The Practice of Therapy

Manoj Kanagaraj
Okay. All right. Hi, everyone. My name is Manoj, and I'm one of the co founders of growth therapy. And I'm excited to be speaking with Gordon and the practice of therapy today to talk about supporting mental health professionals in their journeys to private practice.

Gordon Brewer
Well, hello, everyone, and welcome again to the podcasts. And I'm so happy to have with me today mnos Khan, that garage that I say that grow, hopefully I did. And I was happy for you to meet my notion, he is the person behind growth therapy, and I want you to hear about this service, had a conversation with one of his colleagues, about a week or two ago and just really excited about this new resource for therapists. And so Minos welcome, and glad you're with me.

Manoj Kanagaraj
Thank you, Gordon, very excited to be here.

Gordon Brewer
Yes. And so as I start with everyone, why don't you tell folks a little bit about your story and how you've landed where you've landed, and we'll take it from there.

Manoj Kanagaraj
That sounds great. So yeah, a little bit of background on me and my story, I grew up around a lot of mental health professionals. And myself, I was in medical training. And I, you know, over the past decade or so I found mental health to be something that I really cared about and found, as I think most listeners on this podcast would know, something that over the past several years, there's been a lot more public conversation about but in the past, there wasn't, and there was a lot of stigma around mental health and sort of seeking out care. And it's been really nice to see that stigma start to reduce. But as that's happened, a lot of folks have been seeking out therapy or seeking out mental health services, and really struggling to find them in a way that sort of fits their their needs, particularly financially. So from one end, what I sort of was witnessing was a lot of friends and family were having difficulty finding affordable mental health care, particularly that based on their insurance, and then on the other end from sort of my personal career path and medical training and sort of seeing that for healthcare professionals, particularly mental health professionals, the landscape of running a practice was not very, it was no longer as you know, as simple as it might have been, a couple decades ago, there were increasing complexities of just running a small business, but then especially plugging into this sort of insurance payment landscape. And it's been that way for a while. And I think a lot of folks would probably agree that it's, it's not, it's not that fun to have to figure out how to get on an insurance panel, wait several months to do that. And then once you're in, get reimbursed at a rate that doesn't really sort of fairly value your services that you're offering, and then have to do a bunch of paperwork to sort of get those claims in and then follow through and get paid. So the private practice experience as well, it just seemed like it was really overwhelming for someone who wanted to run their own practice and was leading to a lot of clinician and professional burnout. And from that, and I really had always wanted to see a way where healthcare professionals could sort of find that middle balance, again, where you have that autonomy of getting to practice on your own terms, without feeling like you need a hospital system or a large, you know, like, local group practice to have to take care of all the back office for you, but also take away half of your earnings, which was kind of the place where we saw a lot of folks stuck in where they were getting that support, but they were earning 50 cents on the dollar as a cost for that. So, right. Those two problems were really sort of apparent to me, and we're pretty influential to starting our journey on growth therapy.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes. I was so excited to hear about it because you described it perfectly for a lot of folks in private practice in that. I know for me, I'm an insurance based practice. And part of my decision to do that was for the very reasons you mentioned early on is being able to provide something that's affordable to people but at the same time to be able to pay my clinicians fair wage, but also the demographics of our area. We are small, small Metro, you know, it's kind of a small metropolitan area surrounded by a large rural area. And the people that come to us are very dependent on their insurance and need need to use their insurance to pay for services. And so navigating all that gear, right, it's, it's a nightmare. So, yeah, I'm so so glad that you kind of taking this on. So, um, one of the things that I think folks might be interested in is, is just kind of how you're structured and how you're different with the way that you do things within growth therapy. we froze up there.

You there. Hey, Gordon, I'm here. I don't know what you heard. Her Nat last, but I think I heard most of it actually. Okay. Okay, so, yeah, so shoot me.

All right. Yeah. Just let me let me reframe the question. And hopefully Rachel can hear all this to edit it out. So great. So yeah, so one of the things that I think would be really interesting to people is just really how you've got growth therapy structured that's different from from other platforms that are out there, and and how all that works, because that was something that was just really intriguing to me.

Manoj Kanagaraj
Yeah, absolutely. So what we saw as options for folks, for mental health professionals were, I guess I'd break it down into a few categories. One would be to, you know, work for a large health system, as a, as a mental health counselor, social worker, psychologists, psychiatrists, and other ways to work for a local group practice. And I think that was, that's been a very popular option. And I think we'll continue to beat to be the case, because it's really nice to have a small group of peers that you can sort of learn from, especially, you know, at a certain stage of your career than to just jump out on your own. The other is, you know, for folks who did feel like they wanted to do their own practice, there are tools like simple practice, or therapy notes that were kind of, you know, do it yourself software, where you could log your notes, maybe submit a claim, but you just have so much of the work still on your plate, to run that business. And then the final one was for people who kind of wanted to plug into the tele mental health wave over the past couple of years, and especially over COVID, with, with telehealth companies like betterhelp, or teladoc. And so that was kind of our like our assessment of, of the landscape. And I think just starting from back to first, with the telehealth companies, it really felt like those businesses were more focused on the client and not really on the practitioner. And it came at a cost of a lot of mental health professionals feeling like they were just being plugged into a system with even continuity of care being disrupted where some clients would see someone for a short period of time and then have to be switched to someone else without really much control over that process. The tools like simple practice and therapy notes that are great software, but they leave a lot of the practice still in an individual's hand of sort of getting up and running a lot of the marketing work, getting the actual referrals, and then having to follow up to actually get paid by insurance companies or even with self pay. There's there's some work there. And then we already talked a little bit about the group practice the pros there. I think some of the challenges before were that with, with Office leases, it was there was obviously a lot of cost to having to run a local group practice and for some participating clinicians that came at a cost to them in terms of earnings. And then the sort of larger health systems I'd say, it's fairly clear that that the sense of clinical autonomy is limited there versus in a private practice. So what we really wanted to do was to not be so front facing towards, I guess, clients and sort of branding the experience, but also giving everyone who works with us that this On the back end, so they feel like they don't have to worry about getting paid by insurance companies or having some base source of referrals. So what we've built with growth therapy is I guess you can think of it as a sort of an infrastructure or a back end for somebody who wants their own private practice to get more support, or for someone who hasn't even started a private practice before. And a lot of folks come to us and they basically have gotten into the stage in their career where they want to take that next step, and they find us really good partner to sort of take that leap. So we really strive to offer folks that balance of the clinical autonomy, the marketing and brand independence, but all of the the team that's there for you and your corner, without it feeling like an isolating experience.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Yeah, it's a Yeah, it's I think it's one of the things that I think is appealing to people is, is that they're not having to do deal with as many of the all the different pieces that have to go on behind the scenes. And I think the other thing, too, that makes you unique is that you do help people with being able to collect from insurance companies, you want to say more about that.

Manoj Kanagaraj
Yeah, absolutely. So effectively after a visit with with our platform, anybody could just, you know, just go in and on our software, just say, or on our website, just say, you know, what the length of that visit was and what the nature of that visit was, from a clinical perspective, if you have somewhere you take notes, you can keep it on that platform, if you want to add your node into our system, that's great, too, as long as there's something somewhere. And then from there, we offer an estimated time of when somebody can expect that to get paid and how much that would be based on the contract that we have with the insurance company that everyone plugs into. And, and from there that that that's about it, then our team sort of takes over submits the actual claim does all of the follow up to make sure that the claim was cleared? And then checks in with the insurance company to make sure it gets remitted. And then it goes straight to, to all of our participating practitioners accounts.

Gordon Brewer
Wow. Yeah. So. So it's basically just thinking about the model of business there the structure, people work as contractors for growth therapy, is that correct?

Manoj Kanagaraj
Okay. Technical, the technical relationship? Exactly.

Gordon Brewer
Right. Right. So, yeah, so let me see if I've got this correct. And just help clarify for not only me, but maybe, maybe some of the listeners, it would be just like if they had gone to work for a group practice, where the group practice was credentialed with different insurance companies, and then they contract you, you provide the services, and then the insurance company pays to, to grow therapy, and then you distribute the, the proportion that the contractor gets back, back to them.

Manoj Kanagaraj
Yep, exactly. That's okay. Um, structure. Oh,

Gordon Brewer
that's great. That's great. So what what states are you in so far? Is because I know it varies from state to state. What the different insurances?

Manoj Kanagaraj
That's a great question. So we started out in Florida, and we built a pretty large community there have close to 350, mental health professionals now. And we have a nice thriving, supportive online community where folks, you know, get advice from each other on clients, or have peer support groups, or share referrals amongst each other, which is growing really nicely. And we've been excited to see that over the past year. And so now, we're really thrilled to share that we're now moving into a handful of other states. And we've been launching in Georgia, the DC, Virginia, Maryland, metro area, and Pennsylvania. And that's been some news just over the past month or so. And we're excited to start moving into even more states after that. So it's been, it's been a lot of work, being in touch with the different insurance companies to help expand this platform and this mission and other states but we're excited to share that, that we've won over a handful of them in terms of alignment to make things tougher for everyone to plug in.

Gordon Brewer
Right and I know another another A big benefit of grow is the community that you have in connection with it in terms of being able to have conversations with other other therapists around clinical issues and that sort of thing. You want to say more about that as far as how that works?

Manoj Kanagaraj
Yeah, absolutely. So anybody who joins growth therapy that sort of either build out or or help grow their practice, gets invited to our online community. And there, it's pretty great. I mean, you basically have the chance to meet hundreds of other folks who have kind of taken the same leap or have been on this journey, similar to what you're embarking on to get to know each other, introduce yourself to them. You can have, you know, one on one chats to learn in terms of, you know, I saw your website, I really like the way you're marketing yourself, and you give me tips on how to build a similar website, or I just got some referrals for someone on Blue Cross, I'm not accepting Blue Cross yet. Would somebody here like to help this person out? They'd be specific preferences. And it's also been really nice to see leaders sort of just grow and autonomously take positions within the community of starting peer support groups around certain topics. And I don't know, it's just I think it's it's always a joy to work with, with, with mental health professionals, because they're just some of the best people.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, I would agree. Yeah.

Manoj Kanagaraj
Yeah. And so the unity, it's just kind of flourish on its own. And it's, it's, it's been really nice to just see everyone gets to connect with each other. Right, right. Yeah.

Gordon Brewer
So what is what is the what is the process for somebody that's interested in finding out more, you know, a signup process and credentialing process, and all of that for you guys?

Manoj Kanagaraj
Yeah, so it's a pretty easy process. Obviously, the important thing is whether we're if whether you're licensed in the states we currently are active in, but that should be expanding pretty soon here. But the real first step is just to go on our website, head over to our providers page, and then just enter in some basic info on yourself. And then someone on our team would schedule, an interview or a sort of console, and just get online and get to know each other and see, both from that technical perspective, but just from, you know, from an individual's like, sort of position along their journeys perspective, if that makes sense whether there's a good mutual fit, we, we definitely want to help sort of guide and navigate folks to make sure that growth therapy is a good fit for them. Because it's, it's not for everybody, but it is for the folks who are ready to either take that leap in the private practice or are already there. So it's, it's really just that first call with someone on our team. And then after that, we kick off the credentialing process.

Gordon Brewer
Right. Right. I think it would be just a great opportunity for folks that are, as you kind of alluded to the folks that might be working for like an agency or maybe a larger organization, but they're thinking about moving into private practice, to be able to use this as kind of a bridge for that, in that I can maybe start a private practice part time, or something like that. And then this would be this would take a lot of the, the administrative stuff off the plate for them in the background.

Manoj Kanagaraj
Yeah, you're totally right. And we've seen a lot of people do exactly that, where, let's say you work for an agency for you know, 3035 hours a week, maybe 40. And then you have some extra hours throughout the week, where you could fit in some sessions, let's say from five to 7pm. Or let's say you have Friday's off, and you want to just open up a practice and a really sort of easy way to get a feel for it. And then we've also seen folks who have done that, sort of fill up their practice and then start to say, hey, I need to open up more time. And it's fully in their court to set their schedule. And we have to say about that. So as you sort of get your legs under you, you can sort of start expanding and allocating more time to your private practice. That's a great bridge for folks who are just exactly in that category, as well as those who are already going.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. Yeah, I love that. The other thing I you know, one question that comes to mind for me, that some people might be curious about out. And I know it varies from state to state and also insurance company, that insurance company, but if somebody maybe has an associate license are some places they're called temporary licenses, where they're kind of in that that place from they've graduated, they had their degree and they're working towards licensure. Are you finding that there are some insurance companies that are, are working with those folks that are under supervision? That sort of thing?

Manoj Kanagaraj
That's a great question. You're totally right. It varies from insurance company to insurance companies. So it'd be a little tough for me to sort of make it a broad sweeping statement there. A number of companies that we work with, do, they do require upfront for credentialing there to be, you know, a license already in place? So I guess it does vary. And I think as we're expanding to new states, we might see some different permutations of that. But the ones that we'd previously been working with, it seemed like they had a relatively hard line on that.

Gordon Brewer
Right. All right. Are there any this? This might be putting you on the spot? But are you finding that there are any are any states that it's a little bit easier process than other states?

Manoj Kanagaraj
Um, I, you know, I think it it really is even within the state, it varies based on the region, because the way the insurance companies think is based on their network, and so they break down the country, state and state, but then they also break down the country, the state into, you know, the different regions and zip codes, if you will, depending on what their needs are for those different areas, they can make it easier or harder for people to join the network. I think a lot of the insurance companies are really struggling with over the past year, though, is okay, we've seen that mental and behavioral health has made a really nice transition to tele bass care. And that sort of dissolves their prior framework where they were so focused on local regions, and I'm witnessing it now. They're, they're actively having to think about how do we adapt to a future that doesn't have such such local ties for mental health? Or I mean, in terms of what's possible, they're having to rethink that. And we've seen that with a couple companies. So I think landscapes changing quickly.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, I would, uh, I would agree, I think one of the things that we learned just through COVID is that we, particularly with telehealth is that it it, it broadens our really opens up the potential for our clients. Yeah, because you cannot, you not only have your local region that you service, but you could potentially serve as a whole state. Right. And so being able to think about that kind of marketing I had, we recently did a redid our website around the first of the year, just did a complete overhaul. And the person I was working with Daniel father. I told him, I said, you know, we got to think about our SEO on a state level rather than just a local level at this point. So again, it's up. And I know, with I'm sure that's something that's on your radar, as well as just SEO and making sure that people's names come up in in Google searches and that kind of thing when they're searching for therapists.

Manoj Kanagaraj
Yeah, absolutely. Because even though we don't, you know, take the brand for any of our providers. They keep their own brand, we do like to help give them referrals. And that's something that they really appreciate from us. So that's important for us to think about and optimized for them.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, that's great. Well, Minaj I think there's probably just lots more we could talk about, but I want to be respectful of your time. tell folks how they can get in touch with you. And the way we're the website, the website and all that.

Manoj Kanagaraj
Yeah, absolutely. So you can just go to grow therapy.com slash providers, and that's gr o w therapy.com, slash providers, and that'll give you everything you need to get in touch with us and look forward to hearing from everybody.

Gordon Brewer
All right, that's great. They will have of course links and in the show notes and the show summary for everyone. Well, I'm sure people will be hearing more from you Minaj and and we'll have looking forward to hopefully doing this again,

Manoj Kanagaraj
I would love to thank you so much, Gordon is a real pleasure to get to speak on the podcast today and I'd love to come back. It's a great great