The Practice of Therapy

GORDON BREWER: Well, hello everyone, and welcome again to the podcast. And I'm looking forward to you hearing from  Margo Masri. Welcome, Margo. Glad you're here.
MARGO MASRI: Thank you for having me. Y-
GORDON BREWER: yes, and as I start with everyone, tell folks a little bit more about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed.
MARGO MASRI: I'm a mom of two, and I enjoy for free time a lot of nature, exercise, cooking, walking, journaling, meditating, really just enjoying the fruits of life.
I found myself 20 years ago in the heart of money and tax because growing up, money was hard, and it always seemed that things were constricted, and it made people angry. And it always seemed to take a toll on mental health. And from my surroundings and from just talking to people and things that came at me, it really became a beauty of one thing of another of founding Heartfelt CFO and Tax so that I can help practice owners really take their dreams to another level.
GORDON BREWER: Yeah. Yeah. And I know that that is something that has always been a a topic that we've covered a lot of here on this podcast, is just around the financial side of running a private practice and knowing your numbers and all of that sort of thing because I think folks, uh, most of us that are in this field really don't get any training in that along the way, and so there's kind of this, uh, this, uh, a lot of angst around, doing taxes, around how to make your practice profitable and that sort of thing.
And so, um, yeah. And I know as we were chatting before we started recording, there were a few things that we kind of touched on, and I guess maybe a good place to start is, is that I know a lot of people in practice on paper they look profitable, but at the same time they feel like their cash flow is lacking.
You wanna say some things about that as far as what you've learned along the way?
MARGO MASRI: So I remember that spot myself with actually starting my tax practice, and what I found was that until I connected to what the goals of what I really wanted the practice to be and the business to be, did things really shift.
And what do I mean by that? Knowing your company culture, knowing your company values, and- Really connecting to the dots of what actually is missing. So what could be missing? Understanding what your household needs, under-really-standing the payroll costs or just the foundations of business. Lots of times, without really thinking about it or by default, we go into this victim mode and thinking, "Oh, this happened and that happened."
However, we have to take every lesson and see what did really happened and how we can change from that without making this like a mask of that where we wear on ourselves. And when cashflow is tight, I would say the first thing to ask yourself is, "Okay, this is happening. What is the next best step for me to align to help my cashflow move forward today?
What is just the one next step?" There could be 50 things at you, and chances are there's more. However, with the focus of one thing at a time, understanding who your no client is more than your ideal client do will help shift that into a whole nother level to help you in the most wildest way. Now, another thing I wanna say is that what I've noticed in the practice owners is that there's a heavy focus on tax, and there's a heavy focus of not learning it in school.
It's absolutely true. However, if you continue to wear the world on your shoulders, it's not going to change, but if you give yourself the opportunity to take one thing at a time to make the shift, allow support just like you want your clients to get that, you're going- Mm-hmm ... to shift that way, too. And when you make a mistake, mistakes leave clues.
Clues are your keys and your evidence to your next steps. And I wanna say that again. Evidence of mistakes leave us clues, and those clues are your keys to your next steps. There's no master funnel out there that's going to help you from negative to positive or from 600,000 to break a million or from 50,000 to 250,000, wherever you are.
Mm-hmm. But tight cashflow is just something that we just have to align to and say, "Okay, let's not make this the mask that we're wearing and feel like the world is coming down." Mm. Because the world is only gonna come down if we let it. But if you take yourself to that one next step- Calling a doctor, calling a referral, somewhere that you could align on something.
Signing up for a networking event, calling back someone that maybe you thought wasn't an ideal client and you think, "You know what? Okay, let me try one thing different and now I can help them," things will shift. Yeah. And you'd be surprised that with all of these things across time and space, it really helps cash flow.
And I say this too What you think is tying up your cashflow, chances are it is. Mm-hmm. And if it's not, if it's creating this pit in your stomach, chances are it's something that we need to look at, and it's okay. Mm-hmm. But it's what you do from there is really what's key and important.
GORDON BREWER: What do you find that are usually the main culprits of cashflow problems for private practice owners?
MARGO MASRI: Okay. So the number one thing is over-hiring and thinking hiring is always the answer.
The number, the second thing is that not paying attention to taxes, and the third thing is just not paying attention and going into victim mode.
And the word budget scares everyone. However, I invite you to think of a different word that you can align with your money, and think of money like air.
Mm-hmm. Like you breathe outside. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That's money. That's how much money is available. It's a matter of do you really want it? Mm-hmm. Now, if we're going to make money a victim, if we're going to make money part of our anger, if we're going to make money as a vicious friend, it's going to come back at you as a vicious friend.
Yeah. However, if we invite it in and being like, "Okay, this is my ideal client. I can help them," this is way better. But spending from not an aligned place because you think you have to or because you're forced, um, or you don't wanna meet yourself where something is at... And I'll tell you a story. Hmm. Ev- almost every client that comes in comes in with some type of victim story with taxes.
The, and then- Mm-hmm ... it ends up really being not about the taxes. It's more about that the client didn't really align with what was really needed to move the needle.
And instead of wearing this like an armor that you did something wrong, these are your keys and your clues to move the practice forward.
I can only give you the skills, but it's your journey and it's your practice to move. And think of it this way, I didn't go to graduate school to be a therapist. It's a beautiful skill. Mm-hmm. Now, taking that skill and building a team along the way so that you can have a practice that helps people and change things, it is the biggest gift to the world ever.
GORDON BREWER: Yeah. Well, I think a lot of people that go into private practice, um, usually have worked in some sort of agency setting before going into private practice. And you know, just really making that, like you said, that mindset shift of really looking at money as just a tool that we use to get us where we want to go.
And l- I totally agree. I think having clarity about where you wanna go, as I like to say, your why, can make that, make that less difficult for yourself in, in getting there. And also just being able to, uh, educate yourself on, how is paying taxes as a self-employed person different than, um, somebody that's working for somebody else or being an employee of somebody.
It's the best thing you can do. Right. It- it's
MARGO MASRI: the best gift that you can do for yourself, is to understand the self-employment concept versus working for somebody else. Absolutely.
GORDON BREWER: Yeah. And that's a... Yeah, and that's a l- a lot of, a lot of times that's hard for people to kind of get their head around.
You wanna say more about that as far as, you know, what are some of the mindset shifts that people need to make in just thinking- Okay, yeah. Awesome ... yeah. Yeah. Totally.
MARGO MASRI: M- many practice owners are coming in because they've come from some group practice where they felt that they were not making enough money, and they were like, "Okay.
Hey, I can do this myself. I can build a practice. Why am I going to give the owner all of this money? And then now I can just do it myself." But the hard part is is that you have to market yourself, you have to get your ideal client, you have to get a rolling business and all of the different things, decide an office and blah, blah, blah.
Now, the thing of where you're spoiled with a W-2 is that the taxes are taken out. You decide, done.
However, when you work for yourself- It's more unlimited. The possibilities are endless. However, until you really allow yourself to step into that process, it's going to be hard. So let's say you bill $100 an hour.
Let's say roughly it's around 30% that is taxes. However, from that 30%, there are other deductions and there are other strategies that are available. Just like you invested in school, is the same thing with business. We need to invest in business, we need to invest in the right support so that you can have the right guidance.
Now, once you have it. However, if it's the same thing that you're gonna wear on your shoulders that now you're gonna serve all these clients and you're gonna learn tax yourself, you're only gonna do yourself a deficiency, because you're showing up for more that's not really your area of expertise.
Right. But making a decision to go into private practice to serve your clients, whether it's clinical or h- like, h- there's so many different levels. I have one client, when they started, they had, like, 18 specialties. And-
GORDON BREWER: Mm-hmm ...
MARGO MASRI: it was 18 specialties, 18 systems, and then there was, like, subsystems. Mm-hmm.
And I'm not making it wrong or bad, but what happened is that we then need systems within each. So how does this apply back to self-employment or, like, 1099 verse W-2? Because how you hire them and how we pay everybody makes a difference.
GORDON BREWER: Mm-hmm.
MARGO MASRI: And that shift of really knowing that and really just accepting the process, and just looking at the tax law as, "Okay, I'm in business.
This is the structure that has to be." It's a choice if you wanna say no to a client. It's a choice if you wanna say yes. It's a choice if you wanna be in private practice. But the tax law is something we just need to accept as the structure. What you do have the choice is to show up to it in a reactive way or in a proactive way.
Mm-hmm. And I would say the few things that I would like you to think about is, okay, now you're working for yourself. You're gonna lose money. Because you may not learn all of the lessons right away.
However, not making that your mask and saying like, "Okay, these are my keys and my clues to the next steps.
Now I get to shift and change." Mm-hmm. And I think of this as like the comeback rate. How quickly can you come back? How quickly can you shift to make that next best change in your practice?
And as it's coming to you personally, and it, and at all costs, that's where knowing your costs becomes foundational and not an option, so that these things are not, "Oh my gosh, an LLC is money?
A nurse corp is money?" It is. Just like you need to eat, just like you need to- Mm-hmm ... rent an office and all of these other things, but these are the things that hold your business. And once you realize, too, and literally just work to accept it, or even just an inch, it protects you. Because when a client cancels or things of that nature, it becomes less about that and more about upholding the structure.
Mm-hmm. So when you appreciate structures to hold you forward, and it do- it won't matter because you've mastered the structure, you've mastered your ideal client, so no matter where you are with the taxes, you're going to make money.
And some practices master by volume, some master by quality, some by quantity.
There's all different ones. Mm-hmm. And I'm not making one right or the other. It's a matter of at the end of the day, it's really tracking your costs.
And it's just taking it, "Okay, I used to do this. Now I need to do that." And you may lose money. It happens.
But it's not to say that you ca- if you made that happen that time, let's just do it again.
GORDON BREWER: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, one, one of the things I know in just doing consulting with people, one of the, uh, particularly people that are maybe in the very beginning stages of starting a practice is, um, really, uh, as you said a minute ago, about being proactive about things in terms of making sure you've got enough in reserve to kind of float you through the times when maybe the cash flow is a little lower, or maybe there's things that come up to where, you know, whether you might get sick or maybe you might, uh, lose an employee or, all of those kinds of things can really kind of add to the stress.
But I think if you got a buffer there of, um... i'll usually recommend a minimum a- a minimum of three to six months worth of income and, uh, what you pay everybody saved away so that you can cover those, those things as they come up.
MARGO MASRI: That's great advice. However- Mm-hmm ... I also encourage you to open up some type of line of credit as a backup.
Mm-hmm. I also encourage that you understand where you're at on credit cards so that if you are behind a little bit, that you have a plan for that. Another thing is also is that understanding your timing of payments so that you could align where clients are paying you so that you can align bills.
That is a huge thing that will help you. Um- Right ... always putting money away is always helpful. However, it's just going to be that there are crunches. It's not a- Mm-hmm ... reflection that maybe h- you could have, that you're bad or wrong, and chances are there is something that you could do better.
However, without making it the end zone and the courtroom to the journey, instead we have to see what's the lesson and what's the lemons of the juice that you can really take from this to move- Mm-hmm ... the needle forward. And- Right ... I say this to say, too, is that the more you give yourself the grace across the lessons, the better it will be, and your clients will also stay.
And the journey of people staying and going, it's natural. However, the more we show up where we give it grace and doing our best. So what do I mean by that? Within your control is what you know you're actually doing is really the best lesson that you can give.
GORDON BREWER: Yeah, that's, uh, that, that's so important is to be able to, um, treat mistakes as lessons rather than just mistakes or failures.
Uh, I think that's just
MARGO MASRI: really- It's so hard.
GORDON BREWER: Yeah, it really is. It
MARGO MASRI: is so hard.
It is so hard. Yeah. I'm learning an expensive lesson right now. However, I look at my future self, and I'm like, "Okay, is this serving where I'm going, or is this- Mm-hmm ... holding me back?" And-
GORDON BREWER: Right ...
MARGO MASRI: what I'm in the middle of is holding me back, and I say this to say, too, is that sometimes it's not always about today.
And letting go a little bit for that room, something better is always on its way.
GORDON BREWER: Yeah. So, I, yeah, and one, one thing, um, I know we discussed a little bit about before we started recording is, you know, the crucial financial decisions that every practice mowner- owner has to kinda make along the way.
I know one that comes to mind for me is the decision whether or not to accept insurance, and that's a whole topic in and of itself. But, uh, what are, what are you seeing as the way, the things that people need to... You know, what decisions are they gonna need to make that maybe they can do with confidence just by, with their prep?
MARGO MASRI: Decide what you need to live on
GORDON BREWER: Mm-hmm
MARGO MASRI: That's really the, the core, is know what you need to live on so that when the shifts and changes happen, you're prepared
And when you prepared for yourself first around just foundational expenses, then what else happens around there is going to be less reactive that it's building
GORDON BREWER: Mm-hmm
MARGO MASRI: At each stage, giving yourself space and room to work through things versus deciding because you have to is a big deal
Now, when you go to hire, or actually before that, usually clients I see that they have this bigger need to rent an office before actually knowing that their expenses are paid well.
And if you are struggling to pay your expenses, adding a rent that you're legally in this contract for, it's something that's owed no matter how your business is doing. So you have- Mm-hmm ... to realize what decisions are really non-negotiable. Like water and air, those are non-negotiable. Mm-hmm. So if you sign the legal agreement, it's a non-negotiable.
If you bring on someone with payroll, it is falling into the level of non-negotiable. So really just applying basic concepts with your decisions around how you're taking them on and timing. And I close with bringing this together, is expectations. You know? Mm-hmm Really knowing the expectations of what you want.
Entrepreneurship can be beautiful, but it also can be an horror But the more you sit with it and say, "Okay, I'm looking at this, and this happened," and then you rework through that area and not make business the whole thing that's going to shut down, you can have a business for the next 50 years. But the longer you leave something, the longer those problems will just make it worse.
And I'll tell you a story. Mm-hmm. I have clients who have come in at 3 million, 300,000, and 50,000, and that same accounting system is the same system that is going with them. But the clients at three million quickly are dropping because their expectations of a system that's for, like, $100,000 business, they're taking with them.
And the thing is, is that it's not. You need a bigger architecture of what's going to hold the business. And the sooner that you realize that it's not taking money from your pocket, it's more about protecting you, there's so much further that you can get. Mm-hmm. And it's really time and time again, I see clients that have 300,000, three million, five million even, and they're taking the same system and expecting the same thing.
And the more you align with, the more you go, that you're going to change things. And I say this also, this area is an incredible opportunity to work out a business plan.
So that when things shift and change, that area of business, you have more of a control than necessarily feeling like, "Okay, I grew."
Mm-hmm. "Now I need, now I need." Maybe not. Are you maximizing schedules, you know? Mm-hmm. Is somebody needing to shift and change things? Could somebody be more online than necessarily needing bigger office space? I had one client who she just had office space open, and I was like, "Rent it."
"You're killing yourself. You can't pay yourself, and you have all this office space. Have someone where they're just paying you the rent." And she was like, "Oh, I can make more money because if they work for me," blah, blah, blah. But then you have the pressure of bringing her a whole client deck.
So sometimes you just need the plug or the Band-Aid, and- Mm-hmm
it's okay because it's a- Yeah ... reliable source. And I say this to say is, is that money is something to work to be intimate, and I wanna close this area by giving an example. Mm. Imagine sleeping next to your money, right? Mm-hmm. Like, your bank account, if it has $50,000, like, $50 million, and all these things are going on in your head.
Is it gonna wanna sleep next to you? Or is it gonna be like, "Ew, whoa." Mm-hmm. "You were, like, yelling at me today. You were, like, going crazy at me and saying I did this, I did that." No. We wanna be like, "Okay, I got this." And shift and change to the next step.
GORDON BREWER: Yeah. That's, uh, so important. I thi- and I think it's, um, again, it go- all goes to mindset and how we think about money, and just, um, 'cause a lot of us get handed a lot of, uh, different messages about money as we're growing up, and really just being, um, grounded in your why, as we've said already, about why you're doing what you're doing, and then, le- being clear on what it is that you need from your business or from your practice in order to sustain yourself.
And then-
MARGO MASRI: You need to- Or- The why needs to be stronger than the money. Yes. If the money is stronger than the why, then you're in a need stage. If you're in a need- Mm-hmm ... stage, nothing is happening. Imagine when your kid is whining. You're kind of like, "Okay," like, "go take a nap." But-
GORDON BREWER: Mm-hmm ...
MARGO MASRI: if you're at the money and you're connected to your why and your purpose and your values, and you're just helping, it comes.
GORDON BREWER: Right.
MARGO MASRI: It's a whole different shift if you're like, "I need, I need, I need, I need, I need," and we're forcing- Mm-hmm ... and pushing. Or, okay, let's just put ease by the constrictedness and be like- Mm-hmm ... okay, this is only the season I'm at right now.
GORDON BREWER: Yeah.
MARGO MASRI: Eventually- Yeah ... it needs to shift and change.
GORDON BREWER: Right. I love that. And that's a, that's a term I use a lot, is just, uh, the season of life we're in, and being able to just adjust and recognize that it's not permanent, but it's, uh, it's ever-changing and ever-evolving. So yeah. Yeah. So that's great. Well, Margo, I've gotta be respectful of your time and, um, everything.
Uh, tell folks how they can get in touch with you and a little bit about what you offer folks with your, with your business.
MARGO MASRI: So you can see me on Instagram at heartfeltcfo. Um, my website is also margomassery.com. We've also given a gift for today's listeners and all those maybe who are going to run through the episode.
Mm. Please enjoy our gift. Our services are about tax planning, bookkeeping, cashflow, CFO services. It's meeting your business where you're at. So what do I mean by that? Instead of having coaching separate, tax returns, tax planning, and all of this, we've built systems where we incorporate it. So it's clarity, structure, scale.
Mm-hmm. Helping you get clear, build the structure so that you can scale. And this system I've been using for over 10 years with clients, and when you follow this on auto-repeat, there's nothing that you can't accomplish. So-
GORDON BREWER: Mm-hmm ...
MARGO MASRI: I hope you enjoyed today. Mm-hmm. If there's more questions even that you're just remotely curious about, and whether you're ready or not ready, I would still love to talk to you- Yeah, sure
and share what I can to help.
GORDON BREWER: Yeah. Yes. And we'll have links here in the show notes, in the show summary, as always, for people to get to that easily. So well, thanks, Margo, and, uh, we'll, uh, hopefully be talking to you again.
MARGO MASRI: I would love that. Thanks again. Have a good day.