The Practice of Therapy

Gordon: Well, hello everyone, and welcome again to the podcast and I'm happy for you to get to know today, Kristie Plantinga. Hi, Christy. How glad you're here.
Kristie: Yeah, me
Gordon: too. Thank you for having me. Yes. And so I think this is going to be a really interesting topic for folks, just thinking about Google and SEO and AI and all of that.
And so as I start with everyone, Christy, why don't you tell folks a little bit more about yourself and how you've landed where you've landed.
Kristie: Yeah. So years ago, even before college, I think as many of the listeners can relate to, I'm sure I was in the, you're a good listener, old soul to therapist pipeline.
So I was definitely headed down that path. That's what I studied in college. Only my intention to go down that route. But in the last semester, I just didn't feel like I was ready to help anyone to be totally honest. And I think I lost some of the excitement I had for the field, but I've always had a passion for mental health.
Obviously that hasn't gone away. So I took some time off kind of figuring out what's next after, you know, I thought that I was going in this direction and I stumbled upon writing and marketing and website design. So I started working in the field. Was working at an SEO agency specifically at the time.
I caught the entrepreneurial bug as listeners, I'm sure. Well, and I knew that I didn't want to be a generalist. I wanted to work with, you know, a certain population. And, you know, after a second of thought was therapists, of course, you know, this, this is, I was just so sure that this is exactly the spot that I was meant to be in to connect the skills, you know, that I developed with the passion that I have for the field.
So 2019 I started therapy SEO and SEO as a field has grown so much, even since when I started in the therapy world. So. SEO for therapists according to some of my SEO tools was searched, I think 40 times a month. And now it's over 150, you know, just in the last couple of years. So it's absolutely exploded, which is great.
I'm really happy that therapists are taking advantage of search engines as a tool to market their practice. But yeah, here now we're more, you know, full spectrum kind of marketing agency with websites and Google ads. But we got our start in SEO.
Gordon: Yeah, yeah, I know as we were talking before we started recording you're noticing some changes in Google and particularly with AI it's just causing things to change pretty rapidly.
I think just you know, it's it's interesting because I'm sure you're familiar with it. Canva been using Canva a lot with helping a friend. You know, build a, build their e commerce site, you know, getting their graphics and stuff with that. It's got an AI feature now, which is just incredible to produce stuff.
But anyway, as we tatted, what are the trends that you're seeing? And what is it that you. Are noticing.
Yeah.
Kristie: So, I mean, I think everyone has experienced it at some point with the tools that they use in their business for a lot of them they have this kind of AI component or AI add on. And I think, you know, it's changing society at large so of course it's going to affect.
digital marketing. So I think a few years ago when I started, there are a lot of little kinds of tricks that SEO professionals use that I was doing at the time. And they're not unethical by any means, but they were more kind of technical than they were necessarily about you know, the quality of a website or, you know, even really good link building, which I can get into a little bit.
So essentially on Google alone, the standards are rising. So I think therapists could get away with a little bit less in the last few years, because again, you know, 40 searches, 250 searches per month, obviously the competition has risen. So this is a huge driving factor. You know, and how SEO is done.
And I think Google's just making a lot of changes to what the search entry results look like. Because I think for a long time, Google didn't really have a competitor. They were kind of the, the only option for people or the only one that people knew about when they were trying to get information online.
But people can use chat GPT now, right. And you can ask for. Trip itineraries or restaurant recommendations. People are also using Tik TOK, you know, as a search engine now too. So the, the way that people are even searching is changing. And so Google is of course, panicking a little bit and being like, I make all my money from Google ads.
So how am I going to make my search engine still really compelling? And Google has used AI in their search engine results since like 2015, I think but now because the technology has. improved so rapidly. I think they're playing catch up a little bit. So I think what it all really comes down to at this point for any industry, but also this is something that therapists need to really internalize.
Is the quality of content that they're putting out. There's definitely none of this, you know, 500 word blog post because someone said that you should post a blog post once a week. It's not going to help you instead focusing on making a piece very high quality. And not necessarily in the sense that it's this really long thought out piece, but that it really matches.
what people want from that keyword. So thinking a little bit more critically instead of, you know, do I have trauma quiz instead of writing this whole thing, make a quiz. You know, so people can jump to it and take it. So I think being more thoughtful and creative with the type of content we're putting out, whether that be AI assisted Canva graphics or even AI assisted video, I'm seeing more of using chat GPT to build HTML tables, like all this really creative stuff which is a little bit more advanced.
So it'll take some skill building, you know? So that's. I think the first part and then the second part is more about link building, but I don't know if you want to maybe
Gordon: discuss. Yeah, I think, I think that would be important for people to hear. And certainly something I'm I'm, I'm fascinated by. So maybe tell folks a little bit what you mean by the link building and what, what you're learning.
Kristie: Yeah. So, We're kind of doing the shift in the services that we're offering away from more of those kind of tips and tricks like I was talking about a few years ago. And now we're doing a lot more services that focus on the individual reputation of a therapist. So there's this acronym EEAT stands for Experience, Expertise, Authority and Trust.
And there are certain signals. That Google understands that communicates those things to them, really high quality content within the content, talking about your specific experience with certain things. So not, you know, these are the forms of trauma therapy that work well. It's in my experience. These are the ones that I start with.
These are the ones that I'll shift if it's not working, being really personal with the stuff that you're pointing out because that content is unique. You know, other journalists who are. You know, not mental health professionals, but they, you know, talk about this stuff in the field and not they get paid by, you know, very well mind or whoever just to kind of put out this blog content.
They can't compete with the therapist in terms of experience. Right. So really leaning into that expertise. Choose a niche. You know, I think that's so really powerful. Even if you see different types,
choose a niche. So even if you see different types of clients, focusing on one to really market yourself with, I think is the key. You know, lots of therapists like to see different types of people, but to start making a name for yourself. Showing Google that, you know, you have that expertise, choose something specific to market yourself with authority, getting your name featured on, you know, major publications.
That's essentially PR, public relations. So that's almost replaced link building. There's just kind of public relations, I think, is a better way to think about it. And then trust, and trust takes time to build, right? You can't kind of splash onto the scene and expect Google to trust you and your website in a month.
That often takes time, but doing all those other things builds up that trust with Google. So if someone needed a framework, that EEAT, That is the direction that I would point people
Gordon: to. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a, one of the things that I've learned and just building and being involved in building my own website for my practice.
And then also for, for this podcast, the practice of therapy, it's Really figuring out what are the search terms that people are going to use. And, you know, how do they, how do they, if they're trying to solve a problem, how do they think about it in their head and how would they type it in? And that's that's you know, maybe AI can help with that.
Because it, you know, kind of, it's, it's learning itself all along. Yeah.
Kristie: Yeah. It's based on feedback. Right. Mm-Hmm. . So, and I think we'll see, I don't know if you've messed around chat GPT at all, have you? Mm-Hmm. .
Gordon: Oh yeah. Use a mat every day. Interesting. Right? Yeah. Or using ride every day interaction with it.
Yeah. Uhhuh .
Kristie: Yeah. You, you have the interaction with it and you can tell it what's working and what's not. So in the future, I think we're gonna see, I've seen it a little bit on Google. It's definitely more present on Bing because Microsoft is an, in an investor in open ai, which is, you know, the creator of Chat gt.
Mm-Hmm. . It'll ask for feedback on the search engine results page. So that could be a good thing if you're being more creative and you're really taking the time to think, is this what people want when they are searching? This that could be beneficial to you, or it could be the opposite. If you know, like this wasn't helpful at all, really, you know, like I could have gotten some information somewhere else.
Wasn't very unique. I should have checked Reddit. I should have checked Tik TOK. You know, this is something to think about is how you can really create the best piece of content for something. Google certainly favoring the larger companies now, unfortunately, but I think really good content and building up your personal reputation online can still land you where you want to be on Google, but it just takes more effort now than it has in the past.
Gordon: Right, right. Yeah. Yeah, this is this is fascinating stuff because it is changing. I mean, it used to be that, like you said, you know, you'd, you'd pump out a bunch of blocks and get that out there and that would help boost your SEO and having the backlinks and the internal links and all of those kinds of things, which I guess are still important, aren't they?
Yeah,
Kristie: I don't think that stuff has gone away. But I think it's kind of taking a different form, you know, so obviously still blog that's important internally link throughout your site. Absolutely. I think what's probably changed the most of those three categories. You know, in terms of what I've been trying to do has been the link building.
And really that's just been this switch to a PR kind of focus because that's the stuff that really stands out. That's the stuff that is more difficult to secure, right? So when Google wants to see who's the best of the best. To rank for this keyword. It's like, well, this therapist has been featured on HuffPost, New York Times, Forbes.
I think I want them farther up than this other person who really doesn't have anyone, you know, verifying them in that way. Cause like a backlink is essentially social proof, but like, that's really how that is. So if you don't have any really high quality social proof and your competitor does, we all know how that's going to turn out.
Gordon: Right. Right. So, yeah, so as, as we move forward with AI, what are, what are maybe some tips you can give around the best use of that and how we can use it to our advantage to help market our practices and, and also, you know, just being, get our rankings up with with the SEO.
Kristie: Yeah, and I think this is the same advice I would give anyone who's wondering where AI really fits into their life, even because I do think it's, you know, going to, it's taking the world by storm and I don't think that's slowing down anytime soon.
It's Yeah, it's advancing so rapidly. I don't even think I think in three years, we'll look back and laugh at the how limited it was now. Yeah. I really believe that. So I think the people who are going to come out on top in terms of how they use AI are going to be the people who really treat it like a robot.
What can this tool automate to free up my mind for more advanced things, right? So if you're writing a blog post and in this blog post, you want to quick address the symptoms of anxiety. Don't read those by, you know, offhand, like you don't need to obviously verify anything chat GPD spits out. You can just click save or the, you know, major symptoms of anxiety, it'll tell you, you can paste it, reword it a bit and you're good to go.
So anything you feel comfortable kind of offloading, you know, to a robot, I think that's the kind of thing. It's really just. It's freeing up your mental energy and your creativity to be, to do more advanced things. I think it's where people are going to experience the most benefit from,
Gordon: right? Right. Yeah.
And I, as you said to with chat GPT, you need to go in and clean it up and make sure it makes sense and that the, the stuff that's cited there is accurate and that kind of thing. So, yeah. So, well, Christy, what are the other things that you are working on and really feel are important right now, given kind of the environment with with AI and all of that?
Kristie: Yeah. Yeah. I think I've just been doing so much thinking on what's going to actually work for therapists now, because I think, especially, you know, in the digital marketing world, don't just anticipate change, expect it, count on it. This is. If you're doing digital marketing, it will change, so you need to prepare for that, I think, logistically, but also kind of mentally.
So, definitely trying to encourage my audience and my clients to build up a little bit of the, the fortitude, you know, that this is the stress you kind of took on. when you started your practice. So digital marketing and you don't have to, you know, like there are other forms of marketing. But if you're doing this, this is kind of what you have to prepare for.
But I think in the future, I know that certain things aren't going away. One, I think is Google ads. I think that will become a more and more valuable service for therapists. It's definitely more expensive than SEO in the short or in the longterm. Absolutely. But we know that it's not going away because that's how Google, one of the biggest companies in the world is making money, right?
They're going to be very, very protective of that. So I don't see that going away. Obviously there's still value to building up your network, I think is a really big one. I do think SEO but I would say it is not for as many people as it used to be because it's more challenging. It takes a lot more grit.
It takes a lot more time, takes more effort, takes more resources. And if you're not, you know, up for that, that's totally okay. But just, yeah, I think twice before you take it on. I still really believe in it, but I know that it's really frustrating for some
Gordon: people at this point. Right, right. And I think part of what you're speaking to is is don't be afraid to outsource those tasks because I've, I've learned so many times the hard way is, is that I got jump into something thinking, Oh, Oh, I can learn how to do this.
And I, you know, end up spending just an inordinate amount of time to where my time could have been better used in other ways. And that's when you need to outsource. Yeah.
Kristie: Yeah. And I think relying on professionals, but also making sure that they're offering you up to date services. I think that is more important than ever because Yeah, I don't think all companies do seriously audit their services because they're like, oh, it's selling, you know, but is it actually working still?
That's a whole other, whole other question. So I'm definitely with you on relying professionals, even if it is, you know, you know, coaching or classes or whatever, but just make sure that that information is up to date. And I still think directories are really good way to go. That's one of the reasons we started one best therapist, because, you know, me and my team, we saw this kind of.
Division that we're seeing, I think, also in the real world in society, where the people who have more, the bigger companies, the mental directories, they have more, they have more resources, they're going to start doing better on Google, smaller businesses with less. If they're gonna struggle a bit more and it's, you know, Mm-Hmm.
been this whole existential crisis, you know, amongst my team and stuff. But that's the way it's going, which is why, again, I don't advise it for everyone. So we were thinking how can someone get the same effect, like of being on Google in the sense that someone is seeing their face when they're Mm-Hmm.
on the first page of Google. Yeah. But then they don't have to put in all that time and the effort and instead we would have done that once for a bunch of people. So again, I like ran smack dab into a directory, nothing, nothing novel, you know, but right. We do is we only feature three to six therapists on a page.
So instead of this like huge thousands of people shuffled randomized results, you can, you know, have confidence that this is where. You're showing so right that's the direction that we're taking with that, and it's definitely not whatever else is doing and it's more selective. But I think that this is one of those things that therapists can still count on is directories.
Just, I think doing audit of like, which one is working, if you're making an ROI once a quarter, probably we're staying on, you know? So I think those are the ones that I would continue to, you know, really with, even with all these changes with AI, those four things I think I mentioned are a good way to go and social media, like Tik TOK and stuff, but.
Right,
Gordon: right. Yeah. And I think for me, the big take home point there is just simply know where your know where your referrals are coming from and being able to, to track that in a meaningful way. Yeah. And then, and then put your, you know, once you figure that out is then put your efforts into building out on whatever platform that is because you know that that is kind of somewhat some degree has been validated already.
Kristie: Yeah. I think double down on what's working. You know, it's like how in the stock market, investors will often invest more when things are down. I think that's an opportunity for therapists where maybe it's, you know, a down season right now in therapy a bit. But we know it's going to go back up.
Right. So what's working and not just maybe with, you know, time and money, but also innovating, you know, maybe don't keep doing the same thing you've been doing maybe. Other accounts that you feel are more kind of advanced in these things and try some of the things that they're doing. So I think getting creative is really Those are the people that are going to continue to benefit, you know, because if you don't have a big budget, like some of these huge, you know, mental health apps you can still make it, but you just have to be like a little smarter, a little more detailed than they probably can be.
Right. Yeah, I don't know if that
Gordon: makes sense. Yeah, it does kind of giving more of a personal touch with people.
Kristie: Yep. The experience, you know, the first E of the EAT.
Gordon: Very true. Well, Christy, I have to be respectful of your time. What sort of closing thoughts would you have around this topic?
Kristie: Yeah, I know it's such a big topic, but I think the, the recommendation that I'm giving a lot of, you know, therapists and coaches, consultants at this time is just be very honest with yourself about what you feel like you can take on.
And that, you know, knowing that part of that decision is what amount of turbulence am I tolerant of not just today, five years you know, if you invest in digital marketing, like I said before, don't, you know, expect change count on it. And some platforms are just more turbulent than others. So if that's something that.
You really struggle with maybe think about doing something that's a little bit more predictable which might be more expensive, like Google ads you know, social media can be free in many ways for therapists Google ads is not, but we know that it's not going anywhere. And we know that it hasn't changed that much in the last five years.
So yeah, I think those are the recommendation. The main thing that I would like people to reflect on is how much am I willing to take on in, in this space, knowing that it is possible. Absolutely. But is are certain things the right thing for me?
Gordon: Right, right. Yeah. I love that advice. So, well, Christy tell folks how they can get in touch with you and find out more about what you're doing and all of that sort of thing.
Kristie: Yeah. So you can just head to my website, therapy, seo. com. We have a blog. If you want to start learning this stuff on your own, you can learn more about our services, what we're offering at this time. And you can check out the directory. That we're working on best therapists. com. Learn more about the verification process.
We have, you know, what the site looks like in comparison to other directories. Those are the two main ways right now.
Gordon: All right. All right. Well, we'll have some links in the show notes and that sort of thing to help people connect with you, Christy. I really enjoyed our conversation and this is the future is going to be different for sure.
It sure is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Well, take care. I hope we can have another conversation soon. Yeah. Thank
Kristie: you, Gordon.