The Practice of Therapy

Gordon: Well, hello everyone and welcome again to the podcast and I'm so glad for you to get to know Rachel Einemann. Welcome. How are you?
Rachelle Heinemann: I'm good. How are you?
Gordon: I'm good. I'm good. And so we had a little bit of chance to, to catch up and, but as Rahel is as I start with everyone, tell folks a little bit more about yourself and how you've landed where you landed.
Rachelle Heinemann: I'm Rachelle Heideman. I'm a licensed mental health counselor in New York and a licensed professional counselor in Jersey and a certified eating disorder specialist. So my practice is Is you know, focuses on eating issues and body image issues.
And I'm also trained psychoanalytically. So you know, part of the work that I do is trying to understand a lot of what makes us do what we do and why we do what we do. I also have a podcast it's called understanding disordered eating, and I talk about all that stuff. And yeah, I, you know, I love working with other clinicians doing trainings and things like that.
So just sort of breaking up the, instead of just one to one therapy, bringing it to you. To be able to do a lot more things. You know, I was sort of, I think I was born to be much more entrepreneurial. I never saw myself sitting at a desk or even once I realized I was going to become a therapist, I never saw myself doing the same thing every day.
You know, the sort of nitty gritties of how it came to be was, you know, I guess less important and less did my mind. It's like, all right. So I went to this training. It was great. I met some really good people and I got some really good training and it really resonated with me. So that seemed great. But I think that in terms of specifically the body image and the analytic piece that probably started way earlier, you know, with basically everybody that I knew being on a diet, being dissatisfied with their body.
And also, you know, as therapy became more accepted. Within, you know, just all communities. It was something where people were going to therapy and saying like, Oh, this is evidence based. We have to do it this way. We have to do it. You know, this is the one way that you can do this kind of work. This is the best way and every other which is sort of implying that the other ways aren't that great.
But I think what I had a problem with is that that doesn't really take the individual into account. And so thinking about my own experience and, and that I don't fit in any box. And a lot of people that I know don't fit in any box. I was like, okay, what, what kind of work can I do that can help me step out of the box and really understand the person who's sitting in front of me and actually help them?
Which is sort of where the analytic piece comes in, but I don't usually use the term. Analysis just because that gets people creeped out. It's not really like lying on the couch
Gordon: Right,
Rachelle Heinemann: that's that's the long and the short of it.
Gordon: Yeah. Yeah, so it's a yeah, it's a I'm, really fascinated by the you know as we were kind of chatting about before we started recording the this whole culture that we've created around body image and dieting and how that, you know, that really does seem to be one of the things that leads to eating disorders and, and you know, unfortunately, we see it a lot with teens and that kind of thing. So, how are you finding the, our cultural influence affecting your work in working with the eating disorders?
Rachelle Heinemann: Yeah, it's, it's tough. I think that there are so many more people on board than even a decade ago. So it's nice to see that people are interested in healing their relationship with food and ditching the restrictive diets and embracing all different body types. But it, so, you know, sometimes it feels like we're swimming upstream in that the norm is you got to attain this kind of body, which, you know, every few years is changing, so you got to change your body every few years, I guess, even if you are able to attain perfection.
And, and it sort of, it sort of leaves. No room for people to be who they want to be or or even get to know who they are. You know the all the perfectionism and of course social media impacts this negatively the comparison where people just sort of feel like in order to feel good about themselves.
This is the kind of way that they have to look this. These are the kinds of things they need to eat. Otherwise, like, you know, you got to basically die trying, which is such
Gordon: a
Rachelle Heinemann: waste of, of so many beautiful lives.
Gordon: Yes. Yes. And I know something that you're passionate about is just, For those of us in this field of how we can, you know, live into more, more effective self care, which really ties into a lot of the work that you're doing with your clients.
Rachelle Heinemann: Totally. Yeah.
Gordon: And
Rachelle Heinemann: sometimes I love the term self care and sometimes I hate it because it has this very, like, like. Like a woo woo almost like it's very spiritual. Oh, you have to take care of yourself. It's very intentional. And it's very, very specific type of person. But I think ultimately, we just have to make sure that we know what we need and we're attending to our needs, whatever we call it.
Because ultimately, When we burn the candle at two ends, then we're doing no one a service. So besides for burning ourselves out, we're not there for our clients. We're not there for our family. And so if we're looking at ourselves as an investment for the rest of our lives, we have to take breaks.
Gordon: Yeah, I think that's, that's something that I'm learning a lot more about is creating more downtime or a Sabbath, if you will for yourself.
And I think we probably, Get influenced a lot, and I know we were talking about this before we started recording just kind of how the the parallel between the hustle cut culture and the dieting culture kind of parallel each other. You want to say more about that?
Rachelle Heinemann: Yeah, I mean, it's it's really interesting because.
When people have this pattern going on, what happens is even if they do address their relationship with food, say they have some sort of restrict, restrict binge thing going on. And they work really hard and they're not restricting or binging anymore. If they don't actually get to the roots of what's causing it, then very often it can come out in other ways.
So their relationship with money or their relationship with work, because ultimately it's not about the food. It's not about the work. It's about what's driving it. Yeah. But I think this restrict binge thing happens so often, of course, with food, but also with work where, you know, we have to go, go, go, go, go, there's, there's no room for, for breaks.
It's just sort of, in my mind, it's very almost, it's very restrictive because it's a very narrow, like, if I don't work, I will not make money. If I don't work, I will never make it. It's very, very restrictive mindset. And then there's like the, the effort, like, well, whatever, none of this is working. So I may as well just throw in the towel, have like the entire pie of pizza plus three pints of ice cream and like, whatever.
And we sort of go from like all in, not in, and what if we can just sort of like get in the gray and work a few hours, take a break, have a really intentional goal for this week or quarter, but not anything that's going to, you know, drive us into the ground. And so the, the all or nothing is something that happens across the board with both of those cultures.
Gordon: Yeah. Yeah. It's in every, you know, that old saying in everything moderation. And I think that's hard for us to do.
Rachelle Heinemann: Yeah. I think that the biggest, The biggest thing is where we derive our self worth. So if we're talking about diet culture is, is it from our body image or from our relationship with food?
Like, are we the healthiest person on the block? And with work sometimes it's, it's how much money do I bring in? What does my practice look like on the outside? What are people going to say? As opposed to do I feel proud of the work that I'm doing? Does it satisfy me? Does it bring meaning to my life? Am I able to help people?
And that's what, you know, brings us the confidence to do what we got to do, as opposed to what it looks like on the outside or how many dollar signs we have after our name.
Gordon: Right, right. Yeah. I'd say as you're thinking, as you were saying that, I would just, the word that came to our words that came to mind or self self validation and yeah.
How do you think people get there?
Rachelle Heinemann: Ooh,
Gordon: this
Rachelle Heinemann: is a tricky question because I think that no matter what we talk about on any podcast, to be fair. It's not really about coming up with a bullet point, you know, three bullet points and following that and then you get there, but I do think that, you know, there's a few prongs to it that if you practice, and of course, you know, it's not just about the practicing, you got to go to your own therapy and all that kind of stuff and really understand what's going on with your self esteem.
But, you know, one piece is, and people hate this, I hate this. I would roll my eyes at myself if I were, you know, several years earlier. Some of it is a little bit of fake it till you make it, meaning that you sort of got to tell yourself like. You know, just because I didn't make that kind of money or just because I didn't make that kind of impact doesn't mean I'm not worth anything or, you know, I showed up today and therefore I, you know, I'm exactly where I need to be.
So, so I guess people would call it affirmations. You can even write it around on your mirrors, but just sort of like talking to yourself in that way. Because I don't think we notice when we have this really mean voice in our minds all the time and that's sort of dictating the tone. But another thing I don't get, I don't think it's enough airtime with self esteem is or the self validation is mastery.
So when we, when we, Build mastery when we do something and then we've achieved a goal. That's what sort of is another notch in the rung of building our own validation, our own self esteem. So, you know, especially as it relates to business, if you're, say, starting a practice out or, or you're growing a practice or whatever stage you're at, you know, there's a certain level of how can we break it down into smaller goals?
Because each time you hit that goal. You're building yourself up and then you feel good about yourself and you're more likely to do the next thing. And then the next thing is support, you know, getting it from other people and then reminding yourself that you have people around you that support you no matter what, who love you.
And, and internalizing that is important as humans. We always need that interaction with humans and, and connectedness in order to feel good. So, you know, there's several pieces to it.
Gordon: Yeah, you know, one of the things that I've it's been, I've just been real aware of, you know, lately, I I've shared on the podcast that my wife passed away back in November.
And so drawing on support, the support of others and community has just been, Is the only way you can make it through anything. And I think on the other side of that with, you know, kind of the validation is that I think our, our, our toughest critic is the one that's internal. And so, and so being able to.
To, you know, get validation from others. Not that you're trying to please them or build yourself up by that, but getting information from others about how they really see you can change a lot about our own self worth and that sort of thing. Because I think for the most part, most of us are way too critical on ourselves and, you know, What we tell ourselves the story we tell ourselves, as bernie brown puts it it's just you know, most of the time just bullcrap, you know,
Rachelle Heinemann: yeah yeah, and it's interesting because a lot of people go into practice because they're like I don't want another boss in my life.
I want to be my own boss And then they're their worst boss ever.
Gordon: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Well, I know one, one of the things too, we wanted to try to touch on Raquel is we are in the, I think this is a good segue and just thinking about community and being able to network and that being part of our self care and being able to, to to do all, you know, Be able to maintain what we do.
Rachelle Heinemann: Yeah. I think people hear the term networking and some people get excited. Some people, you know, get terrified or it just feels so tedious. Like, Oh, I've got a network. It's a thing that I have to do. They say I have to do it. And so I guess I'll do it, but I don't really like it. And the way that I see it is, you know, building relationships, making friends, if you will.
And I mean, because ultimately, what networking is, is building quality relationships that you maintain over time, and they just deepen. So if you think about, let's say, going to a conference, You can meet with 50 people and all, just have sort of a surface conversation, or you can sit down with one person and have a real in depth conversation and connect with one person.
You come out of that conference after those hundreds of dollars and you made one connection. That I think is the true meaning of networking is building these real, real connections. So. I think when we think about it within the context of business and our personal life, yeah, of course, networking is important, you know, in order to build referrals and whatever else, you know your audience, et cetera.
But I think when we think about taking care of ourselves and making sure that we're not alone in business, especially because one to one work is, it's kind of isolating sometimes. If we do the networking in the way that we're thinking about building friendships. and really deep, meaningful connections.
That's something that nourishes us just as much as it nourishes our business.
Gordon: Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I think that's, that's again, the thing that has been pivotal, pivotal for me in my life or just making those, those connections where there's maybe, you know, there's different levels of, I guess, Intimacy with that.
I mean not necessarily ooh, la, la intimacy, but just intimacy. Yeah. I mean, there's different levels of that. And I think the more that you can kind of share your internal world with people And and then come back with kindness and compassion around that the more that does just to To help you feel more solid and feel more connected.
Rachelle Heinemann: Yeah, because ultimately then that feeling states, even when the connection or the, the actual interaction is over and there's something, you know, going back to the internal validation, there's something that, that when we know that we're supported by our people, it doesn't have to be our best friends. It can be just this network of people that we've built.
We know we belong. We know that we're valued. Those are things that really, you know, make us feel good about ourselves.
Gordon: Yes. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. What sort of parting thoughts would you want to leave for people?
Yeah. Around these topics.
Rachelle Heinemann: I think that a lot of this is about perspective and about how you How you approach doing what you have to do versus what you want to do. So, so, for example, if someone hears the term self care or networking and it feels like a chore, then how can we see this in a slightly different way in that?
What can I do for myself? So if maybe networking can be called, how can I make friends in the field or self care can be called, I don't, I don't even know what, but just something else that speaks to us. So that it's something that we get excited for and that we want to run to do because it lights us up as opposed to something that we have to do, kind of like what everybody says, you know, in marketing and all that stuff.
I think then things become much more intuitive, much more natural, and we get the best out of it in that
Gordon: way. Right. I'm always, as you were saying that, I was reminded of one of my favorite I guess, He's, he's deceased now, but as Joseph Campbell and his his whole quote on follow your bliss. And when you do that, I'm paraphrasing the quote, but when you do that doors will open for you where you didn't even know there were doors.
And so,
Rachelle Heinemann: yeah,
Gordon: yeah. I think, I think being able Figure that out for yourself is such an important piece. And as people hear from me all the time on the podcast too, is knowing your why, understanding your own internal motivation for doing anything that you do.
Rachelle Heinemann: Yeah. And that reminds me of this idea of luck.
Like some people are saying, Oh, this person is so lucky in business. They have so many referrals or whatever it is. And I think that ultimately there is. Sure. A percentage of it that's luck and some people have the personality, but then there's also how many opportunities can you create for yourself that you might be more likely to get lucky in which case, you know, sort of what you're talking about, the doors opening and the quote you know, just, just doing this for yourself creates more opportunities and then you'll, you know, I don't want to use the term lucky, but you can get lucky in those cases.
Yeah.
Gordon: Yes. Yes. Well, Rahel, tell folks how they can get in touch with you. If they want to learn more about you and learn more from you and about your podcast as well.
Rachelle Heinemann: Yeah. So you can either go to my website, that's rachelheinemann. com and you can find everything there. So there's like all my freebies and, and my podcast is there, but you can also follow me on Instagram at rachelheinemann and I hang out there too, or just, you know, on stories.
And the podcast is called understanding disordered eating.
Gordon: That's great. That's great. And we'll have links in the show notes and the show summary for folks to get to that easily. So, well, Rahel, I hope that we can do this again.