The Practice of Therapy

[00:00:00] Julie Herres: I'd like to say that my superpower is seeing the story within the numbers, right? So if I'm looking at a profit and loss, I can see the story of what's happening in in a small business, and specifically I work with therapists in private practice.
[00:00:12] Gordon Brewer: This episode is sponsored by therapy notes, therapy notes.com.
Be sure and check them out and be sure and use the promo code Gordon, G-O-R-D-O-N, and you can try them out for two months for free.
For the past 20 plus years, I've been working in the mental health field as a licensed therapist, private practice owner, coach, and consultant, and I've learned a lot the hard way, and I don't think you need to do the same. Hi there. I'm Gordon Brewer and welcome to the Practice of Therapy Podcast, part of the Site Craft Network, a podcast, whether you're just starting out, expanding your practice or looking for fresh inspiration, this podcast is here to support you in your journey.
Each week we explore the real world challenges and opportunities that come with. Building and growing your private practice from marketing and money management to ethics, client care, and self-care. We cover it all. You'll hear from leading experts, seasoned clinicians, and innovative voices in the mental health and allied health fields, all sharing their insights and strategies to help you thrive in your practice.
So let's jump in and get to today's f. Episode of The Practice of Therapy Podcast.
Well, hello friends, and welcome to the podcast. This is episode number 4 0 4. Of the Practice of Therapy podcast. I'm Gordon Brewer and so glad you've joined us for this particular episode. You know, in this episode I've got my dear friend Julie Harris joining me again and she's got some exciting news of a new book that she's launching.
It's a, actually a workbook. She wrote the book about two years ago, profit First for Therapist, which is absolutely. The go-to guide for understanding the financial side of your practice and really knowing how to set things up in a way that's gonna be sustainable for your practice. But she's put together this phenomenal workbook, and if you've been on my email list for a while, you would know about that because I've been sharing that there, it's gonna be launching this next, this next week actually, is, I believe, as this episode comes out.
But one of the things that she's offering with this is a book club. And so we, we mentioned that at the end of this particular episode, but I just wanna put a plug in there for that here at the very beginning. If you'll go over to profit. First for therapist.com/workbook. That's the landing page that Julie has set up, and you can, if you purchase the book through that landing page, you can get access to the book club for free.
So be sure and check that out. But before we get to my interview with Julie, one of the things too I'd love for you to do is go over to my website, practice a therapy.com, and if you're interested in working with me one-on-one in your. In your journey and really helping you get some help along the way, I'd love to work with you on that.
So if you'll go over to practice of therapy.com and just click on the button there that says Coaching and consulting, and that'll get you to the landing page to learn more about that. But I love working with people individually and helping 'em. Navigate all the ins and outs of running a practice, whether you're just getting started or if you are looking to scale your practice.
Maybe you're a solo practitioner and you want to go to the next level of adding clinicians, that sort of thing. I'd love to work with you on that, so be sure and check that out. And also before we get to my conversation with Julie, I'd love for you to hear more about Therapy Notes. They are the sponsor of this podcast and absolutely couldn't work in my practice without 'em.
So, and Julie also, I will mention her podcast is Therapy for Your Money, which is also part of the Site Craft Network. So here we go with this episode of The Practice of Therapy Podcast.
[00:04:58] Whitney Owens: Hi, I'm Whitney Owens. If you don't know me, I am the person behind the Wise Practice Podcast, which is part of the Site Craft Network of podcasts. I am so proud to be a part of this network, along with my good friend Gordon Brewer, who's doing such amazing work on helping people on their practice journey.
If you haven't discovered The Wise Practice Podcast yet, you can find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. I'd love for you to join us as we explore how to grow a faith-based practice that brings you the income you need and the lifestyle you want. Be sure to check out the podcast and other helpful information@whitneyowens.com.
[00:05:34] Rachel Bond: Hi, this is Rachel Gordon's podcast assistant and I wanna share the platform. Gordon Trusts for his own practice therapy notes. Therapy Notes is the highest rated EHR practice management and billing software for mental health professionals. It's an all-in-one system for scheduling notes, billing, and secure client communication.
And if you ever need help, their 24 7 customer service is always just a call or email away their latest update therapy fuel. Uses AI to streamline documentation, generating progress notes, creating contact notes from client messages. And even summarizing client history forms saving therapists hours every week.
Are you ready to give it a try? Head to therapy notes.com. Click start My Free trial and use the code Gordon to get your first two months free. See why Therapy Notes is the most trusted EHR and the one Gordon chooses for his practice. Please enjoy the rest of the show.
[00:06:50] Gordon Brewer: Well, hello everyone, and I'm, I'm really, you know, this is an understatement, but I'm so glad to have. Julie Harris back with me on the on the show, and Julie is no stranger to this podcast. And also Julie has her own podcast Therapy for Your Money. So check that out. But Julie, welcome again to the podcast.
Thanks for
[00:07:13] Julie Herres: having me. Always a pleasure to hang out with you, Gordon.
[00:07:16] Gordon Brewer: Yeah, the same. The same. I can say absolutely the same. So for those that might not know you, Julie, tell 'em a little more about yourself. And how you've landed, where you've landed.
[00:07:27] Julie Herres: Yes, I am Julie Harris. I am first and foremost an accountant.
I'm a lover of numbers. Numbers are my jam. I like to say that my superpower is seeing the story within the numbers, right? So if I'm looking at a profit and loss, I can see the story of what's happening in in a small business. And specifically I work with therapists in private practice. That's what my team and I have done for.
Almost 10 years now. And so we've had this really, really unique view under the hood of thousands of private practices. And so we know what makes them tick or not financially at least. Mm-hmm. And, and what makes a practice work. So because of that, that work on, in my accounting firm, I've also written Profit First for Therapist, which guides folks to implement Profit First in their private practice.
And now today, I'm happy to share the. Profit First for therapists workbook, which is really a companion to the original book. We, you know, I, I left nothing out of the original book, but there's still so much granularity in actual implementation, so I wanted to have an additional guide that really helped people work through kind of step by step, lots more examples, troubleshooting, you know, all kinds of different special situations.
I wanted to be able to cover that, and that's what I did in the workbook here.
[00:08:40] Gordon Brewer: Yes. Yes. And, and Julie was so kind to send me a copy of it as well, and I've been going through it and folks, it is, I mean, for what she's charging for this, I told her earlier she needs to charge more for it. But this book is packed full of just so many great ways to think about your finances and just like, like you said, Julie, it really does walk you through step by step.
Of how to think about profit first and all of that. And as I tell people that I consult with, you know, you one, one of the first things you need to do when thinking about the financial side of your private practice is read profit first for therapists, because that's gonna give you the foundation to just make all of it fit together and make your practice sustainable for the long haul.
So, yeah, so thanks for putting this together. Of
[00:09:38] Julie Herres: course, of course. Yeah. The, the interesting thing is Profit First as a system, right, is a cashflow management system, but. And, and, and sometimes it might feel secondary to, to a business, right? Well, like, well, well, I need to figure out the other things before I figure out the money.
And that's often not the case, right? Because for, for most of us here in sitting, in reality, a practice is something that needs to generate money for you to live, right? You're not doing it for most people just for fun, or as a hobby, you're doing it to. To, to sustain your life. It, it, it needs to generate cash to pay you.
And so when you're setting up the financial pieces properly from the, the beginning or from wherever you are at, you know, at any point in your private practice, like you are set up for success, for sustainable practice, one that can pay you one where, you know, how much do I need for taxes, how much can I afford to pay my team?
When should I add leadership? What about admin? Right? Like you have kind of a blueprint financially for a practice and what is normal and what's not as well, right? Because that's one of the questions that we get so much in my accounting firm is like, what are other people doing? What's normal? And so Profit First can really give you a framework for, based on the size of your practice, right, how much money is generating, how many team members are in it.
What can you generally expect? Is your profit good or could it be better? Right? Mm-hmm. Like, is what you're expecting from your practice reasonable or you expecting something that your practice is not capable of generating for you? Right. It can help you answer all of the, all of those pieces. Yeah.
[00:11:11] Gordon Brewer: Right, right.
And the thing I love about Profit First, and for those of you that might not be familiar with the term Profit First, it's based on the, or the original author of the book. Profit First. Mike Michalowicz's book where he really, it's really a relu, you know, a groundbreaking, in my mind. Revolutionary way. Yeah.
Of thinking about finances and just accounting and all of that kind of thing. It's really an allocation system. Yes. In other words, you, rather than looking at. Trying to figure out a budget based on number on dollar amounts, you base it on percentages. Mm-hmm. And, and when I grasp that concept that's kinda like, oh man, this is so much easier, easier way to think about it.
And then just also having multiple buckets that you put things into to protect your practice and also make you profitable. So, I mean, it's just, yeah.
[00:12:07] Julie Herres: Yeah. Yeah. So the, the, the, the basic premise is that. For most small businesses, right? You have income coming in and then profit is a leftover, right? Income minus expenses equals profit.
That's the traditional accounting equation. Mm-hmm. And profit is the, is an afterthought. It's like if there's something left over, that will be what I will pay myself from, right? For most small businesses, and so within profit, first we turn that upside down and we say income minus profit equals expenses.
We're building in money for you as the owner. Some profit, money for taxes. We're building all those pieces in. So that then you have a number for expenses and, and you generally know. Here's what I have available to me to spend. Right? Because I think that's a big conundrum for so many business owners is like, how much should I be spending on software or rent or all of these other things Like you, you're just kind of guessing.
Mm-hmm. And so we take a lot of that guessing out by saying, you can still use your values. Right? If you have this much allocated to. Payroll, for example, you, you can decide like, how does that get split? Is it a few people making more money and then a couple of interns? Is it everyone getting the same?
Right? Like you can still do things that are consistent with your, your values and your priorities in the, in the practice, but it's still giving you some guidelines, right? And so some practices might decide. I'm gonna spend more in payroll and less in overhead because I'm gonna to to spend more in payroll.
I have to be really lean over there. And that's a choice that you can make, right? Mm-hmm. But it's a choice. It's not something that just happens to you. It is an intentional choice that you can make. And so you've got those guardrails that help you stay in ranges that are gonna make their practice healthy ultimately.
[00:13:44] Gordon Brewer: Right? And it's the whole what Parkinson's law principle, and that you, yes, you will. Whatever you set your expenses at, you will fill that. Yes. And so you limit what you fill it to.
[00:13:59] Julie Herres: Yep. So the, the Parkinson's law says what the demand for something will rise to meet its availability. Right? Mm-hmm. And so when you think of it from a pers from money, if you have a bunch of money in your bank account, you're gonna figure out a way to spend it most of the time.
Mm-hmm. Right. For most people, that's going to be the case. Not everyone, but most people, including me, right? Oh, sure, sure. Include, I'm an accountant. I can look at all the reports, but I don't leave a whole lot of money in my checking account. I just don't. Mm-hmm. Personally and in the business because like, it's just easy for that to erode over time, so,
[00:14:29] Gordon Brewer: right.
[00:14:29] Julie Herres: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:14:30] Gordon Brewer: Yeah, that's it. That's great. That's great. So with the workbook, you wanna maybe kind of take us through Julie, kind of how you've got it broken down within the workbook? I was just looking over Yeah. Just before we started talking again. And the There are. Let's see, there are 10 chapters. Mm-hmm.
And the, the book is just absolutely full of worksheets and formulas and ways for you to reflect and, and write down your ideas and, uh, talking about the emotional side of money and all of that kind of stuff. So, yeah. Yeah. Tell us how, how you kind of got it broken down.
[00:15:09] Julie Herres: Okay. So I kind, I, I, I go over the basics of profit first, right?
It's meant to be a companion to the book, but I imagine some people will come to the workbook having read profit first or therapist maybe a, a little while ago, right? The book has been out for over two years. Maybe you read it a while ago. So just quick refresher so that we're all on the same page. And then I actually changed the order around a little bit in the original book.
I do have a. Lifestyle worksheet that helps you kind of think about what life, what kind of life do you want? But it's in the later chapters. In the original book and in the workbook, it comes first because a lot of folks were not, we're not doing it, but I think it's an important piece to kind of think about.
What kind of life are you building? And there's no right or wrong answer here, right? It's just mm-hmm. What is it for you? What do you need to contribute to, to your household? Some people are gonna be in a single income household, others a, a two income household, like the, your, your needs are gonna vary depending on the, the, you know, the phase of your life as well.
And, and, and that's okay. And you should build a business that's going to support that. So I start there where we can start thinking about what do you need personally to be okay, right? Without the context of the business in mind. So that way we can work on reverse engineering a business. That will support that.
Right. And it might be kind of the minimum you need or it might be the nice to have. Right. And we can work towards, towards that. And it's very possible that the business is not able to do that right now. Mm-hmm. But then you have some cold, hard numbers that tell you like, this is what needs to be true for what you want to be possible.
And Gordon, I just feel like there's so much. Relief in that. Right. And just knowing, yeah. It's not this like fictional, imaginary thing that might be happen at some point in the future. Like you can put some numbers, clinicians in number of sessions, like you can know exactly what needs to be true mm-hmm.
For this life that you imagine and want to be possible. And I think that's just a, a, a gift and a burden removed Right. To, to know that.
[00:17:04] Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:05] Julie Herres: Another thing I put into the, the, the workbook is a new method for completing the incident assessment. I, I, I, I think you know this, but just in case your listeners don't, after I start, after I, I launched the book in May, 2023.
I. My team and I also launched a, a membership group called Profit First Academy. Where mm-hmm. For folks who want more support, right. Want to work directly on with my team and be able to have one-on-ones with my team and workshops with me. They can work with my team directly to support Profit First Academy.
So within, within that academy. And there's just a lot of lessons learned. We've had the hundreds of people come through the academy since then, and just we've learned a lot about where people get stuck. Right. And so that was one of my goals with the workbook is where people get stuck, getting stuck and how can we help get them unstuck and, and keep them moving within the assessment, right?
Mm-hmm. And, and so one of the issues was a lot of folks did not have reliable financials, right? Because I came at it from the perspective of my accounting firm. When we're implementing profit First with our clients, of course they have reliable financials, they're working with us.
[00:18:13] Gordon Brewer: Right.
[00:18:13] Julie Herres: But a lot of people out there, they may be just so early in their practice, they haven't started working with a, an accountant.
They're doing it on their own and their numbers aren't quite accurate. Right? Like they, they were making mistakes and it's not a big deal, but they were just struggling with that. So I go over a new way of completing the instant assessment just with bank and credit card statements. So you don't even need a profit and loss and a balance sheet you can just use.
Mm-hmm. Your statements to complete the instant assessment. So just kind of making it that much easier. And I have two examples with like a, a fake bank statement going through line by line, how, how to do that. Right. I wanted to really get nitty gritty here.
[00:18:54] Gordon Brewer: Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, uh, yeah. You know, the thing is, is like people hear from me and they hear from you.
I know too, Julie is the importance of knowing your numbers. And I think. A lot of times people are really intimidated by that, but really it's just a matter of, like you said, just looking at your bank statements, looking at where the money is going in, where it's coming out, and just understanding how all that works together.
[00:19:23] Julie Herres: Yeah. Yeah. And, and the bank statements don't lie, right? Where your profit and loss, my area might be hiding some things, right? Especially if you forgot some stuff or made a mistake. But the bank statements are gonna tell you like, here's exactly what happened last month, right? And it's always in arrears.
That's okay. But it will tell you what happened. Um, mm-hmm. So that's a really, a reliable way of looking at, you know, what is the debt in the business? How much are you actually paying yourself? Right. It won't, it won't hide things from you. It's all right. All there. Right, right. In plain sight. So I, I tried to make that.
Even easier. Um mm-hmm. And I also included Gordon three chapters on troubleshooting the instant assessment. Again, just because of all of our experience in Profit First Academy, what, where are the places that people get get stuck? And that's often in moments of transition in a practice, right? Mm-hmm. So for example.
Moving from a solo practice to hiring your first employee, that's a big change, right? If you're going from one to two people, you're doubling the business essentially. Yeah. It's normal for things to change and the business to need something different. What if you are, you know, have 12 clinicians and you lose five in one single week?
I don't wish that on anyone, but we've seen that happen a lot in of years, right? Mm-hmm. Like sometimes that happens. So how do you. Course correct. Of course. What was working with 12 clinicians no longer is true with seven, right? Mm-hmm. You probably have infrastructure that's built for a much larger team.
So how do you adjust both temporarily and long term, right? So what are some of the things that you do in the immediate, right, like this weekend versus what are the next 90 days going to look like? So I wanted to go through some really detailed examples in some of those situations. I have an example for.
A transition from an LLC to an S corporation. 'cause that's something that comes up often. Mm-hmm.
[00:21:13] Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm. Right?
[00:21:14] Julie Herres: Where it's, it makes sense and you wanna do it, but then there's the mechanics of like, well. Now I'm on payroll. How do all of these pieces work together? So just, I, I just wanted to go over a lot more detail.
Adding a revenue stream, right? What does that look like? It's not just your practice anymore. There's other things going on. Fluctuating income, fluctuating cash flow. What do you do and how do you adjust the system? Mm-hmm. And so I wanted that to just be really clear and provide more examples and also ways to.
To reflect on what's going on in the business as well.
[00:21:50] Gordon Brewer: Right, right. And I know one of the things, a big struggle, you know, the, the biggest expense I would say for any practice is what, what you pay your people. Yes. And really having some clear understanding of, okay. What is, you know, what is fair to pay.
Mm-hmm. Pay them, but also what is sustainable to pay them. And I know you and I have talked about this numerous times Yeah. About the mistakes I made early on. You're in, I'm just really in the book.
[00:22:18] Julie Herres: You're in the book about it. Yeah, yeah,
[00:22:20] Gordon Brewer: yeah. So, I mean, it's just real easy to let those of us that are therapists, we really, we really do have a big heart for people and we really want to treat our people well.
Mm-hmm. And I think a lot of times we. We will make the mistake of, oh, well, I want to treat them well. I want to be generous. I want to make this a great place to work and pay pay fairly. But if you don't do it the right way and you don't understand the numbers and what is really realistic, you can very quickly.
Dig a hole for yourself. Yes. With that. Yeah.
[00:22:55] Julie Herres: Yeah. And I actually get a decent amount of online hate for saying that you cannot overpay your clinicians. So I get some nasty messages. Interesting. Yeah. And, and yet Gordon, I'm still gonna keep fighting the good fight. Right. And I, I, I suspect that most of the mess messages come from people who have.
Worked at an agency or a group practice and that they feel like they are not being PA paid enough. Right. And, and mm-hmm. And that's, that's valid. And I, yeah. I am the, I will be the first to say the industry as a whole is not paid enough, right? Mm-hmm. The reimbursement rates mm-hmm for mental health are not enough, period.
Full stop. Like you, you have my full support there, and yet that doesn't give us a pass on, on math, right? Mm-hmm. And if you're building a business. It is in service to no one to build a business where you're gonna have to remortgage your house to keep it open and mm-hmm. And lose everything that you have.
And I've seen that happen, unfortunately. Mm-hmm. Right. If, if it doesn't get corrected in time, like. A, a practice owner could literally go bankrupt trying to, you know, just the whole just keeps getting bigger and bigger and harder to get out of. Mm-hmm. And they start taking, you know, the business equivalent of payday loans with a 34% interest rate.
I saw that just yesterday. My team was, was mentioning that like, those exist out there, but you take that loan to save you, you know, today because payroll's due in two days. And it is a whole, that just is very, very difficult to get out of because you need so much more money to get out of it. Mm-hmm. Um, so I just think it's, it's in service to everyone.
If you can set up a structure that is, that is fair to your team, you're, you're, mm-hmm. You're, no matter what you pay your team, they're never gonna feel like they're overpaid. Right. That's probably never gonna be, and in any industry, they're never gonna say like, oh yeah, they pay me too much. I, I don't deserve it.
No. Mm-hmm. They're always gonna want more. In any industry that you look at. But the business has to be able to turn a profit. Like that's just how capitalism works, like it or not, right? Mm-hmm. And even nonprofits work that way, right? I know you're, you're involved with many nonprofits, like ultimately nonprofit has to generate more revenue than they spend or else they will also Absolutely.
[00:25:07] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Not
[00:25:08] Julie Herres: survive, right? So, mm-hmm. It might not be taxable income, or you might not call it profit, but they still have to bring in more money than, than the money that goes out. That's just how Right. Math works, right? And so we've gotta be able to set up a practice in a way that will be overall sustainable.
And I just believe that's in service to the the clinicians, because then that means they have a job next week, next month, next year. It's in service to your clients because the practice remains open and can still continue to have a high impact on the community, right? If your business closes and you burn out and you go.
You know, be at Cashier Trader Joe's because that feels easier and you make more money than you did in private practice. That helps no one.
[00:25:48] Gordon Brewer: Right, right, right. Yeah. And it's, it's real easy to, I know like you, you told about in your book the story that I had around, I realized that what I was paying my people was too much mm-hmm.
To sustain it, and I was having to pay them out of what I was making. In order to sustain the payroll. Yeah. And so again, it's, yeah. Something that, yeah.
[00:26:14] Julie Herres: Yeah. I mean, let's talk about that a little bit more. 'cause like you were seeing more clients
[00:26:19] Gordon Brewer: mm-hmm. To
[00:26:19] Julie Herres: generate revenue so that you could pay your team members.
Right. You were not even seeing that revenue. You were just, you were working harder as a group, right. Practice owner. Mm-hmm. So that you could pay your team members in that. Mm-hmm. Is so backwards, but you were definitely not alone in that. So many people end up in that spot by accident, right?
[00:26:40] Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. And actually, what, what, what the, you know, the end of that story or the, the redemption of that story is I went back and reworked everything, moved from having contractors to having employees. They actually benefited more because now they were getting benefits that they didn't have before.
Yeah. They were paying less taxes than what they were having to pay before, and what I was paying them was a sustainable number for the practice based on the actual numbers of what was coming in and what was going out and so, yeah. And so rather than just coming up with some kind of random percentage, which is what I did.
[00:27:24] Julie Herres: Yeah. Yeah. A lot of times, like, you know, we're recording this in, in 2025. A lot of, a lot of times I, I see new group practice owners in Facebook groups saying, Hey, I'm hiring my first person, how much should I pay them? And like, people chime in right? With various opinions, you know, their own context and. It terrifies me to see that, because you never know mm-hmm.
What's actually going on behind that. Right. Someone might say, oh, I'm paying my person 70% or 80%. I, I mean, I've seen ac I've actually seen a hundred percent, which is insane. Mm-hmm. But, um, what the, the, the, while they're sharing this information, they're not saying, have you. Have you made any money this year?
Are you paying yourself? Right? Because mm-hmm. It's basically impossible. With an 80% split there, there is no room. Right. I will say like Right. 80% cannot work in any circumstance. It just can't. Mm-hmm. Uh, 80%, especially as a W2, ends up costing you close to 90%. There's no room left for overhead, let alone any profit.
Like it's, it's not possible to make that work. And yet there are people offering that. On a regular basis and mm-hmm. I don't know how they're gonna make it. I hope they have the Secret Trust Fund somewhere to sustain this practice. Mm-hmm. Because like the, the, the numbers don't work.
[00:28:45] Gordon Brewer: Right, right. Yeah.
Yeah. So, yeah. And so profit. Yeah. Going, getting back to our, you know, profit First. Profit first really helps with that in that, you know. Uh, based on your experience, Julie, of working with different size practices Yeah. Over a long period of time, knowing if you've got this size practice, then your allocation for employees should be at about this percentage.
Yes. And, and, you know, and as a, as you go up and the numbers of people, of course that changes some, but still it's based on the numbers. Yeah.
[00:29:22] Julie Herres: And all that is in the book too, right? We, we hide nothing. Mm-hmm. So in the book, we will give you allocations for operating expenses, which is really overhead, right.
Your rent software. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, all the thing, all the costs to, to running your business, phone, fax, whatever. We give you allocations for. Clinician compensation. Mm-hmm. So that's wages, payroll, tax and benefits. Like where does that need to be to make sense for administrative compensation? So that would be your, you know, either your, your biller intake, right.
Whatever positions you have. Mm-hmm. Virtual assistant, all those can go under there. We have leadership as well. So leadership typically doesn't show up until about a million dollars in annual revenue. But usually at that point you need site supervisor, clinical director. Right. Not someone that's a hundred percent.
Leadership, they're still having mm-hmm. Holding a clinical load, but they're doing some leadership work. And then we have also allocations for how much you pay yourself as the owner, how much you're saving for taxes, and then profit as well. Right. And, and profit ends up having double duty. It's part emergency fund and part reward.
Right. So typically what we do is you contribute to that profit account and they're all, all different bank accounts. Typically, you're going to have either five or six. Separate business bank accounts in the business, five for solo practices, six four for group practices. And on a regular basis, you're gonna move money to those business bank accounts based on that percentage, right?
So that you always know, this is how much I have to spend for overhead or operating expenses. This is how much is available for, you know, all the different things. So what we have a lot of folks do is, for example, build a balance in their owner's pay account to cover. There's sick time, right? As the owner, you don't officially get sick time, but you're probably gonna get sick at some point and have to cancel Uhhuh, or you know, take a vacation, right?
Like all those things so that you can still pay yourself during that time. We've had clients. Pad that account for a maternity leave so they're still able to pay themselves while they're on leave. Right? And, and so when we look at that profit account, money is going to build over time. At the end of each quarter, you leave half of the money in there as an emergency account, right.
Just in case something happens. Because in small business, things will happen and then you take the rest of it home as a reward. And so with that, you can do, can take your. You know, spouse, friend, family, out for a nice dinner. You can go on a little weekend getaway. I've had clients use it for like a Rolex fund or a house fund or whatever.
[00:31:54] Gordon Brewer: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:55] Julie Herres: A Gucci bag. Fun. Like whatever is the thing that you wanna reward yourself with. Knock yourself out. That is like extra money, right? Above and beyond what it takes to run. Mm-hmm. Run your household. I'm, I'm curious to hear from you, Gordon, what have you, what's the funnest thing that you have done with your profit money?
[00:32:13] Gordon Brewer: Well, this past year, I mean, in August I went to Scotland. That's, yes,
[00:32:18] Julie Herres: you have been doing a lot of,
[00:32:19] Gordon Brewer: and then I've got a trip to Patagonia planned January, so, okay.
[00:32:25] Julie Herres: Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Like what a fun thing where you get this kind of bonus from the business, like what are we gonna do with it? This is, I mean, yeah.
I mean, how rewarding.
[00:32:35] Gordon Brewer: Yeah.
[00:32:35] Julie Herres: And business ownership is not easy, right? Uhhuh. It's not for the faint of heart. So you should be rewarded for the hard work Yeah. That you put in. Oh, absolutely. Hey, absolutely.
[00:32:46] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. Well, Julie, I, I guess we better keep an eye on our time, but, uh, yes. And you, you and I as usual, we could spend hours talking about all this stuff We could, kinda like we did before we even started recording.
So, but yeah, just catching up. But tell folks the best way to get the book and how to get in touch with you.
[00:33:06] Julie Herres: Yes, absolutely. So for the book, you can go to profit first for therapist.com. It's also available, it's in paperback only because I want you to be able to write in it, right? This is, mm-hmm. This is eight and a half by 11, so it's really meant to be.
Read, you know, with Post-its with a pen so you can write directly in it. It is sold everywhere that books are sold online, so Amazon, barns and Noble, A lot of the online websites Will will have it. You can also go to Profit first for therapist.com and get access to the resources for from that are within the book as well.
And it will send you directly to Amazon, right? Also, depending on when you're listening, like it's going to be available for you and you can get the resources on, on the website.
[00:33:47] Gordon Brewer: Right, right. And I, and I set up a pretty link that's takes folks directly to Amazon and it's just simply prac practice of therapy.com/profit first workbook.
And Amazing. If you go to, if you've been getting my, those that are on my email list, they've already been getting those links sent to 'em and everything. So, but perfect. And, and it's a great deal by folks. It's just 15 bucks. I mean, it's just. Yeah. And uh, and I hope that I'm gonna encourage Julie to double the price because there's more than that.
[00:34:21] Julie Herres: All right. Get it while you can while it's still 15, right? Yeah, yeah,
[00:34:25] Gordon Brewer: yeah. That's right. That's right. So, yeah. Well, Julie, again, it's glad to have you. So good to talk with you on the podcast and, and folks check out. Her book and also her podcast. Therapy For Your Money. Therapy For Your Money Podcast. Yeah.
Thank you for that. I talk
[00:34:42] Julie Herres: about all things money, right? You've been a frequent guest on the podcast as well. Um, we're in season six already. It's all financial topics for. Private practice, right? Yeah. So if you, you, you've gotta worry about money in your practice, like mm-hmm. There's probably an episode that talks about it
[00:34:59] Gordon Brewer: right there before.
Right. And also also, I'll say, just a quick plug for the, that podcast and this one are both part of the Psych Craft network. Yes. The podcasts.
[00:35:08] Julie Herres: Yes, absolutely. Yeah.
[00:35:09] Gordon Brewer: So, good deal.
[00:35:11] Julie Herres: Gordon, one thing I wanna mention is the, the book is launching on October 21st. So for anyone who pre-orders or orders in that.
First week we have a really amazing freebie available, as if it wasn't always a, already a good a good deal, right? Right. At $15 for the workbook, you, if you order in the first week, you get access to a free book club that starts on October 24th. So if you go to profit first or therapist.com/. Workbook, you can register for the book club.
Get that, get that bonus. It's a three week book club with me where we're going to go over some of the chapters in the workbook. You're gonna have homework. It's like a real book club, right? You're, you're gonna do the work at home and then we're gonna talk about it in the book club and discuss it and troubleshoot.
So definitely take advantage of that freebie and just order in launch week so you can get access to it starting on the 24th and it's for three Fridays in a row.
[00:36:07] Gordon Brewer: Right, right. And we'll have links there in the show notes and the show summary. And like I said, uh, earlier, if you're on my mailing list, you'll get notifications about this anyway.
But, and also Julie's, I know Julie has an email list as well. Yeah. For profit first for therapist, so I do be sure. And check it out.
Well, again, a big thanks to Julie for joining me on the podcast is again, again, she's no stranger to this. This podcast and also I would encourage you to check out her podcast Therapy for Your Money. Again, as I mentioned, that's their part of the Site Craft Network. And also be sure and get in on this offer to join the book club by pre-ordering.
Are ordering your copy of Profit First for therapists official workbook. And the landing page that Julie has set up for that is profit first for therapists.com/workbook and that'll get you to the right place. And again, you'll find links here in the show notes in the show summary for that. And congratulations, Julie, on this, this workbook and it is packed full of stuff.
And like I mentioned at the end there, she's not charging enough for this. It's just. 15 bucks for this workbook and I'm so happy for her and launching this and you're gonna find it just really helpful. So be sure to check it out. And also, big thanks to our sponsor of the podcast Therapy Notes. They are the leading electronic health record system for mental health providers.
I use them in my practice and absolutely it is the hub of what we do day in and day out with the clinical side of our practice from scheduling appointments to writing clinical notes. To billing patients, all of that, it's all inclusive there. Also, there's a patient portal where people can go in and make appointments and check out things, and also there's telehealth available through the platform.
It really is an all inclusive platform, and now with their AI generated therapy fuel. Writing progress notes or session notes couldn't be easier. So be sure and check 'em out. And if you'll go to practice of therapy.com/therapy notes and use that promo code just Gordon, G-O-R-D-O-N, and you can try them out for two months for free.
So. Stay. Stay tuned folks for more episodes of The Practice of Therapy Podcast, and do take time to follow us or subscribe to the podcast. Wherever you meet might be listening to it and looking forward to being with you again next week for another episode.
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