact you have with any client, and it's so important to have that. Have that, all of that working well.
[00:05:44] Uriah Guilford: It really is. Yeah. And for people who might not know, productive Therapist is a company that helps therapists, uh, streamline and operationalize their intake process.
Mm-hmm. So everything from that first contact to the first session, and then the customer or the client support after that too. So that's kind of our area of. Specialty. Mm-hmm. And applying AI to that is relatively new because what we provide, our core service is human virtual intake coordinators.
Mm-hmm. So we will handle, you know, all the incoming emails, all the incoming phone calls, match clients with the right therapist, and then handle the insurance and all the backend stuff. Right. Right. And that's an incredible service that people seem to really enjoy. I use it myself, so I, like I said, I built it for myself.
Mm-hmm. Up until recently, like applying technology to the intake process. Was mostly about using the features of your EHR better, right? Mm-hmm. There wasn't a lot of automation or sort of higher level technology that we could apply to it in a secure, you know, HIPAA compliant manner. But now that has changed the thing that I'm mm-hmm.
Most excited about. You've heard me talk about this probably too much, but No, no. That I'm most excited about is the. Capability of having an AI receptionist that's trained on your practice, answer your phone twenty four seven three sixty five, and be able to do a couple important things. Answer all the questions that every client asks.
Do you take my insurance? Do you have availability on, you know, these days? Um, and, and do you help people with these kinds of challenges? Answer those questions. Collect some info and then even be able to take an action like booking a, an a consult with an intake coordinator or even with a therapist directly.
And it's, so that's, that's a brand new thing. It's relatively new for most of us, and I've been working on building those and I'm installing them in people's practices and it's, it's really, really fun.
[00:07:35] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. In, in many ways it's kinda like a, an interactive voice. What am I trying to say? Voice voicemail kind of thing.
I guess that's the, that's, I'm, I'm aging myself by calling it that, but I mean, it's, in other words, that somebody actually gets a response in real time to questions that they have.
[00:07:56] Uriah Guilford: Right? So it's fully conversational. Ai, AI agent specifically. And, you know, we've had voicemail. What do, what do you call those?
Voicemail trees, you know? Yeah. Uhhuh for the longest time. And then you mm-hmm. You know, you have, you've had those experiences where you call at and t or Verizon to like, get customer support and they navigate you through this, this whole process, it's been a nightmare. They're, they're never good. Mm-hmm.
They're always frustrating, right? Mm-hmm. And then you have to kinda like, shout at it and say, speak to a human. I need a representative. Right. Right. And the, the amazing thing is that with. The introduction of AI to these, these kinds of platforms, it's gotten incredibly useful and actually practically useful.
So you can have a back and forth conversation with the AI agent. And it can, it's interesting because, um, on the backend, it doesn't just say the script that you've dialed in, but it can actually, sort of not, not be creative with it, but it can have a back and forth flowing conversation instead of just like a robotic voice that's just repeating what somebody has written.
Mm-hmm. So it feels more natural. Mm-hmm. And the voices are actually getting better and better. And so it's, it's a better experience honestly. And you know, some people say. Like, I don't know how I feel about my clients talking to ai. I don't know how they'll feel about it. I don't think I like it.
Nobody wants to talk to ai and to that I would say absolutely nobody is like, wakes up in the morning and thinks, you know what I wanna do, have a long conversation with an AI agent today.
[00:09:22] Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm. Right, right. Nobody
[00:09:24] Uriah Guilford: does that. Right,
[00:09:25] Gordon Brewer: right. But my, my
[00:09:26] Uriah Guilford: hypothesis is that everyone is trying to solve a problem at some point in their, in their day.
And if an AI tool or an AI agent helps you accomplish your goal and solve your problem, you're gonna be perfectly fine with it. So if I'm looking for a therapist and I call, you know, five or 10 practices and I get nine voicemails, but one of them picks up and it's an AI receptionist and I'm able to book a call with someone who's gonna connect me with a therapist, I think, I think people are going to be happy about that.
We'll see. Right. But I, that's my hypothesis.
[00:10:00] Gordon Brewer: Right. Right. So for those that are curious, you wanna walk us through kind of how your process works at productive therapists and what people the, yeah. The different ways that it can be used.
[00:10:12] Uriah Guilford: Yeah, thanks. So we are, um, the amazing thing here is that we're combining the AI receptionists with these human intake coordinators who are amazing.
We have an amazing US-based team. Um, but a lot of practices out there have their own sort of in-house intake coordinators, which is fantastic. So that's what I think is most powerful is combining the two. Right. So we do that. We have a service where we'll give you an AI receptionist and we'll give you a human intake coordinator and they sort of work together.
Or we can provide therapists with an AI receptionist that just supports them. Let's say it's a solo practice, right? Maybe, you know, you just want someone to answer your phone and book calls on your calendar so you can talk to potential clients. Great. We can do that too. Mm-hmm. Um, so that, that's kind of the way it's working and, um, we're configure, like we're working out the details in terms of how.
Does the, you know, human oversee the AI and make sure that it's doing what it needs to do. Mm-hmm. And make sure we're not losing the human touch too, because the AI is not, not there to take the place of the intake coordinator or take the place of the therapist. Mm-hmm. We can talk about that if you want, but that's not the goal here.
The goal is to just get that person, like basically narrow the gap between first contact and first session. That's, that's what we're trying to do.
[00:11:25] Gordon Brewer: Right, right. Because I think one of the, the important things to think about in just doing the whole intake process is that, you know, if you think about your potential clients, they've probably had to kind of build up to wanting to call and make an appointment and that there's some underlying anxiety around that.
Right. And, and so if they're calling and just getting voicemail after voicemail, um. The typical pattern, I think, and you correct me if I'm wrong on this, Uriah, is if they don't get through to somebody a human with when they call, they're onto the next, now onto the next phone call.
[00:12:07] Uriah Guilford: Absolutely. You're a hundred percent right, like.
Everyone who's reaching out for a therapist is doing so in a moment of need, right? Mm-hmm. A moment of maybe crisis even. And it's like a, a spot where pain meets courage, you know, and then they finally pick up the phone or they finally fill out a web form, whatever they're doing. And, uh, the truth is that the first therapist to respond often gets the client, um, mm-hmm.
In most cases. That's, that's the way it works. I sometimes, uh, share this story about a, a couple years ago when I was hanging something above my toilet in my bathroom, and I'm like a little bit of a home DIYer. You know, I'm not uhhuh, I'm a little handy, but not too much. So I'm hanging this thing above my toilet and all of a sudden I'm, I'm drilling a screw in there to, you know, hang the, I think it was a mirror and, um.
Water starts coming out of the drywall. Deeping out of the drywall. And I was like, oh no, this is bad. And sure enough, there was a water pipe, a copper water pipe that went right, right there, and I nailed it right in the middle. So, um, oh my gosh. I ended up having to cut a hole in the drywall and figure out what was going on.
And I'm not, I don't do plumbing, right, Uhhuh, I don't do electrical, I don't do plumbing. So I immediately. Got on the phone, or actually, I got on my phone and I, I think I ended up on Yelp, actually. Maybe it was Google or Yelp, and I found plumbers. I, I called three plumbers, one. No answer. Two, no answer. The third one, I called the plumber, actually answered the phone and I was like, thank goodness, you know, so I talked to this guy and he was really nice.
He was actually a one man shop, and, and he ended up coming that day and patching my pipe and all that. And it was, it was amazingly helpful. But the, the point there, of course, is that I had a very pressing need and right. I reached out to a couple different businesses and the one that responded first. I, I was happy to pay them whatever it was, two or $300 to fix the, the problem, right?
Yeah,
[00:14:01] Gordon Brewer: yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's, that. That's so cool. So, um, what, what would a person, I guess one of the things that maybe people are kind of, um, leery of is, is they're, they're concerned about the experience of potential clients. Right. And just, you know, interacting with, you know, a bot, for lack of a better term to mm-hmm.
To call it. So what, what have you figured out with that? And by the way, I, I've listened. I, I was kind of, uh, helped, uh, Uriah Beta test a few of the things that he was doing and I was just amazed at what, what it can do. But anyway, you wanna tell, tell folks about that. Yeah, it's surprisingly good.
[00:14:43] Uriah Guilford: Yeah. So just to kind of connect the dots, uh, 'cause I know people are probably listening to this and, and trying to figure out how this works.
So the AI receptionist is built and delivered through a software platform that is HIPAA compliant, that we, you know, sign a BA with folks. And so in that software platform you can, you, as the practice owner or one of your team members can literally see every single conversation that happens and. For most of these accounts that we're setting up, we are, we are turning on call recording, so I think that's important.
So you can do just a transcript of the call or you can do an actual audio recording as well as transcript. So you can go in and, and listen to those, read the transcript, just make sure that the AI receptionist is responding the correct way. Mm-hmm. And then there's this sort of, there's a pre-training process where we do a bunch of testing, make sure it's, you know, doing what we want it to do.
And then as, as it's operating, um, there's some oversight that's necessary. And then. If there's a, something that needs to be changed or tweaked, we can go in and change the prompt, change the FAQs, change the training essentially, and fix it. But I, I'll, I'll tell you, I've had several of my friends, you included do some testing and ask all kinds of questions.
Really try to get it to go off the rails. That's the terminology that they often use. Mm-hmm. And get it to make a mistake, give wrong information, be inappropriate, and it just doesn't, and. The reason for that is that in this software platform, in this context, it has very strict guardrails, right? So like if you go to chat GPT and people have heard the stories about ai, you know, giving really bad advice and sometimes detrimentally so, mm-hmm.
So this AI receptionist has super, like. Firm guardrails. And so every question I asked it, everything from like, Hey, I think I have a DHD, can you diagnose me all the way to you, you sound amazing. Are you single? Something like that. Right.
[00:16:36] Gordon Brewer: Uhhuh,
[00:16:36] Uriah Guilford: it, it handled all those prof like professionally. Like it would apply empathy.
Like, it sounds like you're going through a hard time. Let let me get you connected with a good therapist and it would redirect them to the right path. Mm-hmm. So I've been very impressed so far. I haven't, I haven't seen or heard or experienced anything that's been concerning. It's always something to pay attention to.
Obviously this is new technology. Mm-hmm. And in a healthcare, um, or behavioral health context, we wanna make sure that it's like a hundred percent good.
[00:17:03] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would think, I, I would think too with just the services you're offering, you've got the, the AI stuff, you know, it's kind of the frontline thing, but then you've got virtual assistants that are real people.
[00:17:18] Uriah Guilford: Right. That,
[00:17:18] Gordon Brewer: back that up. You wanna say more about that?
[00:17:22] Uriah Guilford: Yeah, definitely. I, I've, like I said, I created this business to support my group practice, and I've been actually working with the same virtual assistant at Productive Therapist for seven years. Tiffany's been with us for seven years, which is amazing.
Mm-hmm. And she handles everything, everything on the back end, every single email that comes in, every single voicemail. Um, and now she's, now she's overseeing Sarah, who's our. Yeah. Receptionist. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So Tiffany is working together with Sarah, and that's the service that we provide just to handle your entire intake process.
Mm-hmm. As well as, um, backend sort of back office tasks that are important. Yeah. Whether that's verifying insurance, fixing credit cards, uh, making sure people pay, pay their, um, you know, their, what, whatever amount do they have for their services. It's really, really helpful because. You know, if you've, you've probably heard this saying that like, if you don't have an assistant, you are the assistant.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And that's so true. And a lot of us are doing too much and we desperately need to delegate, but it's hard to delegate and it's hard to find people you trust. To take over, especially something like intake, right? To take over something that feels so personal and so important, mm-hmm. But there are really great people out there including productive therapist and others that you can find too, right.
So that, that's definitely something I'm always talking to therapists about. Like, hey, sure, let's, let's see if we can help you avoid burnout, so let's not do all the things, you know? Yeah. Get some help.
[00:18:44] Gordon Brewer: Right. Right. And, and that's one, uh, you know, in the consulting that I do with people, that's usually one of the first things that we talk about is, okay, what can we get off of your plate?
Uh, particularly those things that are just time consuming that really don't create any direct income for you. Right? Those are things that you definitely need to, to outsource and not spend a lot of time trying to bootstrap and using up all your time. Doing. Definitely.
[00:19:13] Uriah Guilford: The way that most therapists make the most money is either by being in sessions with clients mm-hmm.
By working on their business and expanding it. Right. So intake is very, very, very important, but a lot of therapists don't need to be doing it. You know? Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. But it's hard to let go of I and I I understand that. Yeah. I, I went through that myself, you know? Mm-hmm. When I first delegated the intake process, and, I mean, here's the thing.
If I was to go back to being a solo practice today, I would 100% use an AI receptionist. Mm-hmm. I would probably still do consult calls and I would have them booked with me directly. Um, but on my, you know, on my time, on my. How I, how I want it to happen. I, in other words, not answering the phone all the time and being constantly available to people.
Mm-hmm. Right. And then I would also turn on self-scheduling in my EHR personally, I would, and then just help, help people get used to, you know, using the AI receptionist, using the client portal. Like try to automate as, as many of those things as possible. And then I can fully show up in session and be the best version of myself possible.
Yeah, that's, that's what I would do, honestly.
[00:20:21] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, um, Uriah, I know we've gotta be aware of our time, but tell folks too, one of, one of the other cool things that Uriah's got available is a directory of different services and consultants and all that sort of thing.
Yes. Say, say a little bit about that.
[00:20:40] Uriah Guilford: That is a good segue from talking about delegating and getting help to, uh, the productive therapist directory. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I, I'm like a, a resource person and I like to connect folks with good resources, obviously productive therapists, but there's so many other great resources out there, like practice of therapy, um, and, and others.
And so I, I built this directory a couple years ago, and you can go check it out@productivetherapistdirectory.com, and it's really a business directory of. Folks that provide services to private practice therapists. Mm-hmm. And that's bookkeepers. We're talking about web designers, uh, virtual assistants.
There's actually quite a, quite a few virtual assistant companies on there as well as consultants. And it's really, it's really a great resource. So if you're looking for digital marketing support, any of those things, you can go and find a, a quality person, whether it's a freelancer or a company that provides those services.
And, uh, yeah. I recommend it. Yeah,
[00:21:33] Gordon Brewer: yeah. Yeah. And that's a, that's a good thing. And, and I know too, uh, Uriah's got a lot of other good little freebies and things that he offers by going to his website and, um, yeah, it's a, he's a good one to connect with and, and also get on his mailing list and that sort of thing, because.
Uriah is always coming out with new things and new gadgets and new stuff. That's just so cool. So yeah,
[00:21:59] Uriah Guilford: thanks for the kind words, Gordon. I, I always find fun, interesting things and I, I like to share them, you know?
[00:22:05] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. That's great. Well, Uriah, tell, tell folks again how they can get in touch with you and find out more.
[00:22:12] Uriah Guilford: Sure all the info is@productivetherapist.com and that's where you can find out about the AI receptionist as well as our virtual assistant services. And like Gordon said, get on the email list. I send one email a week. I try to keep it really, really practical and helpful and I really enjoy doing that.
And lately it's been a lot about ai, so if you're curious about that, definitely tune in 'cause I'm sharing all the fun stuff.
[00:22:34] Gordon Brewer: That's great. That's great. Well thanks again Uriah, for being on the podcast and, and folks you'll be hearing from Uriah tons more in the future, I'm sure.
[00:22:43] Uriah Guilford: Thanks Gordon.