The Practice of Therapy

Jenn Uren
Hi, I'm Jen urine. And I'm with this mom knows and I am so happy to be here on the practice of therapy today. I have found that for most moms, every business yes can feel like a parenting No. And that's when our mom guilt kicks in. But when we use the right systems to focus our time, we can do both really, really well. And I think that's what we want to talk about today.

Gordon Brewer
Well, hello, everyone, and welcome again to the podcast. And I'm so happy for you all to get to know Jen urine. Jen, welcome to the podcast.

Jenn Uren
Thanks for having me.

Gordon Brewer
And Jen has a another podcast, my

Jenn Uren
mom, this mom knows his mom

Gordon Brewer
knows I wanted to stay. Mom knows best, but much time I do. But anyway, Jen, happy to have you with us. And as I start with everyone, why don't you tell folks a little bit about your journey and how you've landed where you landed?

Jenn Uren
Yeah. So um, big picture is that I am a people pleaser. And so I would say yes to everything people asked me to do. But I never got into the practice of saying no. So I just piled on thing after thing after thing. And I found myself buried with overwhelm, I was not keeping up, I was struggling. And I was really not feeling like, like I was enough. I was I was failing, it felt like on all fronts. And as a mom, I really felt that with my kids. And then I sort of had this stretch where I kept feeling like I was supposed to be getting caught up on projects. And I kept going, I just I'll do that later. I'll do that later. And then God surprised us with a, literally a surprise adoption of two babies. So I went from three kids to five kids with no preparation, no idea that we will be doing this. And I went from overwhelmed to almost broken, it was a lot. But it's sometimes when we break is when we can heal, right. And when we heal, we sometimes feel stronger than where we were coming from. So in that process, I learned a lot about relationship. I learned a lot about trauma with these two precious little babies that joined our family, the secondary trauma that it caused for our kids. But we ended up coming out of that with a whole new parenting style. I understood that one of my key relationships was with myself. And that if I wasn't nurturing the skills and gifts that I had, that I was not modeling good things for my kids, I was not taking care of myself. And so I started to lean into my own strengths, which were finding systems and figuring out how to do things well. And I kind of teamed the Pete the beast of home and got things running well again. And that led to me saying, I can help other people do this. This is what I know. And I love connecting people. So that's the heart behind this mom knows is that what I know, I can tell people what other moms know they can share. And together we've got it all covered. And so that's what I do now is I help and encourage mompreneurs help them find the systems that are going to work well for them, and help them focus their time so that they can really thrive as both mom and entrepreneur.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes, I love that. And I guess one of the things that kind of struck a chord with me is just this whole is we were talking about a little bit before we started recording is just this whole life balance kind of thing. And I think it just in our world is therapists, the people that most of the people that listen to this podcast anyway. We they hear me talk about and hear other guests talk about systems and processes. We apply those to our business and to our practices to make them run smoothly. But I think as you discovered we got to do the same thing in our home life and our, in our families and that sort of thing, particularly when we're trying to juggle either working full time or doing all the stuff that we do, do we like to do and want to do?

Jenn Uren
Absolutely, absolutely. And the thing that can be I think especially tricky sometimes for therapists because they tend to be relational is that systems are task oriented. And it can be really easy to think that that they're at odds with each other. When in reality if you find a system that works for you that works with your personality with your rhythms and routines. It's that I actually going to create space for those relationships and nurture that. And so they're not at odds they can really work together. Well,

Gordon Brewer
right. Right. Yeah. So what are some things that you've learned from, from just your experience of, you know, raising five kids and, and just this whole life work balance thing? And what you're learning from others as well? Yeah, that's a big question.

Jenn Uren
It's a really big question. Yes, well, one thing I have learned is that, while there is some truth to birth order, and things like that, each child is so different and unique. And when I came into parenting, I thought, Okay, this is how I'm going to do it with all my kids, because I am a perfectionist by nature. So it's all or nothing, and it's consistent. But kids aren't that way. And so I've had to learn to shift my perspective from their entire life to let's try this for six months, for the next six months, this is what we will do. So so that's one thing I've learned is that they're each just so different and unique, and it requires different things of me. But the other thing that I have really learned is that when you work with system with rhythms and routines, you can find things that everyone can have buy in into. And so as moms A lot of times, and even as business owners, we can be the bottleneck to a process. And if we can remove ourselves as that bottleneck and have something that works with everybody, then we have we have some things that just become automatic, they flow they happen. And it shifts a lot of burden off of us. And that lets us all enjoy time together, downtime together, or engage in that. That task of you know, doing dishes after dinner, corporately. So it's not just one person's task or responsibility. So that's the challenge, though, right? Taking all these different personalities, and then pulling them together under something that's going to work for everybody. But that's the fun of it, too.

Gordon Brewer
Right? Right. So what tips Have you got on being able to do that?

Jenn Uren
Yeah. So I think a lot of times we are in addition to being the bottleneck, sometimes we're the stumbling block, and we are our own worst enemy. And we can't see what's going on, because we're too close. So sometimes, it's helpful to sit back and become an observer, watch what's happening in your home watch, who tends to do what, how they tend to do it, the traffic patterns that helps you figure out, you know, where are we going to put the coat rack, where do we gonna keep the shoe basket, you know, if people are walking in the front door, having those by the back door doesn't make a lot of sense. So becoming an observer has been really helpful. But if you're too close to it, have someone else come in, because a fresh set of eyes can really be no pun intended eye opening, they can see things that we can't see. They notice things that we might not notice in ourselves, but in our family as well. So it's really shifting into this role of observer, I think is a helpful starting place to figure all that out.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. I guess one of the things that I'm reminded of is just the importance of, of being able to, to reach out for support. Yeah. Because I think, you know, I think in, in one of the previous episodes, I talked about the importance of having supports and, you know, being part of like things like mastermind groups and have a colleagues that you that you can rely on to be just vulnerable with and to talk to about things. And I love that idea of having just a fresh set of eyes coming in and seeing something that can be I think we can we can have things so close, and I'm holding my hands up in front of my face real close, but have things so close that, like you said, can't can't see the forest for the trees. Yeah. Because we're just so close to it.

Jenn Uren
Yes, yes. Yeah. And I love that idea of asking for help, too, because sometimes there's things that we don't mind doing at all, and someone else hates and we can swap. I remember when my firstborn was a baby, I had a friend who loved laundry, don't ask me why, but she loved laundry. And she'd pick up my laundry and do it. That was her gift to me for about six weeks when the baby was little. And so there's things like that she's like, I'm already doing my own what's twice the load? So you can you can find people that you can ask for help from but you can swap you can say I am good at this and you're good in that. So let's help each other out here and offload some things.

Gordon Brewer
Yeah, I love that. I love that. So what what are some other things that you feel like Just thinking about those of us that have busy lives and being able to, to kind of get a handle on the overwhelm,

Jenn Uren
yeah, well, it's it's our, it's our time, it's our things and it's our thoughts are really the three things that consume us and, and define all of it. And so I actually just recorded today and I'll be launching in October, the then episode on the 8020 rule, and how that is really this, how we want to use that, to give margin boundaries and space in our life, so that we have the capacity to say yes to the unexpected, we have the capacity to think and create, we have the capacity for something new to come into our space, without it bursting at the seams are overwhelming us. And that overwhelm is when we don't take the time to purge, you know, purge our time, take off the things that that don't belong there or delegate to someone else, when we don't take the time to purge our space and get rid of the things that we no longer need use or enjoy, or even purge our thoughts and say, I'm going to, I'm going to have, I'm going to put a stop to what I'm watching because that's consuming my my thoughts. I'm obsessed right now with this show or something, or even just saying, I'm going to take time to do a brain dump. So I don't have to think about it, and I can focus, but a lot of overwhelm. Is because we're beyond capacity. And we don't have that space.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, yes, I love that. I love the idea to have the brain dump. Because I think a lot of times what happens is is gets our mental space, and just even our physical space gets so cluttered that we lose sight of what's really important, what really matters to us. Being able to kind of I have this, I use this metaphor a lot with clients is, is that if you can imagine your, your maybe your garage packed to the ceiling with just stuff. And you're you've got the task of of clearing out that garage and organizing it well. What you have to do is just pull everything out of it. And we'll take it one piece at a time and decide what to do with it. And so I think that there is you were talking about doing a brain dump that was kind of the metaphor that came to mind for me thinking about trying to trying to get hold of get a handle on the brain. Yeah. Yeah, all this stuff. Yeah, yeah.

Jenn Uren
And when we get to that point, that's when we can start to really focus on what we're doing, whether it is spending time with our family, or doing business related stuff. And I think that's what gives us that sense of a lot of people call the work life balance. But really, it's an integration, because you know, it's never going to be perfectly imbalanced. But we've got to figure out how to make them fit. And some seasons are going to fit better than others. And some seasons, you're going to do more of one than the other. But when we can focus and use our time, well, we feel like it's going well. And that's what gives us that sense that that all is is balanced and integrated.

Gordon Brewer
Right. Right. I love that. So tell tell folks a little bit more about this mom knows and how that came to be for you and how you develop that whole concept.

Jenn Uren
Yeah, well, thanks. It's kind of a process. I, I thought I wanted to be a blogger. And I tried writing but I also discovered that I am not self motivated. I am externally motivated. So the moment anybody else said hey, can you do this for me, I would drop my deadline because my deadline didn't matter. And I would do what they wanted me to do. And so I got to thinking about that and I thought well, I still am a connector I I love to relational, I'd love to talk to people. And so I flipped it and I said let's do a podcast. And and that I discovered works well because if I tell you your episode is going to drop on November 3, it is going to drop on November 3, and I will have so that that was good, but I have enjoyed talking with with these other moms. And what I started to discover was when I was broadly talking to moms about things they knew, I began to see a thread coming through that a lot of what moms knew they've they've had a hobby that they've turned into a business or they they started they met a need and that turned into my focus then on actually mompreneurs because they're different from work at home moms who have an external employer. They're different from work working moms who go away every day, they're usually moms who are not necessarily sitting down with, you know, eight to four hours, you know, 8am to 4pm, they might be I have an hour and a half, I'm doing this, and then I'm on with the kids with this thing. And then I'm back to work doing this kind of thing. And so it's a different, it's a different type of lifestyle. And it requires a different approach when it comes to, to getting things of home and work running smoothly. Right. So that's kind of how it all came about. It's it's been a progression from just moms in general to focus in on mompreneurs. And helping them do both things. Well,

Gordon Brewer
yes, yes, I like I like the way you conceptualize that it's a, again, is something I have, in the past talk with clients about just my therapy clients about that, that kind of that dichotomy of we want to put things into kind of either or categories, you know, it's like either either either have to focus on my work, or I've got to focus on family, and they're not really linked. But in reality, it's not an either or proposition. It's a both and, yes, they are late and that there is overlap. Yes. And that sort of thing. Yeah.

Jenn Uren
Yeah. And moms especially, I mean, no offense to the dads, but moms brains do not turn off from these things. We're constantly thinking through our kids logistics and all this other stuff. And so there's, there's a mental burden on moms, that just isn't quite there the same way on most dads. And that, that means there's never a true separation. So the more you can make things run smoothly, so you can focus, especially when you're a mom, the better it is for you when it comes to being productive at work and not dropping the balls that you want to make sure don't get dropped.

Gordon Brewer
Right, right. So so what are what are some tips that maybe you have for helping somebody began to, I guess, maybe either conceptualize or begin kind of making these changes that you're talking about?

Jenn Uren
Yeah. So I think the first thing is, you want to like I had said before, just be an observer, watch what's going on, start to study some of the rhythms and the routines that happen in your home naturally, so that you can leverage what's already happening. That would be one one thing to start with the other would be kind of think through what is it that you spend more time and energy avoiding that if you just did it, it would be done? For a lot of people as laundry? For some people, it's meal planning. For some people, it's it's, you know, Bill pain, and then start to say, what is it that I don't like, Is there something we can do so with Bill pain, it might be that you can get everything fairly automated, so all you have to do is download and reconcile and go, okay, it's taken care of, I didn't have to log in and do all this stuff. For meal planning. I hate to cook, but I cook every night for my family, because I figured out how to make it all work for me. I use an instant pot. And a lot of days, you'll find that I have prepped dinner, when I make breakfast, and it's sitting there on a delay start. So when Dinner is ready, I show up with everyone else because it's going to cook itself. Once I figured out some things like that, it, it really flipped some things around, I didn't avoid dinner prep the way I used to, because it was done, I had a plan. So that that's a big part of it, too, is having a plan and sharing it with your family so that they understand what's going on, and pulling them in wherever they can, when it's age appropriate. If they say, Hey, we're out of you know, I don't know laundry detergent, add it to the list, make it their responsibility to add it to the list and not yours. And so just just these little things to pull other people in so that you're not modeling. And then and this is important. Try it for a little while, and then reassess and figure out, is it working? And if it's not quite working, it might just be that it needs a tweak, it doesn't need an overhaul. So figure out what's the little tweak that you need to make. Because when a system works for you, it does the work but when we're trying to work a system, and it's not natural, it's not it's gonna fall apart. It's It's too much effort,

Gordon Brewer
right? Yeah, it's a sub matter of instead of the business running you you run the business. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I love that. So, yeah, so one of the things that you mentioned, I think is a lot of his would maybe fall under the category of setting boundaries and learning to say no to things.

Jenn Uren
Yes, yes. And that, so we talk about this concept of our plate, right? My Plate is full. But what we don't talk about often is, how big is our plate? How strong is our plate? Do we like our food to touch? Do we like it piled up? What kind of you no margin Do we need around there? And so when we can understand that, it starts to give us a framework through which we can say yes or no. And I actually have a resource called your best Yes. It's it's a process of figuring out what are your priorities? So that you can say yes to the things that you want to say yes to and no to everything else. And, and that's the thing we have to practice. We are a lot of people say practice saying no, I think we have to practice saying yes, because we want to practice saying yes to the right things and not everything. And so therefore, we are practicing saying no, but it's not. It doesn't have to be a negative, it can be a positive, because now we're doing the things that matter. And that fit and not the things that people asked us to do.

Gordon Brewer
Right. Right. I love that. Yeah. So Jen, I want to be respectful of your time. But tell folks more about how they can get in touch with you and get get their hands on some of these resources.

Jenn Uren
Sure. Absolutely. So my website is this mom knows that calm. And if you're interested in that best yes filter. It's this mom knows that calm slash, yes. Very simple. My podcast, you can find it that same website, this mom knows that calm slash podcast, and you'll find all the episodes are there. I drop an episode every Tuesday. And yeah, and I, I'm on social media, I'm on Instagram, I love to connect with people. So if anybody listening is like, you know, I'd like to know a little bit more about, you know, how I can figure out a system or whatever, please feel free to, you know, connect with me through the website, or through any of my social media accounts that you'll find there as well.

Gordon Brewer
Oh, awesome, man. We'll be sure to have links in the show notes and show summary. So people can access everything on here. Well, well, Jan, it's been great to have this conversation. And I'm sure we'll be talking again, I was checking out your website before we started and a lot of great resources there and I think it will resonate with a lot of folks that are listening.

Jenn Uren
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Gordon Brewer
Yes, quiet. Glad to and hope would do it again. Thank you.