The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer:
And so welcome everyone to this webcast. I am thankful for Julie Herres from GreenOak Accounting, this joining me for this. We're going to be talking today about just some financial tips and just some thoughts that we're having about, um, this whole crisis and what's going on, uh, for people financially. I know, Julie, you've been, uh, getting a lot of questions for people, I know a lot of people are concerned.
Julie Herres:
Yeah. So I, I'm the owner of GreenOak Accounting and we're an accounting firm that specializes in working with therapists in private practice, solo, and group. And Gordon and I have teamed up on a lot of things, financial and private practice. So we thought it would be great to do this webinar today just on like, how can you get through the next couple of weeks steps next few months. If you don't have a huge amount saved, uh, you know, for a downturn like this that has been so sudden.
Gordon Brewer:
Right, right. Well, I think, um, I think probably the thing to remember for those of you that didn't have it, seen it yet, I did another round table kind of discussion with several private practice consultants, um, back on Friday and we were just talking about kind of the same topic but just thinking about just how we're going to handle this, uh, because it's, it's not only, you know, a health crisis, which is obvious, it's a mental health crisis. So I think for those of us in this field, there's a lot of opportunities to communicate with people and to, to really kind of think about doing business differently. But, um, so Julie and I were chatting before we started broadcasting here and Julie, you want to just start out by just, um, maybe tell people some things to begin to think about it, especially if they're feeling the crunch financially with all of this.
Julie Herres:
Yeah, absolutely. So we've been talking a lot about how to budget in a crisis caused this came on so quickly for most of us where all of a sudden you're, you're pivoting to tell hell your appointment numbers are dropping. Or people are just losing their jobs and can't come in anymore. Um, and so what does that look like if you don't have a big buffer? Um, and how can you make it through? So these are conversations that I've been having with a lot of my clients, um, over the last two weeks, but there's a couple of places to start. So first, um, I like to make decisions based on data and not fear. So I think it's always a great idea to know where you stand, right? So run the numbers and see, know how much is actually coming in, but also know what does it take for you to keep your doors open, right?
Julie Herres:
What's the minimum number of dollars that you need to bring in to pay for the ranch, uh, to pay for your, at the minimal software expenses that you have. If you have a team to payroll and what does, what, what do you need to bring in to do that? Because often you'll find it's not as much as you as you think it is, right? So you may not be paying yourself as much as normal. There may not be a lot left over, but what can you do to just not go in the ride and use any kind of personal funds? So that's a great place to start, figure, figure out where you are. Um, and then from that moment on, I, I love to use Dave Ramsey's quote of protecting the four walls, right? So you want to make sure that you have enough money in your personal life to pay for your food, um, in your shelter.
Julie Herres:
Uh, and he says food, shelter, clothing, and transportation. We're all staying home. So I don't think any of us need a lot of clothing. Right now I'm in transportation most of the time we're not going anywhere, right? So he uses that term in the sense of like, pay for gas juve ensure that you can get to work, but we don't even have to do that. So definitely you're trying to stay current on your car payment if you have one. So that doesn't get repossessed. But you know, if you can protect those items, then you're good. They don't pay on anything else. Pay your utilities, pay you, your home payments. Um, you know, and you're in your food and then everything else can wait. But you know, some people are in a situation where even that's not doable. And then I recommend starting with the big-ticket items.
Julie Herres:
So call your mortgage company, call your landlord, call your credit card company and ask them what they can do to help. Uh, I've seen a lot of different programs and it really depends on the company and the state, but even for utilities where they're saying we're suspending all disconnections right now, we're not disconnecting anyone. We're suspending all the payment fees. So if you just reach out, um, I always would prefer to be proactive versus reactive. So reach out to them and after credit card company, you know, are you able to waive my payment and not applying any fees or reach out to your bank and say, you know, I'm going through a time of financial distress. I'm just trying to keep my business afloat. Can you waive all over golf payments for the next 30 days? And a lot of them are being very amenable to that because they know what a difficult time it is for someone. So I would start with those big, big companies to have resources to help you. I would start there first. What do you think Gordon?
Gordon Brewer:
Yes. And uh, you know, another, another thing to is just really looking at how you can really streamline things. I think either a lot of times we have subscriptions we pay for or things that were kind of nice kind of things that we, and maybe just suspend the subscription for the months that we're, we're doing what we're doing. I think most people are, most people are going to be open to that, that they realize money is tight for people and so you can really just kind of go through. I know like for me I was just thinking, you know, now's the time for, I've been thinking about cutting cable at home and just going to internet baddies. You've been saying that for awhile. Now's the time to do it because I think, uh, they're going to probably cutting big, cutting some people, some deals on, on things like that. So, but yeah, and I think, uh, to reiterate what Julie said, I think now is the time, especially if we're having more downtime, is to really look at your numbers and really understand, um, you know, what like she said, what it takes to stay open, what it takes to pay your people if you're a group practice, all of those things is just really get your head around that because, um, in many ways data is power and we, we need to have that, uh, in order to understand what's going on financially.
Julie Herres:
It's a good time also to pull out your credit card bill and go down the list, right. And see what are the things that I'm using and what I'm not using because you probably have a little bit of downtime. So it's a good opportunity to do that. But at the same time I have, I would say that a lot of times people look at that list and say, Oh, well maybe I'll just, you know, cut my VA or cut my marketing person. And I would say, just be really careful with those really small businesses that you're cutting because they're small businesses do, they're struggling too. So if all their clients are struggling, you know, that's, that's really tough for them too. And it just creates this domino effect. If you really can't afford it, then you have to. But if there's a way for you to just maybe even reduce your hours versus cutting them altogether, like it's a good way to keep things moving along, but also have that resource writing when you're ready to, you're to ramp back up.
Julie Herres:
Gordon and I were also talking right before, um, if you have a client that cancels like you, there's a great opportunity to use that hour very productively and look at the opportunities that you probably haven't had time to look at, uh, recently. Right? So like looking at your email list, um, and Gordon, you were thinking about video going on Instagram. Um, reach out to people who have been in your practice and might not be, have been seeing you currently and send out an email saying like, Hey, I'm offering right now 30 minutes telehealth sessions if that's something that you can offer right where you're trying to fill the spots that you now have. But I promise you a lot about a lot of business owners are very, very stressed out. Um, and so just being top of mind and being reminded that you're there for them there, they very well could schedule something.
Gordon Brewer:
Right? Yeah. And I think it's a, you know, Julia gave me an idea of when we were chatting earlier, um, for those people, I know most of us, uh, in, in this space, in the mental health space, we've made the switch, hopefully for some of you hopefully is, is made that switch very quickly to doing telemental health and online sessions with people. And, um, there are several different platforms you can look at if you haven't made that switch. One is doxy, MI doxy, D O Y. Dot. M me. I'll put that in the chat here. Um, the other one is these C which is a, um, is a, is another one that you can use. Um, Google, Google meet is one that is, if you're using the paid version of Google, um, you can, you can make that HIPAA secure by getting the BAA from that. So those are low cost or no cost options for doing online sessions.
Gordon Brewer:
But what I was going to say is, um, if you're working with somebody, like, uh, the big idea I just had that I'll probably try to do today is just do a box session with one of my staff people to record and just show people what that's like, so that people that are maybe a little intimidated by the technology and aren't sure what to expect, uh, by online sessions, you can post that on our Facebook page and say, this is, this is what it looks like. This is how it happens. And, um, make it easy for people. And also just using this time to educate people about the use of telehealth. Um, from what I'm hearing and reading, um, is, is that most, for those of you that are insurance based, most of the insurance companies have kind of dropped their restrictions on having online sessions.
Gordon Brewer:
And I think most of the States are doing the same, uh, do check with your state, do tech check with insurance companies that you might be paneled with just to make sure. But everything that I'm hearing and seeing so far is that they're, they're totally embracing this and this change that we're, that we're going through. And quite frankly, this might even be, we might even be creating the norm for this, uh, moving forward as far as people wanting to do online sessions, uh, versus coming into the office. Um, may or may not be a good thing. Um, I'm old enough to where I'm still, I still prefer to see people, uh, face to face, but, um, doing the online sessions is a good, a good second, second way of doing it could be the new normal. Right, right, right. And so we just don't know, uh, as, as we do move forward with that.
Gordon Brewer:
Uh, but also it's just, um, another thing, uh, just to kind of piggyback on what, um, uh, Julie was suggesting is maybe even offering, and this is just kind of a, not that we're trying to, um, you know, necessarily try to make a lot of money off of the doing this. I'm not talking about that, but just being able to offer as a Goodwill to people. Yeah, I'll do like a 15 minute, 20 minute, um, mini session with you at no charge and this is how we can, how we can do that online. And those, and also being able to, uh, like a lot of businesses are doing is just offered discounts for your sessions. If your cash based, um, are being able to, um, you know, help help people with those, those times that maybe you're struggling. I know one of the things that I'm hearing a lot from people is that they're losing clients because they'd been laid off from work or they've been, they've lost their job.
Gordon Brewer:
And so the clients aren't being able to pay for things. And so being able to do some Goodwill in the community and just kind of building your, your reputation around that. Of course you have to be really clear that when things change, we can't do that forever. But, um, being able to just offer, you know, I think a lot of people are really wanting to talk about the anxiety they're feeling just around this, um, this whole crisis. And so for us to be able to offer what we have in our communities is a, is a good thing. So yeah. So, um,
Julie Herres:
when, so we've talked about, um, we wanted to talk about ways to manage, uh, know your finances when you might not have a lot of savings. Um, and Gordon and I are both big fans of profit first. Um, in our course money matters. In private practice, there's a whole section, um, on profit first, but right now today is not the time to implement that. Right. Um, when you're in the middle of a crisis, it's not time to implement profit first. But once the dust settles, if you, if you haven't done profit first, I would highly recommend it. Cause I can tell you for, you know, in my firm, there's a big difference between fines, a half-implemented profit first to have a profit account, a tax savings account, an operation as account and payroll. So they have buffers and all of those accounts.
Julie Herres:
Um, and while we might not want to delete all those like if we needed to, there's cash over there. Um, so I, I'd rather not spend all the profit account on making payroll, but if something catastrophic happens, like it kind of has right now, these are not, um, this is not a normal situation like we, there is cash to draw from. So, uh, you know, on the flip side, I do have clients where, you know, they're not going to be able to make payroll this week. Um, just because insurance payments have slowed down, fewer clients are coming in, fewer copays, less cash pay clients. Um, and so it's a lot more catastrophic. So we're looking at different options. Like what can we do right now, um, with the team, right? Can we reduce, uh, pay temporarily for any of the employees? It's never ideal, but I'd rather get them something than nothing.
Julie Herres:
Um, as far as the, you know, the admin stuff, like can anyone on the team take fewer hours? Um, is that possible for them? Right? Cause maybe they have a spouse that is still getting paid full salary, so they're able to defer that payment, um, for a little while. If you're an escort, you can also look at your own salary, right? Can you reduce your salary temporarily or even stop taking a salary temporarily just to weather the storm a little bit. Um, and, and defer that tax payment later so you can, so you can catch things up later. Adjust your salary at a later date, but just right now not have that tax bill because there's a lot of also legislation that's coming through. Um, it looks like there's an agreement reached as of this morning. It's not law yet. Um, but where there might be tax credits for people keeping on their employees for business owners, keeping on employees.
Julie Herres:
So there's something coming. Um, there might also be your credits for self-employed folks as well. Uh, so your relief is on the way. So like how can we get to that point? Um, and also one thing we've been doing a lot this week with our clients is helping them apply for FDA loans. Um, so SBA is the small business administration. Um, so far the government has approved up to 7 billion in SBA loans. Um, so most businesses are getting a minimum of 25,000 at very favorable rates. Um, it's just under 4%. Um, and there were no payments for at least four months. Um, I've heard that the repayments are in somewhere between four and 12 months. So yeah, that's an option for a lot of small businesses. If you have good credits, um, and have been in, it looks like they're requiring that you've been in business for about a year.
Julie Herres:
Um, but that's great, is a working capital loan. So you might have an option too, um, you'll get through this time and then start repaying at a later date just so you can keep paying your expenses. You can keep paying your rights, um, you know, and the different things in your business. So they're kind of complicated. Julie, where can people find that? Is it, yeah, I'm going to drop that in the chat as well. Um, where you would apply for that. I'm going to put that in. Um, it looks like the website is down right now. Um, there's been a, just an immense amount of traffic on the website. Um, so you probably want to prepare your documents ahead of time and just be ready to, uh, put the, to input those once you're able to log in. Um, but you're basically going to need a, your tax returns, your profit, and loss for the business.
Julie Herres:
Um, you're going to need your personal financial statements. So what liabilities do you personally have, what cash, what assets do you personally have? So you can gather all of those things and then it'd be ready. But right now I'm seeing that there are less busy between 7:00 PM and 7:00 AM so off-hours, but during the day it's really hard to get in. Um, that's something that we've been working with a lot of our clients to, to um, get those applications in quickly because of accuracy, accuracy, and speed. Do matter here. Um, but then also you're part of the package that's passing today. Tomorrow there's also a few billion for local, um, local and state loans as well. So there will be more different, more packages and more options as the weeks go on as well.
Gordon Brewer:
Right, right. So, um, so Julie, I've not done this before but I'm going to try to pop over to Facebook to Facebook to see if there's any comments or questions coming up there. If you want to field questions here, um, on zoom, uh, if you, uh, I think if you raise your hand, Julia will be able to see it. Um,
Julie Herres:
right, Mike. Well, so I want to just talk about one other thing, Gordon. Cause we talked about, um, you know, other streams of revenue. Um, and I think this is a great time if you have some downtime. Most therapists I've talked to have said to me, Oh, I have this idea for a principle or a download or an eCourse or an ebook. Um, I think this is a great time to put pen to paper and start working on that even though that might not make you money right now. Um, but getting that up and running so that you have something ready to sell next time something comes around. And Gordon, do you want to tell us about your, your, your other streams of income and how you've set that up?
Gordon Brewer:
Yes. Um, what, one of the things I was, um, Julian, now we're talking about it. I realize this is a, a tough time for people and this is not, uh, certainly by no means a sales pitch by any means. But, uh, at least through the end of April, I'm going to offer all of my courses, um, that I do through teachable, uh, uh, 50% off on that. And you can use the coupon code. I've got to get that setup. So bear with me today, but just spring 20, 20 and I'll put that in the chat here.
Julie Herres:
Gordon has a course on HIPAA-compliant G suites, um, and then money matters in private practice, so all things financial.
Gordon Brewer:
And so, you know, again, in your downtime and if you can, if you can afford it, just, uh, it's a good time to learn over that. Just to learn about the financial side of things and also learn how to, um, just manage your, manage your practice better. You know, just using with like using tools like G suite or being able to get some systems and processes in place to make you, you know, more streamlined and more efficient in your practice.
Julie Herres:
What are other, other kinds of, um, you know, streams of income that practice owners can start? Well,
Gordon Brewer:
yeah. Um, so yeah, it's good. A good question. Sorry. I um, w one thing is, um, there, there are a lot of different ways for you to create digital products for people. Um, I know that, uh, like I have a paperwork packet that I'll offer. Um, also the session note, helper, those kinds of things. Um, excuse me. Um, the other ways you can have if you're a solo practice of course right now is not a great time to be hiring people, but if you're a solo practice, adding the people to your group is another way to, to have, um, begin some passive streams of income. Um, certainly, um, things like affiliate marketing and for there things that you offer to your clients or suggest to your clients in terms of products or books and that sort of thing. You can set up an Amazon account and, um, uh, an Amazon affiliate account and give them a link and then they can go, go to that and, um, um, purchase something.
Gordon Brewer:
You get a little commission. It's not a lot of money, but that's another way to produce some income. I know that my friend, uh, Katie Ingler over at, um, um, at practical practicality, and again, I'll put this in the, uh, in the chat here, has, uh, has, uh, a platform that is, um, is available to counselors to share like worksheets and, um, different resources, handouts and that sort of thing that other, other therapists can purchase from you. So again, another way to produce somebody. Um, somebody had made in the comments here, perhaps adding group therapy options for people to process what they're currently experiencing, uh, with our guidance.
Julie Herres:
I think that's a great idea. So one of my clients announced this week, um, she's, she's starting a, um, career change group starting this week. So a four-week career change group, discounted 50%. Um, and it's all done through zoom. And I thought that was brilliant because she said, people are stuck at home. They don't know what to do. Um, and they're not that busy. Right. A lot of people, a lot of people are laid off. So if they'd been considering a change in careers, like what a great time to explore that. I thought that was brilliant. Um, but I agree. I agree with you Marcy. Like there's so many, um, you know, people that are hurting right now and, and worried and anxious. I think it would be great to have a group, um, in a setting like this and assume setting, you know, in a group chat setting.
Gordon Brewer:
Right. And what Jay and the thing was zoom, um, uh, you can, you can register for a free account. It limits you to 40 minutes if you have a free account. The one thing you do have to be aware of was zoom, I'll say is that that in it, unless you buy their tele-health, it's not technically HIPAA compliant because you don't have that. Uh, but, uh, I think doxy, um, has doxy me has a paid version that she can, that she can use. Certainly, you could use Google meet, um, if you had the pay version of G of Google G suite, um, and use that and have it HIPAA secure. So I'm not seeing here, uh, Julie had to get on Facebook live and be able to answer questions there. So folks of you, those of you that are on Facebook live watching this, uh, put your, put your questions in the comments and I'll try to jump over right after this and try to respond to those. Um, anybody else has questions here on zoom? Those of you that are joining us,
Julie Herres:
happy to chat about your financial situation or what would you do? Kind of question. We can talk about taxes, we'll talk about anything. So you've probably seen tax returns are now, uh, returns on payments are now due July 15. So the April 15th deadline no longer exists for this year. Uh, personal taxes and tax payments are due July 15th. So if you think you'll get a refund, you should file those taxes as soon as possible cause there is a delay in processing right now just because a lot of the service centers are, are not operating at full capacity. So you should get that in as soon as possible so you can get your refund. You can still file on time if you'd like, but you don't have to send in your payment until July 15th. And so because Cassius King right now, I would not send any money in, um, until then.
Gordon Brewer:
Yeah, that sounds good. Um, for those of you that are on zoom, if you want to raise your hand, I think if you go up and, uh, your put the cursor or whatever over on the top right-hand corner of your screen, of your picture, there are three little dots there and you can click on that and raise your hand. And that way we'll know you have a question. I think that's how it is. I'm hosting sob. It got different things on my screen. Are you can ask a question in the chat.
Julie Herres:
No, no, just put it in the shot. That's completely fine. What about the payment of quarterly estimated taxes? Good question. So when I, um, my understanding is that that's pushed back to July 15th as well. Yeah. So double-check with your tax person because I S I just saw that today, um, in an article, originally it wasn't official. Uh, but it looks like that will be pushed back as well. That's kind of what we were expecting. It would make sense if you don't have to pay 2019 taxes, why would you have to pay 2020? Um, but I would just double check that. Yeah. Yup. And I think the thing with quarterly estimated tax payments is if you're right now also in a situation where you've lost a lot of business, you may not need to make that [inaudible] tax payment anyways. Right. So like right now it might be worth the penalties are very small for underpayment.
Julie Herres:
So you may want to just wait till two, two and see how that goes before making, um, your quarterly estimated tax payment or make a payment of half of what you think it should be. Um, you have instead of full payment. So I know a lot of people worry about the quarterly estimated tax payments. Um, and I, I completely get it and I agree, but this is just not a usual circumstance. And so I would rather you have a little more cash in your bank account rather than have it tied up, um, and waiting for a refund that you won't be able to get for a full,
Gordon Brewer:
yeah. Well, we don't know for sure, but I would predict that they're going to, the IRS is going to reduce a lot of the penalties and all that sort of thing this year just because,
Julie Herres:
yeah, that's the sense I get as well. So what, um, you may remember corporations and tax returns partnerships in escorts were due March 16, just as all of this was really starting to unfold and they never did extend that due date. Uh, but what they indicated to, um, EA ICPA the associate association of CPAs is that, um, they were going to be very lenient for people who were, um, who were late. So most, most practitioners just filed extensions. It's not really a big deal. Like if you couldn't get it in time, you just bought an extension. But if that wasn't probably, they had mentioned that they would probably be very linear. I would expect that would be the same thing just overall in 2020. That's not a guarantee that they're going to eliminate, uh, you know, penalties and interest. But I would, I would bet that [inaudible]
Gordon Brewer:
right. Yeah. Somebody made the comment, I'm just, that VC is no longer offering the free service. Um, they, um, let's see. And then there, there's another comment that um, the CEO of VC said in a webinar last week, they are planning to offer the free version once again, but it will take two to three weeks because their systems were so overwhelmed with activities. So I, and I think, which is what I'm using in my practice right now has um, kind of up their game and um, not the free version is a low definition, um, kind of interaction. I don't know that they think they're offering maybe the high definition for everyone for free for a short period of time. I might be wrong on that, so don't quote me on that. I know when I did a practice session with one of my, one of my therapists, um, um, earlier this week, it would, the picture looked really good and we didn't have any trouble connecting and we're just using the free version of doxy. Me
Julie Herres:
when Gordon, I just thought of another, um, you know, accounting tip for, you know, the situation that we're in. Um, and this comes from Mike. Oh, it's the, uh, author of profit first. So he said, you know, if you're using a QuickBooks, uh, QuickBooks Online, QuickBooks desktop, even your spreadsheet, if you have, if you incur any expenses specifically related to coronavirus to create a specific account, call it coven 19 Corona coronavirus to create that account. And that you can see those, those, um, expenses separately. They're not going to be more or less deductible at the end of the year. But what that helps you is to kind of evaluate, uh, why there's a spike in expenses if there is one. But also if you were, for example, to sell your practice at the end of the year, you could really easily show like, this is not a usual expense. This is not something that should happen again.
Julie Herres:
And so it doesn't overinflate your expenses for the year. Um, that's one tip that he had that I love. Um, so if you're, if you're buying a paid version of a PC or doxy or whatever it may be, but if you're, um, how did you bring in janitorial staff to, to do a deep clean of your office or buying additional supplies or having to provide, um, I know some of the folks who have had to provide, you know, laptops to their team to bring homes. Like if you're having to buy any of those items, put that under that Coronavirus accounts, you can really easily track that.
Gordon Brewer:
Right, right. Uh, let's see. Marcy, I saw that she had your hand up. Did you have another question? I'm going to unmute you here. Are you going to unmute yourself?
Julie Herres:
Okay, thank you. So this is Marcy. Um, so I'm brand new to private practice. It's really strange to be ramping up when, you know, things are closing down, but our field does seem particularly well-positioned to move to online therapy, which was my plan anyway, to start out with teletherapy and then transition to office space. So my question is, is, um, in regards to offering discounts during this time, what are your thoughts on, on being brand new and offering these discounted rates right off the bat to clients? Um, as far as, you know, from a business standpoint, I'm just wondering is that a good idea? As long as I'm clear that this is just temporary temporarily, I'm offering these reduced rates for an initial session and subsequent sessions or do I put my real pricing up there?
Gordon Brewer:
Yeah, I think I'm [inaudible] are my thoughts and Julia, I want to get your thoughts I would make, I would make yet, um, have a definite end date in mind so that the say, you know, for this period of time, um, and this'll end on, you know, April 30th or you know, May 15th or whatever you decide is best. And I think it's just, um, and I would maybe do it, um, I don't know, maybe a percentage discount as opposed to a flat rate discount. Um, I don't know. Julie, your thoughts on it?
Julie Herres:
Well, so Marcy, are you mostly private pay or do you take insurance? It will be only private pay. Fully private. Okay. Um, well, so and then on a, on a personal financial side, like do you need the, do you need the income right now? Not necessarily. Okay. But it would be nice. It would be nice. Take uh, take a little slightly different approach to Gordon and say kind of hold your ground, but I would maybe offer a few slots at a discounted rate. Not all of them. Um, you're kind of like if you were doing a sliding scale, but then say it's hard to, to claw your way back out of, of um, you know, a discounted rate. So I would do what we talked about at the beginning is like, look at what your break-even point is. Even just break even in your business if you don't really, you know, need to be bringing home a whole lot of income.
Julie Herres:
Um, and just making sure that you're getting to that point. So if you need to offer a couple of just kind of sessions per week and do it. Um, but I would be clear in like, uh, how many sessions per week that you have. So if you're, for example, if you're saying, I'm going to work no more than 20 sessions and if you have three that are discounted for now, and that could decrease as time goes. Um, but because you can't have all sliding scale sessions, that just doesn't make, um, make any sense. And I think, you know, just therapists, in general, can continue to, um, undervalue their services. Um, there's a lot of people that are still working, right? A lot of people are or not, but a lot of people are still working in, are very anxious, like working parents, working from home, trying to manage their entire life and their children at the same time. So I think there's a lot of people who need a service and are likely willing to pay. Um, and it can depend on your market as well. Right. But if you're in a market that can sustain private pay,
Julie Herres:
I wouldn't discount access to them.
Gordon Brewer:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Good, good, good idea. Okay. So got some other, other questions here.
Julie Herres:
are there any benefits to tracking discounts issues to clients? Um, so yes you can. So it would be, um, you know, on the profit and loss statements, like if you were tracking in QuickBooks, you would see like here's the income minus the discount and you'd see your gross income. Um, th there's no, there's no tax benefit to it though. Most, um, most clinicians are cash basis taxpayers and that means that you pay taxes on the income when it is received, not went into his arms. Right? So if, so if you're, um, you know, charging a hundred but discounting it $30, you're receiving 70, no matter what you're paying taxes on the 70, not the hundred. Um, so you, so tax-wise there's not an additional deduction. You don't get to deduct it twice. Um, but you're not paying taxes on a, on a hundred. Just like if you are donating a session or doing a free session, you don't get an additional, it's not like, um, your, your, your time is not a charitable donation. Um, all of your expenses related to that time is, so like, let's say you were paying a clinician that's seeing someone for a fully discounted session, your pay to them is still deductible, but the session like the income that you would've have received is not considered a donation. Does that make sense? Yeah.
Gordon Brewer:
Yeah. So one question is why percentage discount was that of a flat fee? What's the reasoning for that? Our practice is considering temporary slides for three or six months. So I'm just curious about the best way to do that. Um, yeah, so the percentage thing, uh, the, the way I think about numbers is, and this is basically because I'm insurance-based in my practice, um, my, the fee that each client is charged differs or what we collect from each client differs because of the insurance rates. So I was just thinking in terms of, I know our average, our average per session, right, based on numbers from the past year and the previous years, I know where that area is. And so, um, I wouldn't want to just say like, um, say for example, if I've got one client who's, um, what the, what the practice collects is a say an I'm just making up numbers, sir.
Gordon Brewer:
Say $50, as opposed to someone that is paying $100. If I'm not, um, $20 off the total, the total there, uh, that's going to be a bigger hit for the 50, $50 one than the hundred dollars one. So if I did like a 20%, it would, it would be less of a hit for the practice. Uh, but in terms of your, um, in terms of an opera, uh, creating a sliding scale, you want to cover your expenses, you want to at least have your bottom, your bottom level gonna cover your cost on your, um, on offering a session or whatever. Is that, would you agree with that, Julie?
Julie Herres:
um, and I've heard of people waiving copays temporarily. Uh, Gordon, do you know if that's allowed?
Gordon Brewer:
I don't think insurance companies allow you to do that. Um, I think you're supposed to collect that. I think that's, uh, that would be a big no, no, it'd be kind of an insurance fraud thing if you did.
Julie Herres:
Okay. Um, so we have Amazon's saying, I have a client wanting to know if texting a session is an option. My first thought is that insurance would never work
Gordon Brewer:
and she's an insurance client. Any thoughts? Um, yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a good question. I don't think that insurance companies are going to allow that. And usually the, we had this come up in my practice, uh, this week. Of course, the clinician that debt that it was asked to as a cash clinician. I mean, they're not on any panels. But, um, the thing about it is, is there's no way to kind of measure the time that you spend with the client with texting. Uh, the other thing is too, is that probably the reason that a person might be wanting to text is that they don't have a place to meet with you. That feels private and there and, and so being able to kind of work through that with the client is something that's um, you might want to talk with about. I think it would, I think most, most insurance companies are going to prefer that there be a video link, but probably phone sessions are going to be something that a lot of us are going to have door resort to just because, um, people don't have the internet access.
Gordon Brewer:
I know in a lot of communities that's a problem we're running into is that they just don't have the internet access. So, yeah. So, um, let's see. Trying to see if there are other questions.
Julie Herres:
I don't have any other questions in zoom. Is there anyone else I wanted to unmute them themselves and ask a question. You've gone over our time, but we can take a few more questions if you'd like. Do you see any on Facebook Gordon?
Gordon Brewer:
I do not. I wasn't able to see our feed on Facebook. So, um, yeah. So, um, I think it's, um, that's a this is something I've just started using, doing the feed on Facebook simultaneously as something I'm new with this week. So, um, folks, thanks for joining us. Well um, I've recorded this and I'll put it on the Facebook, um, Facebook page, practice therapy and share it with Julie as well and she can put it on her Facebook page and green Oak accounting and um, so and you can always email us, um, with your questions. Happy to answer those emails if you have those.
Julie Herres:
Yeah. And why don't we drop our, I'm, I'll going to drop my email here. Um, if you'd like, if you have any questions that come up, feel free to send me an email a put his as well. Um, and we'll help. We'll help if we can. It's a tough time for everyone, but there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that you can do right now, so,
Julie Herres:
All go and take action. Oops. Let's say my private message, I don't know why Gordon. Well, Sherry says, thank you. Very informative session. Thanks. Thanks, Sherry. We appreciate it. We want to give you as much all the info that we have. Information is out there. Yup. All right, so you have my email, Gordon's email. If you need anything, please feel free to reach out to us.