The Practice of Therapy

Gordon Brewer: Well, hello everyone. And I'm really happy for you to get to know today, Maureen Codispodi. Maureen is located on the West coast of Canada. So we're, Pretty far apart distance wise, but we were just talking about the fact that I was up in that part of the world not too long ago and just enjoyed how beautiful it is.
But Maureen, why don't you tell folks, as I start with everyone, a little bit more about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed.
Maureen Codispodi: I have been a professional for about 25 years now, and I, in my professional career, I started in community based mental health.
I moved into education, and then I moved into learning services, and now into clinical counseling and therapy, and I have had an amazing life experience. And, you know, in, in the 20 years or so that I lived abroad. I, I've learned so much about many different cultures and, and what happens in the world and how, how cultures and communities live and work and how that impacts, you know, individual experiences.
And I always had a sort of dream to, to be able to work and help people in a different capacity. In 2009, I actually cycled across Canada. I'm quite the adventurer, and I love, I love a great experience, and I, on that journey, you know, I, I was fundraising for breast cancer, and I met the most amazing people along that journey, and, I had conversations with men talking about their, you know, their wives, their daughters.
And people just really opened up to me. And at that time I wasn't a therapist, but those memories of those like deep personal conversations with those people really stayed with me and just understanding, you know, the, Small communities in Canada, how they're different from the big cities and, you know, east to west, how the landscape of Canada changes and how that really impacts people's experiences.
And, you know, being in little remote communities where there's limited services and that sort of thing, it really always stuck with me. And so, you know, thinking about my, my life and my professional career and my lived experiences overseas and that trip. This idea of, of help clinic Canada kind of came to me and I created a space where, you know, no matter where you live in Canada, you can access mental health support with virtual therapy.
And we're really proud to, you know, create a space that's ethical as well as reducing barriers for the people trying to access it and I, and I just. Really, I'm proud to say that, you know, all of the things that have happened in my life, you know, it's not been a, a straight road have led me to this place to create this space for other people where they can get the support that they need.
And, you know, I Yeah, I'm just a very passionate helping professional and, and that's my life goal, right,
Gordon Brewer: Well, what, what an adventure cycling across Canada. That must have been just I can only imagine that it was a life changing event for, for you. Yeah. Yeah. And my, and my heart goes out to you for just for the breast cancer awareness.
I think most of the people that listen to the podcast are aware a little bit of my story. And I don't know if you are Maureen, but I lost my wife to breast cancer last year. And so just the understanding of the care and all of that sort of thing around that, and particularly spouses and that sort of thing is something that's near and dear to my heart as well.
Maureen Codispodi: Gordon, I didn't know that and I'm so thank you for sharing that I have listened to your podcast and I'm sure you've shared that, but I didn't hear those episodes and I, you know, my heart goes out to you and I, you know, you do see what I kind of saw on the road there and it's fascinating to me.
You know, care for men and mental health is still harder for men, right? And, and you would know as a practitioner you know, and, and having a space where men feel safe to share feelings and, and things like that can be really hard. And the impacts of something like that have a certain ripple effect, right?
And I'm certain it probably has impacted your clients in a, in a great way.
Gordon Brewer: Right. And I think you know, fortunately I've had just tons of great support around me through the whole Whole experience and yeah, I don't, not to digress too much down that trail, but yeah, it's the lived experience is certain, certainly different than the intellectual knowledge of it.
So, I mean, that's just, you know, yeah, very true, but yeah, so I, you know, one of the, one of the things that I think is intriguing is, is that there's this this passion that you have around making mental health services available to people that maybe have difficulty finding it or that sort of thing.
And tell us more about that journey and how you put help clinic together and what that's been like for you.
Maureen Codispodi: So. One of the things that I realized, and obviously COVID kind of left this gift, I like to say, where people are really more open to online therapy. I think that it's important to recognize that, you know, there is limited access to many people in Canada.
And I'm sure that it's similar in the U. S. Where you have small communities in the middle of nowhere. You know, and even if you do have access to extended health benefits or the funds to pay for the therapy you may not have anyone that can support you in your community. And if you do, that might be your neighbor or your friend.
And so creating a space where people can go and have autonomy and agency over their choice of therapist and creating spaces where it's convenient. Easily accessible is really important. Also the landscape of, of sort of costs of therapy across Canada differ depending on, like, urban and rural.
And so we have sort of created a fee structure that it, it, it, reduce the costs slightly for people that pay full fees, and most of that those fees go into our independent contractors pocket. So our take home from our company is very little. So it's reducing barriers in that it creates opportunity for more therapy for people with their extended health benefits.
And then in the fall. So in a. A few short weeks, we're launching our low fee counseling, which is really the passion project of mine. And so we have amazing practicum students starting who are going to be taking on clients for low fees across Canada. And so that is going to be able to reduce so many barriers for so many people.
And And enable so many people to get access to therapy that wouldn't otherwise have it. The structure of, you know, mental health support in Canada certainly is, you know, if you have a job or you have a situation where you have extended health benefits, it's great. You still may have limited access.
And then if you don't have the access or you don't have the funds to pay out of pocket, it's really difficult to get mental health support. And so trying to create a social enterprise that Supports and breaks down. Those barriers is really the crux of the company. And so we have kind of both you know, the full fee and the low fee and and just making sure that we're really conscious in creating ethical pricing for everybody.
Gordon Brewer: Right, right. How, I'm curious, how do you determine, I guess, what, which clients fit into which fee structure and all of that sort of thing?
Maureen Codispodi: That's a great question. The so the full fee counseling, you know, is definitely for people that have extended health benefits. And then the low fee The low fee structure.
There's an application form and ask some very simple questions like do you have extended health benefits? Can you afford therapy? And people are able to self disclose that information and we take it on an honor system. And then we're able to match those people that don't have the benefits or have the means with the low fee program.
And otherwise, you know, it's really just on an honor system. But I think that most people are honest about these things and We do charge a minimal fee, but I think that just ensures continuity of care and ensures that the therapists that are working with the clients also get their needs met in terms of their education and having clients.
But our intention is that the low fee clients can have ongoing. Care and that we won't cut off sort of at six sessions or something like that. And so, you know, we, yeah, we internally you know, review all of the applications and try to make best matches with our practicum students, as well as our full fee counselors, depending.
And then our full fee counselors have all agreed to take on at least one low fee client. And so some maybe more complex cases or cases that need a little bit more experience, we'll match those with our experienced and licensed therapists.
Gordon Brewer: Yes. Yes. And I think you know, one of the things maybe just to mention is, is that for folks that aren't necessarily.
Familiar with the health care health care system in Canada. It's a good bit different than it is here in the States and that you've got and you correct me if I'm explaining this wrong. You've got universal health care and then people can opt in to get kind of like. Additional services if they, if they choose to, is that correct?
Maureen Codispodi: So we have universal health care that covers like basic healthcare needs, and then every province would have differences in terms of what's covered in terms of accessing public services. Health care. So in the terms of mental health, it's very difficult to access publicly funded mental health care, especially therapy.
Those would probably be more extreme cases of mental health or, or different reasons for those mental health care needs. But you know, it's, it's viewed as sort of that sick model. So anybody that's trying to be proactive or has, you know, some general anxiety or, you know, just. Wants to get some support with their mental health.
You would have to have extended health benefits or pay out of pocket to be able to access therapy in general. Some provinces are starting to create programs that do cover Therapy. But this is very, very beginning stages. And so I, you know, we're all hopeful that you know, things will change in, in the landscape of mental health in Canada, certainly.
But it is a gap in our, in our country. And you know, while we do have amazing publicly funded men are publicly funded health care. There's lack of access to services. There's many communities that people don't even have doctors. There's, you know, a shortage of. Of support in general for health in Canada.
So, you know, it's not a perfect landscape, but it, it, it definitely, you know, it's nice to be able to be in a country where, you know, everyone has access to go to the doctors when they need to, or should they need to. You know, that's, it's really, we're very fortunate for that for sure. Yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yes. Definitely.
Well, as far as that goes yeah. And so your, your focus is on really, it sounds like people that it I'm assuming that your, your, your company is pretty much all telehealth must, is that a correct assumption that everything's telehealth? Yeah. Yeah,
Maureen Codispodi: we actually utilize a platform called Jane app and that's a Canadian based virtual mental health platform.
And so we can we can run sort of video sessions. We can do telephone sessions. It allows us to sort of have robust access. Well You know, they, they kind of sorry, hopefully you can edit this. They they help us to ensure that we are abiding by all the laws and all the standards. So, in Canada, you know, some of the laws are a little bit different.
We have POIPA and PEPEDA, which regulate how we handle information. And so, JNAP allows us to ensure that we're, we're using all the right things. Systems.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Yeah. So it'd be akin to what we refer to as HIPAA here in the United States. Yeah. Correct.
Maureen Codispodi: Yeah. Sure.
Gordon Brewer: Sure. Yeah. So I'm wondering you know, how, how are people finding you?
In other words, how are you marketing this to people and what are you finding that works? Because yeah, you're having to reach the whole country. Yeah.
Maureen Codispodi: So we, we only officially launched May 6, which is in line with mental health week in Canada. And we are slowly gaining clients for, for all of our team. And most of the clients that we have already have been through word of mouth and referrals, which is kind of, you know, how, practices start, right?
And we're only going into a phase now of, of sort of starting to advertise. And yeah, we're, our intention is that we will grow with all of the advertising that is about to happen. But so far it's, it's been honestly, just been good old fashioned word of mouth and networking and putting ourselves out there as a team and as well as, you know, me strongly advocating and getting out there in the community and, and being in the news and, and, you know, wherever I can, just getting the word out about our company.
And that's, and that's really where we started and, you know, our intention is to grow and to reach more people.
Gordon Brewer: You're right. Right. Yeah. So are your, are the people that the contractors that you have with you, are they, I'm assuming, again, I don't want to make too many assumptions, but are they located all over Canada or they correct.
Maureen Codispodi: No, so they're all all the sorry to interrupt you. All the independent contractors are located throughout Canada. And then different clinicians have different credentials for different provinces. There's different regulations, obviously, in terms of Backgrounds and that sort of thing. Not all the provinces in Canada are regulated.
So we have therapists and all, almost every single regulated province. The only province that we don't cover right now or territory is Quebec. And otherwise we have therapists that are dotted around the country and some of them hold multiple credentials for different provinces. And then for the unregulated provinces, we have You know, qualified therapists who have credentials in other in other ways.
So we only have a few colleges right now, but the province that I'm in currently BC is all is starting to the process of regulating psychotherapy in the province. So it's pretty exciting times. And yeah, so we're all dotted around the country. And so there's a lot of time zone discussions and also you know, virtual meetings and conversations with people you know, and, and that's just how we operate.
Gordon Brewer: All right. Right. What have been your biggest challenges so far? With without getting this going.
Maureen Codispodi: Yeah. Some of the biggest challenges I would say is just ensuring that, you know, team communications are, are seamless and creating spaces where everybody can join, because many of our independent contractors have other things going on.
They have, you know, different places that they work. Some work for. Some work for, you know hospitals, some work, other private practices, that sort of thing. So just creating spaces and time that works for everybody and creating that cohesion, but it's starting to happen. And, you know, we're starting to create that.
Really amazing supportive space for people to communicate with each other and you know, just having internal spaces for people to, to connect and support each other has is really important. And, you know, it's just takes time to establish all of those things. I think some of the other, you know, obstacles are really just like business related obstacles you know, and.
I am, I don't come from a business background, but I've built this company and, you know, I, I know what skills I do have. And I try to outsource all the ones that I don't. But sometimes I just have to learn how to do different things. And, and so I think I sometimes have been the biggest obstacle, but also, you know, If I, if I don't do it, then sometimes the needle is not going to move.
Right. So I'm, I'm sort of the person in the driver's seat, but you know, I'm starting to build a great team around me that support me with everything. And yeah, it's, it's definitely a labor of love at this point.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Right. Right. Well, it sounds, sounds like a wonderful organization. How are you recruiting your therapists and students that are working with you?
Maureen Codispodi: Yeah, so we originally put out a job posting in I think December and we had an enormous enormous response and so we continue to keep recruitment open but we only advertised, I think, for three days. And it's just on, yeah, it's just ongoing. And open and so as there's like needs or specific niches, then we then we'll hire from that candidate pool.
And then in terms of the students we actually connected with different universities across the country to try to form relationships with the universities 1st so that we could support their students. We could we could obviously open it up and we do have the recruitment page open for students, but we we primarily focus on the universities that we have the established relationships with as a primary source.
And I think that just having the support of the. Universities is really important. And knowing that they align and they believe in our values and our, and our mission, I think is, is sort of primary for us because we do believe in creating safe and supportive learning environments for the students that we serve.
You know, as I said, I, I come from an education background too, so I know how important learning is and. You know, that's this is one of the most important parts of our company, as I said, and I feel super passionate about creating spaces for students and you know, having it be a win win for everybody sort of thing.
Gordon Brewer: Right, right. Yeah. Are there how, how do you. How do people typically fill their caseloads? I mean, are you finding that that's a difficult thing or is it pretty easy to fill somebody's caseload?
Maureen Codispodi: Yeah. So right now it's a little bit challenging. We've started out slow. So some of our therapists, you know, are starting out with a few clients and they, you know, the best thing that works really is when the therapist and I work together to build those caseloads.
I think that it's not, You know, we're not just here to advertise for those independent contractors, but we do create the space and, you know, create the space for them to have those clients. And so the ones that have been more successful in filling their caseloads, it's definitely been a team effort.
But as we grow, and I think awareness comes from the company, I think that, you know, that That will tip a little bit more on our side. And because we only have just started to invest financially in advertising and that sort of thing we'll probably see a tip to more of our, you know, responsibility and also filling those caseloads will get much, much easier.
But definitely I think anybody that starts a private practice or a group practice, I think, you know, it's slow and steady. And some people comment that we have so many therapists. And I think it's important to know that the company that we created, we wanted to create what we wanted it to be from the outset and not like grow into the shoes of it, but rather say, this is who we are.
This is what we are. And so all of our therapists kind of, as I said, have many things going on. So they, you know, they all, they all know that it's sort of slow and steady. And that's, you know, our intention because we do want the space to be as it is, and we do want it to be accessible across the country.
Gordon Brewer: Yes, that's I think one of the things that I've learned in my own practice, the more you can encourage your therapist to kind of build their own caseloads rather than it just all falling on the owner to do that. Yeah. Yeah. So how many clinicians do you have so far?
Maureen Codispodi: We have just over, I think we have 33 at the moment and then in the fall, we will have we have 11 interns starting, but 4 of those interns are bachelor students, they won't be clinical interns and then the other 7 practicum students We'll be taking on those low fee clients.
So and all in all, we'll have about 40 clinic clinicians able to take clients at both full fee and low fee. Yeah, so it's really exciting.
Gordon Brewer: What sort of challenges are you finding just managing that many people?
Maureen Codispodi: Just making sure that there's continuity and communications, I think Also, you know, I understand uniquely that like everybody is different, everybody has, you know, different ways of communicating.
And as I said, we wanted to create a really diverse team. And so that diversity also includes, you know, styles of communication and how, you know, you know, how they are as a therapist, who they are as a human being. And I think I have a lot of space for, for managing different personalities and ensuring that people feel that their needs are being met.
And so just you know, I'm often able to sort of give grace to situations that You know, if I wanted everyone to conform to my way of thinking wouldn't maybe exist. And I, and I really do believe in, you know, self efficacy and, and self agency and having therapists that have their own way of being.
And so we do, you know, we, we are committed to that diversity, but it can have its challenges of course. And I think, you know, I, I, With my, you know, my own lived experience. I'm able to kind of manage all those personalities and all those things. But, you know, it's a work in progress for sure. You know, yeah.
And as we, as we create better communication channels and strategies, I think that it will only get better. And I know that, you know, people that have joined us are committed to kind of our mission and vision and they really want to see us grow. So it's, you know, Yeah, I think that's the one that's the one unifying thing for most of our therapists is that we all have the same belief and and and creating these barrier free.
Places, right? So
Gordon Brewer: right, right. Yeah, that's that's yeah, I think when you particularly if you're using what I refer to as a contractor model of running a business, you really do need to make sure that you hire people that are self motivated and are, are bought into what you're doing. Because you, you've got less control over what they do and how they do it.
So, I mean, it's just, yeah,
Maureen Codispodi: exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good point.
Gordon Brewer: Yeah. Well, well, Maureen, I've got to be respectful of your time. What sort of parting thoughts might you have about all of this?
Maureen Codispodi: Yeah, I just, I, it's really, thank you for having me, Gordon. And I think you know, really what I want to say is that, you know, it's, It's never going to be perfect in creating a business is never going to be perfect in creating spaces.
I'm never going to get it perfectly right and I kind of, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with being imperfect and going for it anyways. Because I truly do believe in the, you know, mission and vision of the company and I and I really believe in creating those safe spaces for everybody, and reducing those barriers and I.
And I encourage other people to, you know, take the risk, do it, do it anyways, do the thing that you believe in even when it feels a little bit hard, trust me, some days it feels hard, but you know, I believe, yeah.
Gordon Brewer: Yes. Well tell folks how they can get in touch with you and maybe find out more about your work.
Maureen Codispodi: Yeah. So our website is helphelpclinic. ca. So helpclinic. ca. And you're very welcome to go on there. You can find our contact details on our website.
Gordon Brewer: Awesome. And we'll have a link in the show notes and the show summary. So people can find that easily. Well, Maureen, I'm so glad that you joined me on this episode.
And hopefully we'll have a conversation again here in this in the near future.