The Practice of Therapy

[00:00:00] Gordon Brewer: Well, hello everyone. And welcome again to the practice of therapy podcast. And you just don't know how excited I am to have Katie Morton with me here today. I discovered Katie on YouTube of all things, and she has got one of the most amazing, you know, YouTube channels on mental health that I've ever seen and she interviews really cool people and she is just doing just a Phenomenal job of just educating people around all things mental health.
So welcome Katie glad you're here. Yeah. Thank you for having me Yes, so it's, uh, it's yeah, as I was telling Katie before we started recording, I just, um, I'm really quite frankly been touched by what she's been doing because I think she has made, um, she's really doing a great job of taking the stem stigma out of mental health.
helping people in unconventional ways, I think. Um, and so Katie tell folks, as I start with everyone, tell folks a little bit about your practice journey and how you've landed where you've landed and what you're doing now.
[00:01:09] Kati Morton: Yeah. Um, It's a winding road. I never thought this would be what I do. Um, I started, I mean, I always knew I wanted to be a therapist or a psychologist or even for a while a psychiatrist.
I wasn't really sure, but I've always enjoyed people and the, our ability to change and grow. Um, and when, even when I was a kid, I loved being the secret keeper for my friends, knowing that they could like confide in me and I would lock it up, you know, like a vault. Um, and so. Anyway, that's just kind of like the background of why psychology was so interesting I enjoy talking to people other jobs i've been in over the years as i'm sure any of us, you know We've all had many jobs Um getting to where we were at from I was a waitress to a salesperson to the hr representative all sorts of stuff Um, and I was always bored with other jobs, but people don't bore me people are fascinating and always changing um, and so when I You was, I think I was still in graduate school, um, I started working at an eating disorder treatment center, and the main reason that that came to be was because I put myself through school, I paid, you know, I didn't come from money, I paid for all of my own education, and so it was the only job that paid.
And
[00:02:22] Kati Morton: I had a close friend of mine suffer from an eating disorder when I was growing up and so I was actually kind of reluctant to take the job, thinking that maybe, you know, there could be some countertransference and even though I was in my own therapy, I was just worried about how I would manage it and it turned out to be one of the most fulfilling jobs I've been in.
And during that time, uh, my husband now, but at the time he was still my boyfriend, um, I'd come home and I would complain about how nobody understood eating disorders, and we didn't have enough people to refer to, and no one was talking about it in a real way, um, and he had just been at this conference where they talked about the power of social media, and particularly YouTube.
And he comes from a film production background, and so he said, well, why don't you educate? I'll film you, and we can put it online. Um, and like any good therapist, I was like, no, I don't want to be on camera. I, that's not what I, you know, I'm supposed to be, you know, do my own thing. It's not about me. It's about my patients.
Um, and then after some persuasion, seeing other creators doing things on YouTube and other education, Yeah. Educational creators coming out of the woodworks. Like, um, if you're not familiar, uh, Hank and John Green have a wonderful channel and a ton of channels They've created. Complexly is their company.
They have a lot of educational content and all of that just kind of pushed me over into it And so a little over eight years ago, uh, we filmed our first video super awkward and Yeah, we've been doing it ever since and because nothing happens in a vacuum Even though the channel began as an eating disorder focused channel It's definitely grown into all things mental health related and I even have other colleagues of mine On to discuss things that are out of my scope of practice,
[00:04:00] Gordon Brewer: right?
right, and what one of the way I discovered katie was uh, I was telling her this is that I um, One of my, um, I don't, yes, it's really a vice, but one of the things that I do just to kind of wind down at night is I'll watch YouTube videos. And, um, and, uh, one of the people that I follow a musician that I absolutely love is her name is Dodie or Dodie Clark.
And Dodie had done an interview with Katie or vice versa, just about her mental health struggles and the things that she's gone through. And, um, um, So who is this Katie Morton? And so I just started binge watching all of her, all of her videos and stuff. And it was just, uh, just amazing what you're doing in this space.
And I think, I think what intrigued me the most is, is that you're, you've broken out of that mold of helping people with just doing traditional therapy. And, um, there's, uh, there's a, There's a talk that you did. I think it was a VidCon talk that you did. And I'm going to put a link in the show notes to that, but, um, that was just really touching to me is that you started getting feedback from people about what you were publishing.
You want to talk a little bit about that? Um, just about some of the feedback and comments you're getting from people and, um, Really kind of, in many ways, it, uh, it verifies the fact that this is helpful.
[00:05:30] Kati Morton: Yeah, I do. I mean, that's the thing that I'm the most, I guess, proud of when it comes to my channel, is the community aspect, because oftentimes when we deal with mental health issues, it's just us and our therapist, and that's it.
And other people in our lives might not even know we're going through it, and we can feel like something's weird about us or wrong with us. Um, and so, And so I really engage a lot with my community and they engage with each other. And that's the really powerful part about it is, um, for those of you who aren't familiar with how YouTube works, you as a creator have the ability to let all comments fly.
Like whatever people put, it can be posted. Ooh, I'm so sorry.
[00:06:10] Gordon Brewer: You're fine.
[00:06:12] Kati Morton: I was like, I don't know why that didn't. Um, So, anyways, for those of you who don't know how YouTube works, you have the ability as a creator to either let every comment that someone wants to put out be posted, or you have the ability to hold certain words, or hold them all.
And for years, I used to hold all of the comments, and approve them myself, just to ensure it was a safe and healthy place. And then, probably about three or four years ago, I Uh, pointed moderators within my community and how I hold certain words like, um, kill yourself, uh, you know, some curse words, things that I just think could be really offensive and they've really taken it amongst themselves to, continue to keep it a safe and happy place and To that end because of the fact that I engage with them when a video goes live.
I comment back I answer their questions and videos. I really feel a deep connection to my audience and My viewers are really it's it's not just about me. It's about them as well. And so I get these really powerful letters I have a PO box that I keep and people send me and You know, Christmas cards, everything, um, sharing how the channel has benefited them.
And that's honestly the, it's the most rewarding thing I've ever done. Just the ability to reach that many people.
Um,
[00:07:33] Kati Morton: so yeah, so I've shared that in different talks. I, I, I always joke with my audience. I'm like, if I'm going to give a talk, I'm probably going to cry publicly. Not my favorite thing to do, but yeah, but it just, it's, it's a really powerful connection.
And it, what a. What a wonderful, I don't know, I guess, gift that we get to be able to be with people in the depths and to watch them climb out. It can be just so, oh, just, you know, so rewarding.
[00:07:59] Gordon Brewer: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I just, uh, it reminds me of a, uh, a client, a client I had this past week that really just kind of had a breakthrough and broke down and just, uh, I'm the same way.
I'm just, Just start crying as well. Just cry along with them, you know, and it's just yeah, and I think that's uh, the the thing that strikes me to Um katie is the fact that you are so genuine with what you're doing um, and and it comes through in your videos and just being able to and I think that's what really You know, at the core of doing good therapy is developing those relationships.
And with this whole medium of video and YouTube, people really feel a connection. And I think it's, it's helpful in that way.
[00:08:45] Kati Morton: Yeah. I mean, there's no. It would be almost the antithesis of therapy to be like phony or, or putting on a show. Like I always try to tell them to, like I'm in my own therapy and just because I know better doesn't mean I do better
because
[00:08:59] Kati Morton: I don't want them to.
I think a lot of people assume that therapists or people in the mental health, you know, anybody working in the mental health field like has it all figured out and their life is perfect. And. That's just not the case. We all have our ups and downs. We all have struggles. We all have communication blunders, relationship issues.
It's just part of being human.
[00:09:21] Gordon Brewer: Right. Right. Yeah. I was watching, I told Katie, I did some binge watching of some of her videos before, uh, this morning. And, um, there was one that you did just about, uh, what goes on inside a therapist's head. Uh huh to your audience. I love that. I love that because that was so true and spot on just about oh good Just how we are how we are as therapists Well, what one of the things i'm curious about is i'm i'm imagining that when you started down this road Of really just thinking about okay.
I'm going to help people In this way by just doing a lot of psychoeducation That's the you know our clinical term for it, but just education on mental health and mental health That sort of thing. Did you get a lot of pushback from colleagues and people about what you were doing? Because, you know, we're kind of trained to be okay, private people.
And, you know, we're gonna, you know, we're going to keep confidentiality. And if you do social media, you're breaking confidentiality and all that BS. Um, so yeah. So I'm just curious as to how you kind of made that leap. And just thinking outside the box.
[00:10:30] Kati Morton: Yeah, I mean, I have to give kudos to my husband for, for pushing me to take the leap because I definitely had those kinds of internal restrictions based on my education and what job I do.
Um, but as far as colleagues go, surprisingly, they've been supportive, but like, they don't understand it. A lot of, um, I mean, through the years it's gotten easier for them to understand what it is, but back in the day when I first started, I mean, it's been over eight years, a lot of my colleagues, because I'm part of this, um, we call it a journal club.
It's really not journals. It's more like a peer support. It's like a, a psychiatrist, counselor, psychologist get together to talk about difficult cases or things that we're working on, research we've read. Anything like that. Um, anyways, and it's once a month and they have all been very At first like what does that mean?
How do you hold confidentiality? Are you taking patients that way? How do you do online there? They had all sorts of questions But once they realized it was really just a way for me to educate people Who maybe don't have acts don't know where to start right? We don't know what we don't know um Then they were super supportive.
I have gotten pushback over the years, um, from other clinicians who just disagree with the way that I think about things, um, which is fair, right? We're all different and, and I don't discourage that feedback. Um, it's just things that I, like, for instance, the one thing I got a big, a lot of pushback on was I mentioned, um, In ways to know if you're seeing a good therapist and bad therapist.
I have this group of videos and One of the components of what I thought would make a bad therapist was like you don't have any goals you're working towards there's no like plan and I got a lot of pushback saying not all therapies work like that and
While
[00:12:12] Kati Morton: I hear them and it's all valuable feedback I still believe we should all be working towards something because my my belief is that therapy isn't lifelong It's something that you can access your, through your life.
Like I've been in therapy off and on since I was 15. So we're going on what, 20, 21 years now. Um, and, but I don't, I'm not constantly in it because I was supposed to be learning new tools that I can then utilize in life. I don't want to, as a therapist, I don't want to be a crutch. And as a patient, I don't want to use my therapist as a crutch.
[00:12:45] Gordon Brewer: Right. Right. I couldn't agree more. Yeah. Well, one of the things too is that I, you know, um, I would guess for you too, one of the things that you had to kind of overcome was kind of this whole, uh, imposter syndrome kind of thing. I'm just really recognizing, okay, yeah, I've got some knowledge. I know about this stuff and, you know, being, uh, feeling.
qualified to, to put that out there with some authority. So what was, what was that like for you?
[00:13:18] Kati Morton: I mean, I'm still in it, I guess a little bit. Um, you know, it kind of comes and goes, I think at the beginning, when people would come to me as like an expert, that word just didn't feel like it fit. I don't know.
I feel like, And even being a creative person as a creator people will say like, oh you're really creative like you did this thing and i'm like No, i'm more like science based. I don't see myself as a creative thinker. Um, but I went to a conference um a while ago and it was about like, uh, Essentially the self care base, but it was like we all create things We all put things out into the world and that makes us creative We don't need to put these certain terms on pedestals and that really resonated with me And it's been something that i've been trying to Believe more and let it absorb that how people see me and and if I am an I am an expert in certain things You know within especially eating disorders and self injury I've been working on that in a long time for many years and it's okay to accept that I have done that I think we I don't know if this is true, but in my experience, I feel like in society we kind of look down on people who are confident because confident we see as like egotistical.
Um, and it's just not the same thing. I think confidence is a healthy understanding of yourself and I'm not an expert in everything and I don't know everything. Um, But it's a, yeah, so it's, it's still a work in progress, but, um, but I'm trying to accept the fact that, you know, I do my best. I do do a lot of research.
I read a ton of books. I talked to a lot of colleagues in the space to get their insight. Um, so I utilize all of my resources to give my viewers. the most up to date and best information I can. Um, yeah. And I, I think I'm good at my job. I'm not perfect, but I'm doing my best.
[00:15:11] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well, I, I think the other thing that people might be interested in is, um, as you built kind of your YouTube channel, I think people are kind of blown away by the fact of you can actually make money at this in terms of the whole business side of things.
You might share a little bit about kind of your business model with, with all of this and just how that's worked for you.
[00:15:37] Kati Morton: Yeah, of course. Um, I mean, the easiest way people make money online is through YouTube AdSense. Um, so, and I, I have a, I struggle with this. I'm not, because it's mental health content, um, YouTube deems it sensitive.
And so not all My videos are monetizable, but that's a great way for people to make money. I mean, people in the outside of my realm, like friends of mine who, you know, get a ton of views. You get paid. They call it a CPM. It's like click per million, but it's really how much you get paid per thousand views roughly.
Um, and people can make a lot of money. You know thousands and thousands of dollars a month. Um, some people making hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. It's very crazy i'm not in that in that bubble because I don't have any I don't really do pop stuff that often like Pop culture hits and I don't like we were talking before we started recording Um, i'm not going to have like a viral hit on my channel.
That's really not the the ideal things That's not even what my goal is. Um, so there's adsense then there's brand deals I don't do a ton of brand deals because I I am protective of my audience. I feel like it You I'm not looking to exploit them. This is an educational forum. So Companies that I partnered with I feel like are companies that can offer resources to my audience that they might not know exist everything from um Better help like online therapy programs.
I think those are great, especially for rural people in rural communities and then also, um Another one I did was with Bumble BFF. It's a way to make friends through social media, like getting connections in your area to meet in real life. And I know a lot of my viewers struggle to meet good people and make friends.
And so any of the brand deals I do are kind of wrapped around that. And then the, I do do speaking engagements at schools and stuff to help educate. And then I wrote a book. My book came out last December. Or not this last December, the December prior. Um, so December of 2018. Um, and those are just a few ways that I, that I, you know, support myself.
I also have a Patrion account, um, which is because AdSense isn't very reliable for me on YouTube. I mean, it's probably 50 percent of my videos are advertiser friendly, 50 percent or not. And I don't want that to dictate what I create. Like there was suicide prevention week. Um, I think it's in September.
And I knew those videos wouldn't be monetized, but I was still going to create them cause they should exist. And so, um, Patreon is really the way that I have. Like consistent income so that I can pay my rent and my bills. Um, yeah, so it's just a bunch of different things We kind of just you know, hodgepodge it together.
Just make it work
[00:18:20] Gordon Brewer: Yeah, yeah. Yeah for for folks that aren't um familiar with patreon. It's like it's like a subscription kind of thing where Yes, people that are, you know, in the online space will get people to subscribe to their channel and that sort of thing and, and pay for it just as a way of paying it back.
[00:18:39] Kati Morton: Exactly. And they can get rewards too if they want, like I have different tiers and they can get extra live streams or thank you cards and things like that.
[00:18:47] Gordon Brewer: Yeah, yeah. It's a, it's a fascinating. Business model one that's in the back of my mind for things. Yeah, you should consider it. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah I know one of the other things too that I think I know you're still you're still doing a therapy practice, correct?
[00:19:03] Kati Morton: Correct Yes,
[00:19:04] Gordon Brewer: but it's just kind of on a limited basis to some degree and one of the things that we had talked about Um just briefly before we started recording is some of the ethical things that you've run into being, you know, kind of a public figure now and being out there and then people coming to you and, um, just being able to delineate between people that just want to see you because they're a fan versus people that truly are coming to you for therapy.
You want to talk a little bit about that?
[00:19:35] Kati Morton: Yeah, it's been a tricky thing. I don't think I ever thought about it. Starting out the channel to be honest. Um, but I for those people who don't understand the therapeutic relationship is something that should be Developed over time in therapy and it's really what makes therapy work I always tell people like you should feel this kind of click with your therapist where you're like, I like them They seem to hear me and understand me.
I would I wouldn't mind talking to them almost like a new friend
And
[00:20:05] Kati Morton: if people come into therapy And feel like they already know me um, and they think I can like fix all their problems it it kind of changes the dynamic of that relationship because Unfortunately therapists can't fix things for people.
I can't make you get better We can work on it together, but I can't work harder than you meaning You I can give you the tools and come to the table with as much information and helpful resources as possible But you're the one that has to do the hard work of integrating that into your life Um, and so over the years it's been a little bit trickier.
Um, it's harder to get what I would call like a a good referral of a patient meaning a patient that doesn't think that I know at all or Know of my online presence. Um And they're just really looking for a therapist. And so also because I travel, cause I do speak, um, and go to different events, um, it's harder for me to be in my practice all the time, which means some of my higher need patients I've had to refer out over the years, um, to people who are, you know, cause I, for a while I had patients, I've seen two or three times a week and I'm just only in my office two half days now.
So it's a little bit more limited. Um, and so, yeah, it's, it's been a, It was just as a side effect I wasn't prepared for, I guess, and something that I continue to navigate, um, as I, you know, continue to work. But I, I really do worry about losing touch with, you know, Patience and being in private practice and that's something that I hopefully don't have to fully give up Because I do there's nothing like being in the room with someone having those breakthrough moments Like you were saying you had a patient this week And I mean every therapist would understand that some days you walk out thinking man.
I'm horrible at my job today was horrible This was terrible this person having relapse of symptoms and there's other days you walk out and you're like, oh Um, so good today was a great day,
[00:21:52] Gordon Brewer: right?
[00:21:53] Kati Morton: Um, and both of those days are important to have and I I don't want to miss out on that and so I'll continue to assess and I talked to my colleagues a lot about it and um, You know just trying to find a nice balance where I can be there for my patients enough But I can also do the things I want to do to help Reach more people and you know, um, yeah, so it's it's it's interesting and I'll continue to assess it I assess it probably every few months just especially if a patient is like going to Kind of graduate in a way where it's like, okay Well, we'll go down to every other week or we won't see each other for a while and you can always call me You know, then I'd have to that have that decision to make of whether or not I filled out slot,
[00:22:35] Gordon Brewer: right?
Right. What's sort of the I guess for lack of a better term the vetting process you use around? Which which people, which patients you'll take and which you don't.
[00:22:47] Kati Morton: Um, first of all, coming from a good, uh, referral source, I have a few psychiatrists I work with closely and have good relationships over the years as well as dieticians because I do work, you know, eating disorders is my, my niche.
Um, so there's those, those are the two most common referral sources. Um, but then when I, it's still when I see a patient in my office, I, I have a form they fill out to tell me if they've been in therapy before, are they on medication? Um, You know, what kind of symptoms are you looking to get resolution for all those basic questions and then just sitting with them um within a session or two I can usually tell whether I think it's going to Be something that like i'm the best fit for them like recently I had to see I saw a patient once and I Referred her out to another clinician because I really felt that she needed like trauma specific care And even though I do deal with trauma in my practice, I'm not a specialist and I have a wonderful colleague of mine.
She's great. And so if I know that right off the get go, I can refer them out and not, you know, Save them time and money.
[00:23:47] Gordon Brewer: Right.
[00:23:48] Kati Morton: Um, but usually I'm looking now. It's It's highly motivated patients. I guess that's probably my biggest thing just because Um, I have limited time And I can't really take the high needs one as much as I, I used to love to do because I'm a, um, cause eating disorders and I do dialectical behavior therapy and, um, CBT and, you know, those are, can get a lot of borderline, uh, patients and self injury can coincide with that.
And I kind of missed having more patients like that, which I know is strange. A lot of clinicians are scared to work with those patients, but I find them to be the most rewarding. Um, yeah, so it's kind of shifted.
[00:24:27] Gordon Brewer: Right. Right. Yeah. Well, it's a, you know, what's interesting is, is that you're now, uh, as your practice, I I'm going to call it a practice and it's really more than that, uh, with your, just your YouTube channel and, and all that you're doing.
Um, how, I'm curious as to how you devote your time. How do you, um, because obviously from just watching your videos, you're doing a lot of recording.
[00:24:57] Kati Morton: Yeah, over the years a lot. Um, yeah, for a while there even had three jobs. People are always like, how'd you do it? And I'm like, I don't know. I blocked it out.
Um, I forget. Um, a lot of scheduling. Unfortunately, I actually don't mind it. I thrive in structure and I thrive having there's a certain amount of busyness that I'm super Effective at and so it's over the years is getting better to understand what that is for me because everyone's gonna be different like I'm not a morning person.
Like I can't start work at 7 a. m That's never gonna work for me, but I can get up and I can go to yoga or I can do something for myself at that time And then I can jump into my day. And so, um, I am very, very, like, scheduled, structured around how long I'm going to spend on something, what I need to do today.
Um, I've learned through tons of research because I'm always reading something and, um, You know, trying to better understand things for my viewers, and I know that we can't have to do lists that are longer than seven things
because
[00:25:57] Kati Morton: it's not attainable. And one of those things on the list can't be like, record six podcasts.
You know, that's just not, not feasible. And I've gotten better at structuring my days to include the things that I can. Complete so that I can put checks in boxes. So I feel motivated. Um, yeah, and I i've gotten something that I struggled with a couple of years ago was just self care like finding time for myself I was definitely struggling with burnout writing it was when I was writing the book Um and doing the videos and it just got to be too much for me.
Um, and so I I put in self care things and they're non negotiable. They can't be rescheduled I put them in calendar just like I would anything else and so some of that's just helped me do it over the years I also have an assistant That works part time and that's been really helpful for scheduling email management stuff like that Yeah, I'm not afraid to outsource that I can't do.
[00:26:53] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. And that, that, that was one of the things I was just commenting on is, is that, I know when I reached out to you about being on the podcast, what was impressive is you had a team of people that, that handled that stuff for you, uh, which, which leaves you to do the creative and stuff that, that, that really is the best use of your time, which is, which is great.
Yeah,
[00:27:17] Kati Morton: and it took me years. I mean, this is only in the last year or two. I've slowly brought people on. Um, I think I was Scared to lose that connection, but it's really not like scheduling isn't something I have to be a part of you know it because As as things get busier it gets harder for me to make time for everything And so if there's certain things that I don't have to be a part of it's right It's been really helpful and I think everyday people can relate to that when it comes to You know if you don't have time to clean your house You can have someone come and clean it for you or get your groceries delivered or you know Wherever you live depending on what's accessible to you.
There are ways that we can Order on at Walmart and drive in and put it in our trunk and we drive away, you know, right get more effective, right? Over the years. I've added some things in like that So that I can maximize my time,
[00:28:07] Gordon Brewer: right? Right. Well, this is Katie I want to be respectful of your time And I know they're just so much we can spend our time talking about and I'm glad that you joined me today Tell folks the best way to reach you and and Uh, tell them about your book and how they can get that and we'll we'll put all these links in the show notes in the show summary for people have easy access to
[00:28:30] Kati Morton: yeah, the best way to find me or to see if I probably already have a video answering some questions you might have is just My youtube channel.
My name is katimorton k a t i m o r t o n across all socials. You can find me that way Um my book are you okay a guide to caring for your mental health? Um is available wherever books are and I even did my own audio book You I wrote the book 100 percent myself. Um, and it's kind of just a where to start what to ask.
Um, Yeah, when it comes to therapy relationships and all those great things.
[00:29:00] Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah, that's great And like I said, we'll have those in the show notes and you do some speaking you've got to Big speaking engagements coming up that people might want to know about.
[00:29:10] Kati Morton: Um, I, I'm going to, well this weekend, I know it's a quick turn around, but I'm going to Playlist Live in Orlando, which is like a YouTube creator event, but I am speaking at the University of Oshkosh, uh, it's University of Wisconsin in Oshkosh, um, mid March, um, and potentially some other stuff in April that's still waiting to come through.
Um, follow, follow me on social media. I always share on Twitter and Instagram what I'm doing and where I'm at. you Yeah, I'd love to meet you. I promise I'm friendly. If you see me in public, say hi. I always hate when people tweet me later and say, I saw you at Starbucks. I'm like, you can say, hi, I promise I'm friendly.
[00:29:46] Gordon Brewer: That's great. Well, folks, be sure to check out Katie's YouTube channel. It's a delight to watch. And, um, and Katie, thanks again for taking the time to be on the podcast and hopefully we can have some other conversations in the future.
[00:30:00] Kati Morton: Yeah, I'd love that. Thanks for having me.