The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer
This is letting me know we're recording. So are we sure. So, okay. Well, hello everyone and welcome again to the podcast. And I'm really excited about this episode because I've got some dear friends with me. They have all been on the podcast before. But this is the first time ever that we have been able to get together as a group live, we meet regularly for our mastermind group, but I'm just gonna let them introduce themselves again and tell why they're here. And we just wanted you all to listen in to a conversation we've been having. That's just kind of highlights from the conversations we've been having this weekend as we've been on retreat together. So, Jessica, why don't you start off?

Jessica Tappana
Okay. I'm Jessica tapana. And I have a group practice private practice in Columbia, Missouri. And then I also have simplified SEO consulting, helping therapists who have websites, get them to show up better on search engines.

Whitney Owens
I'm Whitney Owens, and I own a group practice in Savannah, Georgia called watersedge. counseling. We just hired our ninth therapist this week. So I'm really super excited about that cash pay only. And then I also do consulting through practice the practice, helping people build and scale group practices, and also have a podcast the faith and practice podcast about using faith within your business. Yep. We got four

Unknown Speaker
states covered here, right? Yes. From Gordon, I'm from Tennessee,

Uriah Guilford
Tennessee, Missouri, Georgia, in California,

Whitney Owens
and we're recording in in North Carolina. Yeah, yeah.

Uriah Guilford
I'm Uriah Guilford. I've got a group practice in Northern California, working with families called Guilford family counseling. And I've also got a business called productive therapist, and we provide world class virtual assistants for therapists so they can get more done and have more fun. Yeah,

Gordon Brewer
yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Well, you know, I thought that occurred to me this morning, as I was thinking about this recording is is that all of us have to be at least two businesses that we're running. And so yeah, so what what's that been like for everybody? I mean, just making that dive. And, you know, a theme that people hear from me a lot on the podcast, is how it's important to maybe try to diversify income at times. And so what, what have you learned about that?

Uriah Guilford
I'll make a quick comment real quick. That's part of the reason why we came together. Yes. Why each other with the unique challenges of owning multiple businesses? Yeah. Sorry, I missed it.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, no, that's fine. That's fine. Yeah.

Jessica Tappana
I think there's so much that goes into it. Right. And it is a unique challenge. And that's what I appreciate about having this group of people that are also balancing those hats and those different roles. And um, yeah, it's great that I can bounce things off you guys, because sometimes it feels like what people on the podcast could hear, but there's a little birdie.

Gordon Brewer
birdie caught here.

Whitney Owens
For the past three days, every time it goes off, we all like look around scared. Oh, my gosh, what do

Unknown Speaker
we forget?

Jessica Tappana
Sorry, Jessica. But I feel like the thing I love about having two businesses is there's always excitement, right? Like, there may be days where I wake up, and I feel a little bit less excited about doing one thing, but I can be super excited about doing the other thing. And there can be that balance. And I often have said like, it feels like a lot of people in my world don't don't see the full picture of what it's like to have both. And maybe don't see. Don't see some of the stress that comes with that. But I think one of the realizations that I've had in talking to you guys and in my self exploration, you know, is that I think that I bring me no matter which business I'm working in at that moment. And that really, my values and my priorities might look different, and how they show up in each of the businesses, but I'm still me. And at the end of the day, I'm finding more similarities. Oh, like I do this over there. And I really appreciate that. And it's very similar actually, to how I approach this thing over run this business. Yeah, that's been I think

Gordon Brewer
one thing about our weekend together that has helped me a great deal, as I think it is, we know as practice owners and business owners is it can get very isolating at times. And I think what comes what comes with that, at least for me is a little bit if not a lot, sometimes of imposter syndrome, really feeling like you know, what we're doing is just doesn't seem genuine or that that sort of thing. It was affirming for me to hear from them their impression of what I'm doing and being able to share, share all that with each other. And so yeah, so so why don't why don't we take turns just kind of, you've kind of led us off here, Jessica with kind of what you're learning along the way with through this weekend. So what else? What are the thoughts are you guys,

Uriah Guilford
I think one of the most valuable things for me, honestly, is the feedback that I get from the three of you, who we've only been together for maybe six months or so as a group, but the feedback is invaluable. I literally wrote down all these questions that I all I wanted was to get your thoughts on what I'm working on what I'm thinking about, because even though I have a leadership team, for both of my businesses, they still don't understand what it's like to be in my shoes, and to be making the kind of decisions that I'm making. And so when we can, you know, sit on a boat on the lake, and yeah, and eat some sandwiches and have some beverages

Unknown Speaker
to work at the pool behind,

Uriah Guilford
it's beautiful. But I asked those questions, do you think I should go this way, or this way you think I should do this or this? Because even though we might seem like we always know what we're doing to the outside world, possibly. We're just trying to figure it out as we go. So I have like, 1,000% more confidence now that three of you have said I think we should do is this?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney Owens
Thank you. Like, that's so cool. It's just cool. Like, we all struggle, but then knowing that we're helping one another, and hearing your experiences is really on humbling as it shapes the future of our businesses.

Gordon Brewer
Right, what about for you? I mean, what would you say are the big things for you

Whitney Owens
and the community, you know, and I'm a, I'm an extrovert, if you can figure that out. Yeah. And so you know, the pandemics been very isolating, but then also, it's isolating. And you kind of spoke to this Jessica being a practice owner, being a consultant. Another thing that we Some of us have in common here is like caring for people that have special needs to some capacity. And so having people who understand that part about me, getting out of the house and being with people, and just seeing that there's a world outside of my little world, you know, I get so used to my bubble, the consulting that I do, but there's so many amazing people doing great things like last night, we got to get together with some amazing people and hear about their businesses. And you just realize that, like, there's so much connection, and the importance that if we connect, the practice is going to move forward, or the work of counseling, you know, and, and so that's been really helpful for me, and just bringing my confidence back up and who I am getting affirmation from you guys.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, you know, well, it's, um, it The thing that I think is so important for anybody, regardless of which stage they are, in their practice, is to be able to have a group of people that are trusted, that you can be totally vulnerable with and share your life. I mean, that's as we know, as therapists and counselors. That's the power of therapy. And what Kawata groups, empower groups is having that community where you can absolutely share everything. Yeah, yeah. Rachel, you might want to

Uriah Guilford
share everything, party clocks and phone calls. I've had a handful of mastermind groups that have been in over the years, a couple of them started and then didn't really go. And people weren't, like, maybe it was not the right group of people the right time. And it was disappointing. But there's two main mastermind groups that I've been ended up like, one lunch, productive therapist, I think, with Ernesto and Maureen and a couple other folks, and who knows what's coming next for for all of us after this one, but I really believe in it. I tell everybody, like find a mastermind group. It can be peer LED, it could be facilitator LED, it almost doesn't matter. But it's awesome.

Jessica Tappana
You know, listening to you guys, the thing that's really sticking out to me, is the confidence you're a you said I have more confidence taking the next steps. And I think that that's what I'm leaving with to I didn't come as prepared with a great list of very specific questions. When we talked about our intentions at the beginning of the skip together. I was like, you know, just figuring out like the next three months, and I haven't had any major change in direction that I'm going to take but I feel really confident with the steps I've taken. Even just you guys asked me questions like, Oh, well why do you interact with that staff member that way? Like, why do you do this? Even just having to give you you know, those reasoning and listening to your thoughts and your observations. I'm like, Oh, I like this path that I'm on the changes that you know, we've made it simplified in the last six months I really like and getting in having to talk about those. I feel like I'm going back with like this renewed excitement, like Okay, look, let's take those next steps.

Unknown Speaker
We're good energy. Yeah.

Jessica Tappana
And that excitement is so important, right? Because Because owning a business is hard. Practice is hard, managing people is hard. coping with clients and hearing their heaviness is hard. And we need to get that take care of ourselves so we can go back with that energy. Right?

Gordon Brewer
Right. Yeah. Well, it said the other thing, too is what with this weekend that we've been on is we didn't really come with a specific agenda. I mean, so they're their lenders, man, really very little to no structure to any. Although we've had a great time and the cars that we've been doing the Michael chess day, Michael chest, thanks. Okay, a shout out to Mike. And I'll probably have links in the show notes here of how you can chime in as cards, changes cards. And they're, they're really cool. And we've been asking some very deep questions of each other. And it's really, at least for me, it's really just been again, a firming up said that already, but to be able to do those kinds of things. So I'm

Whitney Owens
going to be spontaneous that we should do a card here at the end of the episode. Once we get to the end, let's do one card. Yeah, everyone can see it. And it's been an experience for us. I would love to like, just share a little bit about how we all met, because I think there's something to be said, for getting out of your comfort zone and meeting people that you maybe wouldn't even necessarily think would be someone that you get close to, you know, and taking risks and that and so I'll share a little bit about kind of how, and you'll fill in some of the details. So Gordon was the first one that I met and actually had heard his name many times before I met you. Yes. And we met through Joe Sanok script, next level living room, and he was you're in a different mastermind, I think that was at the time. And he invited all of us to come to his house. And I was like, Okay, here are the list of people going I'm gonna meet Gordon Brewer like, what's on my agenda to become your friend because I admired you and the work you were doing with your podcasts already on the front agenda? That's true. Yes. Yeah. And so that is that was so neat, but like even thinking about going to next level living room and how nervous I was to go and meet all these practice owners, I felt like an imposter who had this tiny little group practice that really I wasn't even making money yet. You know, and, and everything about getting there was awful. Like, the weather was terrible. My flight. My flight literally got canceled the night before. And it was the next morning. just completely canceled anyway, ended up getting there on three flights. And so really grateful for that. And so it's like we connected. It was that? That was 2018.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, okay. It wasn't 18. Well, yeah. April that year. Oh, yeah. And then there was like a foot of snow on the ground. And Trevor says,

Whitney Owens
Yes, I love wearing

Jessica Tappana
my boots. You're from Georgia.

Whitney Owens
I was like, let me take my snow boots. Yes, yes. And then I met Jessica, also through a mastermind group. And some mastermind groups are just this amazing way to, to connect

Jessica Tappana
first, like real conversation, like on the phone. You were helping me find a VA. And you said you wanted to like the VA? Like change

Whitney Owens
things? Oh, my friend. Yeah, gosh, and

Jessica Tappana
you said here, let me hop on a call with you. And we talked on the phone. And it was like, it was like a, it was such a good moment, because we hadn't really met in person. We hadn't really had individual conversations. And I distinctly remember walking around barefoot in my backyard talking to you about this. And it was so helpful, because I knew I'd had issues. People to help. I'd gone through like several days and you're like, Okay, girl, you gotta change your approach here.

Uriah Guilford
That's so cool. Oh, yeah.

Whitney Owens
I can think of lots of calls and where I was sitting when we had conversations on the phone about really important business things. And

Jessica Tappana
that was the first one that was Yeah,

Uriah Guilford
right. Jessica and I met 2019 at therapy reimagined conference, in sort of an impromptu mastermind group. Literally, we were all sitting around, like talking about ideas about online courses. And we were sitting next to each other and I didn't

Jessica Tappana
do i mean nobody, I was so scared going back. I've been I was more nervous to go that conference than I ever been to go to like any conference before, because I didn't know anybody. And then Marissa Wotton. I ran into her in the first day and we'd spoken online before and so I was like, Okay, I kind of sorta know one person, and she's awesome. And then and then yeah, we ended up at the end just with this group of just really rocks

Uriah Guilford
are all like group coaching each other. Yeah. In the hotel bar.

Jessica Tappana
I was wishing that I had like, I notes and was writing it down. But I still got so much because literally every was like, here's a tidbit here. Here's 10 but there's, like power

Uriah Guilford
Community Plan or spontaneous structure. structure. That's right. Yeah. Right. And then I don't know how you. I mean, you invited me to this. Yes, basically, yes. Your podcast.

Whitney Owens
Yes. So with group practice, boss, we were trying to interview somebody about goal setting unbelief. Yes. And I reached out to another consultant, she said He was busy, but I should reach out to your I Guilford, I was like, I've heard his name before. And so I emailed you and he came on. And while I'm doing the interview, I was like, dang, this guy's cool. Like, I like that guy. And then he came on the podcast, I can't remember if it was one or the other. It was around the same time. And so when we were creating this group, and I was just thinking about the types of people I wanted to be spending my time with, you came to mind and I was like, I don't think he's gonna want to do this. Like, I'm gonna get my guts together, because we don't really know each other. Right? Like you barely knew him. It wasn't like you want to be in a mastermind.

Uriah Guilford
Medium size. Ask somebody that you don't know.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah. And you were like, sure, tell me more. And I was like, Ah, yeah.

Uriah Guilford
I mean, in fact, I almost broke up with my other mastermind group for this one. But I stayed in both. Yeah. Yeah,

Jessica Tappana
yeah. I remember us talking and you're like if you have you met your I was like, Yeah, he's really cool. He taught me how to like, send my own contact my own information to my phone, you remember? Like he knows all things.

Uriah Guilford
nerdy tips. Yeah.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, it's it's been just a rich relationship. And I'm looking forward to it all of this continuing and we I will say that I've gotten more done this weekend, even though we had no agenda. And just being able to get focused and thinking about my, the goals for not not only for my life, just individually, because we as I've shared on the podcast, I've got you know, some challenges with my wife and her disability but but also just getting a refocus with the practice of therapy and what the direction I want it to go and then also my practice, my private practice itself. And what's funny is we all have you heard somebody

Jessica Tappana
said, like, five Yeah, I've hired five in the last few weeks, but to always been here that I've sent them

Gordon Brewer
right. And you and I hired somebody the same day, which is cool. For our practices. So I mean, it's just, again, I think, the one thing about this, this group and really kind of maybe the point to this episode is, is create a community for yourself if you're not in one, find one. Get involved and take the risk of getting to know people that maybe you know, the other thing too is I think it's therapists are pretty safe people are so yeah, so that's been nice and you're just knowing how we can we treat each other with our with our inner world is like that's that's important thing is

Uriah Guilford
also the power of downtime, and resting and recharging even when you're not being productive. Like makes you so much more energized and productive when you can, yes, whatever the thing is,

Jessica Tappana
like, go out on a boat, and you come back with new ideas for business. Yeah, yeah,

Uriah Guilford
it's true. Or set out walking in nature. Yeah, whatever it is.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah. So we've, we've done, we did a hike in the boat on the same day, and then we, we are in as we're recording this, we're in Lake luer, North Carolina. My family has a place here and we're just kind of just chilling and doing some just doing that kind of work. And then we got together with others, some other private practice consultants last night and today and Ashfall today, so you know, do a bold shout out to ernestus says when good did Ernesto and Alison per year and Jane Carter and consolidate

Uriah Guilford
Michael Dietrich testing?

Gordon Brewer
Yeah. So yeah, so a little bit of name dropping here. But, anyway, yeah. Do we want to fit

Uriah Guilford
on one? Or do you want the one on the bottom? That's pretty good.

Gordon Brewer
That sounds good. Oh,

Uriah Guilford
okay. The question is, it's under the category of guts. What helps you feel bold? I'll go first. And so nobody steals my answer. Having the support and affirmation of the three of you makes me feel confident, like I said before, confident and bold.

Gordon Brewer
That's his first one.

Jessica Tappana
No fair, because that's that's

Whitney Owens
my answer as well. Actually.

Gordon Brewer
No, well, I would just say I would what I would add to this. Yeah, is being vulnerable, makes you feel bold.

Jessica Tappana
And making big, big moves. Like, I've never hired five people across the two businesses before. That's huge. And I can only do it because of the support of the teams that I have at both business. And that you guys have been so instrumental in my leadership ability. But I think part of Yeah, like you said, but having this team here means that, you know, I think there will be bumps along the way onboarding that many people will even with the help of my amazing team that are without a doubt smarter than I am But I'll still run into those challenges and being in knowing I can come back to you guys and be like, Okay guys remind me never to hire this or this part of the system is broken, this process is broken and

Uriah Guilford
they worked out amazingly. Because that's gonna happen to. Okay.

Whitney Owens
So how to do this? Right, right?

Jessica Tappana
Yeah, a lot of a lot of it is figuring out how much of it I can outsource but do so while you know maintaining that quality, which is something else that I've talked about not outsourced outside our business. But my delegate, delegate. Yes, internally delegate. But yeah, no, I think that that makes me much more confident. like okay, I can make this big move.

Uriah Guilford
It's great, right? That's another takeaways, I

Gordon Brewer
think, yeah, you got one more card.

Uriah Guilford
Here's a nourishment card. What usually helps you feel wonderfully rested,

Jessica Tappana
lazy day at home with my family, where nothing in particular is expected. And no work.

Uriah Guilford
actually really like unstructured time. So when there's not a plan, and I can kind of decide what you like doing right now. sit out on the porch, reading the book, listening to music. That's great. And without without, like, kids asking me for things.

Gordon Brewer
Right.

Whitney Owens
Don't going to go back to what we just talked about. But I feel rested when I'm in a community where I can fully be myself. Right.

Gordon Brewer
From that, right. Where you don't feel like the pressure of being on.

Uriah Guilford
Yeah, I think for you to not be in a place where you don't have to take care of other people so much. Yes, right.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah. Yeah. That's, that was good. It was good.

Unknown Speaker
How about you? Yeah,

Gordon Brewer
I would say the same. And I think you know, this is simple as this is just simply some good sleep. It's just not a great way to get a quiet place and not having to have not having to set my alarm and yeah, just getting getting up when we get up. That's that's been great. I agree. Yeah.

Uriah Guilford
This is fun. Yeah, it is. Yeah.

Gordon Brewer
Well, thank you guys for being on on this particular episode. And hopefully, for those of you listening yet this has been helpful day listening to our conversations. I know that that is something that I love for people to do is just listen in on conversations. I think it's just meaningful, meaningful stuff. Yeah. So thank you, Gordon. Thank you, guys.